last unicorn
Blue Crack Addict
The operation wasn't an operation, it was a biopsy to find out what was wrong with Bono's voice. They found out he had allergies that caused the swelling and he got medication.
U2 playing in higher keys
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Peterrrrr
New Yorker
I think Bono is better now then ever in the emotional singing, just look at the performence of SYCMIOYO(time 3:05 to 4:00), he voice is so sad, how he moves his hands head...
YouTube - U2 Sometimes you can't make it on your own Live form Mlian
Streets begining on Slane
YouTube - U2 Where The Streets Have No Name Live At Slane Castle
He has a more sad sound in his voice, and he does work more with his voice these days. There is no way that Bono could express that emotion(the two links above) in the 80/90s.
These days the Wide Awake part seems so easy for him to hit, he hit the high C alot on the Vertigo tour. The thing is that he sang the Wide Awake part three times in the song in most of the versions on that tour.
DevilsShoes
War Child
Ah, so the ear, nose and throat operation he had isn't an operation, but a biopsy, is that right?
Although I'm certain I read somewhere he had some kind of procedure done on his vocal chords to resolve the swelling he had there. But I could be wrong
last unicorn
Blue Crack Addict
I don't know. Actually, I don't feel comfortable discussing this issue, because it's Bono's private stuff. We really cannot know for sure what kind of medical procedure he has been going through, but as far as I know and have heard and read he only had a biopsy, not a real surgery. The swelling was caused by allergies and went away after he got medication. Allergies can also affect your voice to a point where you totally lose it. I have a similar condition, just not on my vocal cords, but swellings can often be caused by all kinds of allergies and if you take the right medication, it helps.
DevilsShoes
War Child
You're right actually, debating the ups and downs of Bono's voice is fine, but I think this is probing too deeply, best if I leave this thread alone.
U2DMfan
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
I am a big fan of tone, as far as I'm concerned for a rock singer it's the only thing that matters. Bono has a sweet spot in his voice where he will probably always sound great but he struggles mightily in some respects over the last 16 years. Range doesn't really mean a fuck to me, when I say Bono has lost something in his voice, I couldn't care less that he can't hit the C# in Bad or the C in Red Hill (which he couldn't even hit for the JT tour), I'm talking about the quality of the notes he does sing. It's just been miserable at times over the last 15 years (dating back to ZooTv). But that's fine, I'm not griping about it, I'm illustrating the point. I'll gripe about some of those studio takes though...!!
And furthermore to that point, I don't care that he struggles in concert, it's to be expected and to some extent he has and most singers do struggle live. WHat bothers me is the studio voice has taken a real sour turn. It just cannot be denied. Especially mid to lower, most definitely lower.
With all due respect to Peter, I think he's fixated on ranges and 'highest notes'. Those high notes occur maybe 2-3 times a show. They aren't indicative of anything really. I've said it before, Miss Sarajevo is the finest example of the Bono voice debate around here the last few years. He hits a strong beautiful 'A' on "Laaaaaaaaamooooouuurrrrrrrrrrr" (however you spell it) yet he just butchers the verses. I don't like to say it, it's just true.
Whatever he's lost in tone is mostly gone and not coming back because most of this happened before POP and has continued and gotten a little worse over time. He can surely strengthen his voice and it will be stronger on some nights than others but when he's in the studio, supposedly with his best voice, he'll never have the powerful tone he once had. I think most accept this, what I hope is that he 'brings it' on the RECORD! That is, for me, the record is where it counts the most. The fact that the album takes have suffered, it just leads me to conclude that part of it is surely gone. Live...well you can make exucses for that.
Now, to define what I'm talking about so people who don't fully understand aren't confused. Gery used the term 'tone' to describe the notes being sung, so I'll define it in this context I'm using.
If you walk up to a properly tuned piano and play the highest A-note on the keys and then if you walked up to a different properly tuned piano and hit the same A-note, the difference between the sounds of two notes is the tone.
Assuming that these are properly tuned, they are playing the same exact note, the difference to your ears is the tone. You could play the same note on a guitar, it's the same note, the difference is tone. So that's roughly the idea. It's how that note sounds to your ear.
The argument could be subjective because different voices, guitars, any instrument sounds more pleasurable to some than it does to others. In Bono's case, I don't think this can be argued very well but we'll see if Peter takes that route.
A good example of this on the most recent album. The intro to Miracle Drug.
If you don't hear the weakness of the tone in his voice as compared to what it once was, you are fooling yourself. He does the same thing in all the concerts, he's got smokers' pipes. Whatever his medical conditions are, if he wasn't a smoker, he'd probably have a better tone to his voice than he currently does. It wouldn't restore his voice as much as merely help it.
He does still have a great 'sweet spot' though and when he sings that big "SAY IT'S TRUE!!!!" in NYD, it almost always sounds great. The worst moment is that pile of shit vocal on In A Little While and worse is his excuse for that piece of drivel. He also breaks voice in 'Stateless' which I'm sure was left in intentionally but being a big fan of a clean clear tone, i don't like it as much. In fact, I loathe that one second of that great song. He has many highlights where his voice still sounds great, mostly it's all in that comfrtable range. I don't think he'll ever lose that part of his voice. Thank God.
Granted, I like fucking shit like thrash metal and hardcore punk where the singers have brutal tone. U2 is my favorite fucking band and to hear Bono fucking off on Womanfish (for one example) and the absolute power and force of that beautiful voice was almost always good, he could have sang the phone book and won me over. That particular tone has been dead and will continue to be, which does break my heart a bit. Just don't try and tell me that he hasn't lost some of it, that's all. It begs for people to point out that this is idea is ludicrous. PETER! I'm looking at you!!!
Lastly, what I would like is for Bono to carry a fresh voice into the studio on this new album and at least try and go for great vocal takes. Don't cop out to fuckign 'hangover' song excuses (for one example). PUH-LEASE!! That's irritating to say the least. Vertigo sounds great, he's still got the ability to sound brilliant, no doubt, it's just hit and miss at other spots. He'd also probably be helped with some reverb rather than that dry, raspy voice we've heard on somne of the songs of the last two abums. All that does is accentuate the disparity between his voice now and what it once was. I know that was sort of the idea though. Raw voice.
When he's 'on', he's my favorite voice. He still has it when it counts (largely) but the last thing I'll say and I don't want to just seem negative but he has got to learn that he's not a soul singer. He's stylistically accentuating the drop off in tone by the way he sings (In A Little While, I'm looking at you and about 10 other songs!!!!!!!!) Seriously. This is one of his biggest problems.
Delivery. He should have barked 'All Because of You' like his pants were on fire, instead the whimpering whispered double track of a man sitting on a couch. It just 'sounds' lazy. It does not help. I can give more example of this, I just think he's always wanted to be Al Green or Marvin Gaye and he's an irish rock singer and the quicker he ditches that other voice, the better.
I'll also try and return tomorrow with more of what I love about his voice just to be fair.
ultraviolet92
War Child
i completely agree with you U2mdfan i think bonos voice has become weaker in tone and it is not coming back anytime soon but i agree with peter that his range and high notes are back and better than ever but hes lacking the tone he had in Uf, Jt tour, lt tour, you could even tell he was losing his tone on the zootv tour.....
ultraviolet92
War Child
in a little while was sung at 4 in the morning and bono wanted that sound in his voice and it suits the song
Rob33
Rock n' Roll Doggie
U2DMfan....well said...but like you said, tone is subjective....and many people prefer the tone now to the tone of the early days...and many fans don't care as much about timbre as they do range...so it's all about personal preference really, when we're talking about the "best" era for Bono's voice overall....
Have you heard Union Chapel?
That was one of the most encouraging performances from Bono in the past 15 years....he seemed to be combining the technical superiority and the great range of his newer voice with the timbre and smoother tone of his older voice - and I hope this carries into the new record...Danny's "Bono is singing like a bird" quotes lead me to believe it will
But lets focus on the most recent U2 (Bono/Edge) performance. I honestly prefer the Union Chapel voice to any other era for Bono, and I think the tone of his voice during that show is just about as smooth and as beautiful as it was 20 years ago.
The key will be if he can sustain this level of singing while on tour and throughout the album....if he is able to then I'd be willing to say that this is one of the best, if not the best, eras for Bono in terms of his vocals.
On a less important note, I agree entirely with ultraviolet- Bono wanted that sound you hear on the record. Now, given your said interest in primarily timbre and tone of one's voice, I am not the slightest bit surprised that you cannot stand the vocal in this song, but understand that whether or not you like that "sound," that style of singing gives the song that certain feel that the band was going for, and in my opinion, makes the song. I love it.
Have you heard Union Chapel?
That was one of the most encouraging performances from Bono in the past 15 years....he seemed to be combining the technical superiority and the great range of his newer voice with the timbre and smoother tone of his older voice - and I hope this carries into the new record...Danny's "Bono is singing like a bird" quotes lead me to believe it will
But lets focus on the most recent U2 (Bono/Edge) performance. I honestly prefer the Union Chapel voice to any other era for Bono, and I think the tone of his voice during that show is just about as smooth and as beautiful as it was 20 years ago.
The key will be if he can sustain this level of singing while on tour and throughout the album....if he is able to then I'd be willing to say that this is one of the best, if not the best, eras for Bono in terms of his vocals.
On a less important note, I agree entirely with ultraviolet- Bono wanted that sound you hear on the record. Now, given your said interest in primarily timbre and tone of one's voice, I am not the slightest bit surprised that you cannot stand the vocal in this song, but understand that whether or not you like that "sound," that style of singing gives the song that certain feel that the band was going for, and in my opinion, makes the song. I love it.
I think the difference is (certainly in ZooTV era) that he is singing with better technique. He is using his breathing to sing certain aspects of songs rather than his throat and I think this is part of the reason why is tone has changed. In the 80's he uses a lot of 'full throat' singing to create a certain 'loudness' and 'deepness' to his singing. By the 90's he using more falsetto and 'breathy voice' singing, putting less strain on his throat.
I would imagine he has chosen to switch styles for the better rather than the worse. Sometimes he slips into his 'throat' singing every now and again, and he is certainly capable of some 80's tone, but I think he doesn't like to sing in that voice for the sake of his voice in the future.
I think the full throat singing in the 80's was part of his voice destruction as much as we love to like it.
I would imagine he has chosen to switch styles for the better rather than the worse. Sometimes he slips into his 'throat' singing every now and again, and he is certainly capable of some 80's tone, but I think he doesn't like to sing in that voice for the sake of his voice in the future.
I think the full throat singing in the 80's was part of his voice destruction as much as we love to like it.
The raspyness and the thinner sound on tour and records is just the price he's payed for the smoking and that relentless screaming in the 80's. I can see how IALW is grating for some, but I think it works for that song, and that lyric.
I only had a problem with 3 deliveries so far: I still haven't found... (over the top drama "opera" vocals), Velvet dress (Zoo TV Bono would handle that song much better) and Miracle Drug (he's done "big" vocals better in the last decade than this).
He recovered the ability of the high notes on the last album/tour, and it will be interesting how he will sing once he adapts to it (a la UF compared to JT) - maybe the Islington recording is a hint. I like this current - El. Storm and onwards - tone it feels more healthy than the cracking ATYCLB (he may say it's intentional) or the "helium" Pop Bono. And presumably now he knows a bit more about technique than he did in his 20s. He can get good takes in the studio but I wonder if the band, and him especially, would consider shorter tour legs or longer breaks in between tour legs to preserve his live voice. (consider his last leg of Vertigo compared to most of the rest of the tour)
I only had a problem with 3 deliveries so far: I still haven't found... (over the top drama "opera" vocals), Velvet dress (Zoo TV Bono would handle that song much better) and Miracle Drug (he's done "big" vocals better in the last decade than this).
He recovered the ability of the high notes on the last album/tour, and it will be interesting how he will sing once he adapts to it (a la UF compared to JT) - maybe the Islington recording is a hint. I like this current - El. Storm and onwards - tone it feels more healthy than the cracking ATYCLB (he may say it's intentional) or the "helium" Pop Bono. And presumably now he knows a bit more about technique than he did in his 20s. He can get good takes in the studio but I wonder if the band, and him especially, would consider shorter tour legs or longer breaks in between tour legs to preserve his live voice. (consider his last leg of Vertigo compared to most of the rest of the tour)
Peterrrrr
New Yorker
I am a big fan of tone, as far as I'm concerned for a rock singer it's the only thing that matters. Bono has a sweet spot in his voice where he will probably always sound great but he struggles mightily in some respects over the last 16 years. Range doesn't really mean a fuck to me, when I say Bono has lost something in his voice, I couldn't care less that he can't hit the C# in Bad or the C in Red Hill (which he couldn't even hit for the JT tour), I'm talking about the quality of the notes he does sing. It's just been miserable at times over the last 15 years (dating back to ZooTv). But that's fine, I'm not griping about it, I'm illustrating the point. I'll gripe about some of those studio takes though...!!
And furthermore to that point, I don't care that he struggles in concert, it's to be expected and to some extent he has and most singers do struggle live. WHat bothers me is the studio voice has taken a real sour turn. It just cannot be denied. Especially mid to lower, most definitely lower.
With all due respect to Peter, I think he's fixated on ranges and 'highest notes'. Those high notes occur maybe 2-3 times a show. They aren't indicative of anything really. I've said it before, Miss Sarajevo is the finest example of the Bono voice debate around here the last few years. He hits a strong beautiful 'A' on "Laaaaaaaaamooooouuurrrrrrrrrrr" (however you spell it) yet he just butchers the verses. I don't like to say it, it's just true.
Whatever he's lost in tone is mostly gone and not coming back because most of this happened before POP and has continued and gotten a little worse over time. He can surely strengthen his voice and it will be stronger on some nights than others but when he's in the studio, supposedly with his best voice, he'll never have the powerful tone he once had. I think most accept this, what I hope is that he 'brings it' on the RECORD! That is, for me, the record is where it counts the most. The fact that the album takes have suffered, it just leads me to conclude that part of it is surely gone. Live...well you can make exucses for that.
Now, to define what I'm talking about so people who don't fully understand aren't confused. Gery used the term 'tone' to describe the notes being sung, so I'll define it in this context I'm using.
If you walk up to a properly tuned piano and play the highest A-note on the keys and then if you walked up to a different properly tuned piano and hit the same A-note, the difference between the sounds of two notes is the tone.
Assuming that these are properly tuned, they are playing the same exact note, the difference to your ears is the tone. You could play the same note on a guitar, it's the same note, the difference is tone. So that's roughly the idea. It's how that note sounds to your ear.
The argument could be subjective because different voices, guitars, any instrument sounds more pleasurable to some than it does to others. In Bono's case, I don't think this can be argued very well but we'll see if Peter takes that route.
A good example of this on the most recent album. The intro to Miracle Drug.
If you don't hear the weakness of the tone in his voice as compared to what it once was, you are fooling yourself. He does the same thing in all the concerts, he's got smokers' pipes. Whatever his medical conditions are, if he wasn't a smoker, he'd probably have a better tone to his voice than he currently does. It wouldn't restore his voice as much as merely help it.
He does still have a great 'sweet spot' though and when he sings that big "SAY IT'S TRUE!!!!" in NYD, it almost always sounds great. The worst moment is that pile of shit vocal on In A Little While and worse is his excuse for that piece of drivel. He also breaks voice in 'Stateless' which I'm sure was left in intentionally but being a big fan of a clean clear tone, i don't like it as much. In fact, I loathe that one second of that great song. He has many highlights where his voice still sounds great, mostly it's all in that comfrtable range. I don't think he'll ever lose that part of his voice. Thank God.
Granted, I like fucking shit like thrash metal and hardcore punk where the singers have brutal tone. U2 is my favorite fucking band and to hear Bono fucking off on Womanfish (for one example) and the absolute power and force of that beautiful voice was almost always good, he could have sang the phone book and won me over. That particular tone has been dead and will continue to be, which does break my heart a bit. Just don't try and tell me that he hasn't lost some of it, that's all. It begs for people to point out that this is idea is ludicrous. PETER! I'm looking at you!!!
Lastly, what I would like is for Bono to carry a fresh voice into the studio on this new album and at least try and go for great vocal takes. Don't cop out to fuckign 'hangover' song excuses (for one example). PUH-LEASE!! That's irritating to say the least. Vertigo sounds great, he's still got the ability to sound brilliant, no doubt, it's just hit and miss at other spots. He'd also probably be helped with some reverb rather than that dry, raspy voice we've heard on somne of the songs of the last two abums. All that does is accentuate the disparity between his voice now and what it once was. I know that was sort of the idea though. Raw voice.
When he's 'on', he's my favorite voice. He still has it when it counts (largely) but the last thing I'll say and I don't want to just seem negative but he has got to learn that he's not a soul singer. He's stylistically accentuating the drop off in tone by the way he sings (In A Little While, I'm looking at you and about 10 other songs!!!!!!!!) Seriously. This is one of his biggest problems.
Delivery. He should have barked 'All Because of You' like his pants were on fire, instead the whimpering whispered double track of a man sitting on a couch. It just 'sounds' lazy. It does not help. I can give more example of this, I just think he's always wanted to be Al Green or Marvin Gaye and he's an irish rock singer and the quicker he ditches that other voice, the better.
I'll also try and return tomorrow with more of what I love about his voice just to be fair.
Range does matter to me, but it inst all.
He has lost some things in his lower, I agree about that. WOWY and MD, but I know that he can do better then that on these two songs. Just listen to A Dying Sailor To His Shipmates", that is his most deepest vocals ever, even deeper than Wild Irish Rose from 89. He could use more of that sound.
About the Womanfish, well he still got the power. Just take Desire for an example:
On this file: www.send space.com/file/6slepv
, there is five snippets on the verse "Oh sister I cant let you go" from five different version in this order
1.Studio version
2.LT
3.ZooTV
4.Elevation
5.Union chapel
Wich version got the strongest "LET you go"? Easy, Union chapel!
Much more raw sound.Another example that he still got the scream power is the Rock N Roll ****** snippets from Vertigo tour, Kids from 2006, Highway to hell snippet on Vertigo and the Union chapel version of Desire.
But here is one difference between Bono now and back in the 80/90's. Bono know these days WHEN he SHOULD use it. What I mean by that is for an example a note like "Wide Awake". That note should be hit with a normal voice to make it sound as it best. On the JT/LT/ZooTV(non falsettos ones) he hadnt the power in his real voice to hit the note, instead he overscreamed it and it went booring. Just take this version for an example:
YouTube - Rare U2 Bono Bad Live 1987 Dublin Wide Awake
4:05 to 4:35 in the clip he overscreams the Wide Awake, hey e yeah... It dosnt sound good.
Listen to this version from Vertigo tour:
www.send space.com/file/48uw7r
He hits the note without screaming it, it sound much better. Also by saying that "he knows WHEN he SHOULD" is that in the 80's he did scream the notes in almost every song. Wich made it less intressting, you knew that he was going to scream in almost every song. These days he use it sometimes wich makes in more specialyy, imagine him singing Opera on every song, wouldnt be that intressting anymore? He is also smart enough not to use it all the time, because we all know what happend to the voice if he do that.
Marien
Refugee
Peterrr, I don't know anything technically about music, but I'm a phonetician and, fortunately, I agree with you that Bono's voice is much better now than it was in the past, especially during Popmart and ATYCLB, I can remember the first time I listened to Mofo, I thought "Oh, my God!", it was a very difficult moment, and I will always think they should have stopped the tour. I started to hear some improvement before Bomb in some live performances of The Hands that built America, he's learnt how to breath and how to project his voice without hurting his vocal chords, smoking isn't a good habit for anyone, but it's not the responsible of his vocal problems, at least not the main one, lack of instruction previous to become a proffessional singer is, and, of course, some voices are more fragile than others, he has sung in so many gigs with a laringitis instead of suspending them, that if you think about it, it's not so surprising he ended up with mayor problems.
To be fair I have to say U2DMfan is also right when he says that the tone of his voice has changed, it is especially felt when he sings low notes, he has recovered most of his tonality (the voice colour) but not completely, and that is something that may not happen....ever (but who knows, he's recovered so much...). I hope they can afford some longer stops from leg to leg in the next tour, I think it will be the best for him.
To be fair I have to say U2DMfan is also right when he says that the tone of his voice has changed, it is especially felt when he sings low notes, he has recovered most of his tonality (the voice colour) but not completely, and that is something that may not happen....ever (but who knows, he's recovered so much...). I hope they can afford some longer stops from leg to leg in the next tour, I think it will be the best for him.
