U2 doesn't deserve the Video Vanguard Award

[PopFly]

I already posted this in the tour forum, but I wanted to get more opinions here.

U2 is slated to recieve MTV's Video Vanguard Award at the upcoming MTV Video Awards. I'm going to be totally blunt here: I don't think U2 deserves it. If I'm to understand the concept of the VVA, it's to reward those musicians and/or video directors whose videos have been extremely influential and creative. My memory is a bit spotty, but I think that past winners include Michael Jackson (the man that revolutionized the genre) and the Beastie Boys (another long history of creative and funny videos). One of the directors to win it was Mark Ralston, who has been making quality videos for the likes of Madonna nd Fiona Apple for ten years. In truth, I don't think U2 deserves to be in this company. The vast majority of U2 videos fall into the 'okay' category. Videos like Walk On, New Year's Day, With or Without You, are basically just the band standing there and playing. They have made a handful of excellent videos (Staring at the Sun, Mysterious Ways, Stay, Desire, Numb) but there have also been just as many bombs (ISHFWILF, Please, Elevation Last Night on Earth, the first One video, and the abominable Discotheque). This is basically a .500 record, and while that's great in baseball, it's pretty average in the music video industry.

I realize that I'm putting too much thought into a friggin' MTV award, and while it is nice to see U2 be recognized, I would rather it be for their music rather than their videos.

By the way, has Spike Jonze won this award yet? If not, it's a disgrace.


------------------
They want you to be Jesus
They'll go down on one knee
But they'll want their money back
If you're alive at thirty-three
And you're turning tricks
With your crucifix
You're a star

"I can't watch a man sing a song. He gets all emotional, he starts swaying...it's embarrassing!" -- Jerry Seinfeld

 

[z edge]

You really need to stay off the mushrooms

[This message has been edited by z edge (edited 09-01-2001).]

 

[DrTeeth]

Well his post started OK but after he called the video for Please a bad one, I kinda lost my objective attention.

 

[mikal]

Every band has good videos and bad videos.

 

[z edge]

My only objection to hearing they would receive the award was I thought it was pretty much associated with geezers, which i refuse to look at them as such.

 

[UCLAforU2]

The Discotheque video is brilliant!!!

Am i the only one who sees this???

Argh!

 

[mikal]

Originally posted by UCLAforU2:
The Discotheque video is brilliant!!!

Am i the only one who sees this???

Argh!

I loved it too!

 

[Popmartijn]

I already replied this in the tour forum, but I wanted to get more opinions here.

Originally posted by PopFly:
In truth, I don't think U2 deserves to be in this company. The vast majority of U2 videos fall into the 'okay' category. Videos like Walk On, New Year's Day, With or Without You, are basically just the band standing there and playing.

I agree with you here. U2 has released many OK videos that aren't that spectacular/good. That's why I never understand how WOWY was the big winner at the 1987 VMA's, winning the Best Video Of The Year Award. I mean, it's a great song, but the video is just ordinary.

They have made a handful of excellent videos (Staring at the Sun, Mysterious Ways, Stay, Desire, Numb) but there have also been just as many bombs (ISHFWILF, Please, Elevation Last Night on Earth, the first One video, and the abominable Discotheque).
]

OK, here the discussion starts. I know that this is your opinion, so I will state mine. I think that certainly Elevation and LNOE are incredible videos (LNOE even more so than Elevation). For me they clearly fall in the Best U2 video category. On the other hand, SATS, MW and Desire do not belong in that category. They are just ordinary, nothing spectacular.
Please and One (Anton Corbijn versions) are also very good video's and Discotheque has some classic moments (Village People! Edge-without-a-hat!). Honorable mentions also have to go to AIWIY, HMTMKMKM, EBTTRT, maybe WTSHNN as performance video (it DID win a Grammy) and BD also has a great performance. Don't forget SIAMYCGOO (European version) and IGWSHA (I still like watching that video) and you have to acknowledge that U2 did make some very good videos.

By the way, has Spike Jonze won this award yet? If not, it's a disgrace.

I again agree. That guy has some very original ideas! I saw his videos for Fatboy Slim again today (Praise You and Weapon Of Choice) and they are so funny, original and good he certainly deserves a VVA. Didn't he also direct Beastie Boys' Sabotage?

C ya!

Marty



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People criticize me but I know it's not the end
I try to kick the truth, not just to make friends

Spearhead - People In Tha Middle

 

[doctorwho]

I agree with Dr. Teeth here: The video for "Please" is one of U2's best. I can accept people complaining about "Discotheque" (I thought the Village People parody was brilliantly hilarious, but many U2 fans and non-fans disagree) and the recent confusing "Elevation" video, but "Please" is one of U2's most eloquent and beautiful videos ever. Therefore, it's difficult to accept the original argument.

 

[Bonochick]

Originally posted by UCLAforU2:
The Discotheque video is brilliant!!!

Am i the only one who sees this???

Argh!

I love that video...especially certain shots of Bono in it!!!

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"I Can Lose Myself, You I Can't Live Without"

 

[IvanClaytonJnr]

Last Night On Earth is a great
Alternative-action-rock'n'roll-thriller

Is That right that U2 will play Stuck on VMA with inserts of Am Football - That SUCKS !

????

 

[z edge]

Ironically, I think videos like 'elevation' and 'HMTMKMKM' are among their best, so what if they are confusing. Do the rap videos with the cars, chicks, swimming pools, thongs, gold chains, and so-on make any sense? They are eye-candy and kids love them. I sort of thought the special effects of elevation gave it and edge u2 normally dosen't use, and it is good to see the change.

Nobody even mentioned 'the fly', awesome video. I really think BD is one of their best videos also.

 

[PopFly]

Okay, okay, even if you disagree with some of my personal choices as bad or good U2 videos, I still stand by my original point.

------------------
They want you to be Jesus
They'll go down on one knee
But they'll want their money back
If you're alive at thirty-three
And you're turning tricks
With your crucifix
You're a star

"I can't watch a man sing a song. He gets all emotional, he starts swaying...it's embarrassing!" -- Jerry Seinfeld

 

[UCLAforU2]

Another thing, you can also think about ZooTV and the enormous impact that has had on the relationship between music and video.

 

[dream wanderer]

I think R.E.M. was also given the honor?????

 

[OzAurora]

U2 do deserve this award, we stopped getting MTV here in Australia, years ago, but I do remember seeind the year when Michael Jackson got it, and yes he deserved it. I really do think that the film clip is such a subjective thing, is something only good when it has heaps of special effects and the like????, my fave U2 clip is ISHFWILF, I love the simple nature of this clip, the guys strolling through the bright lights of Las Vegas, Bono looking happy and drunk, dancing away- it is a great clip, but then there some artists throughout time who have created great videos for nearly every song that they have put out, such as Peter Gabriel, but I think U2 are deserved of this award, just think of All I want is you, EBTTRT, Unforgettable Fire

 

[Discoteque]

it's DEFINITELY brilliant! And crazy and unusual, plus they look like they had SO much fun doing it, too. Well. Maybe 'cept sourpuss Mullen, of course.

Heh.

Originally posted by UCLAforU2:
The Discotheque video is brilliant!!!

Am i the only one who sees this???

Argh!

 

[sharky]

You have to remember though that the Vanguard Award is given for overall achievement. Place the videos U2 made within the context of what videos were like at the time and you will understand.

Back in '83, most videos showed a band playing in a studio, maybe a bit of color or special effects and that was it. New Year's Day was outside, open space and totally different than what was on MTV at that time.

WOWY won Video of the Year when most videos were from hair bands and shot live during a concert. Remember all those Bon Jovi videos?

In 2000, when all the boy bands and Britneys are choreographed and in a studio somewhere in front of lots of green screens, U2 is on a runway with planes overhead.

I believe the Vanguard Award is mainly given to bands and artists and it could always be worse. LL Cool J won it one year because of his videos were the first stylized rap videos. i.e. the first rap videos to use half naked skanky women. But at least he was revolutionary for that I guess.

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"Things will not be the same in this city for us." -Bono, Dublin, February 1980

 

[pukebreath]

Thriller isn't even a musci video. It won for its performance merits. It was a small scale dance show.

U2's videos always went against what was going on. You're gonna tell me that "With Or Without You" was not vanguard in the era of hairbands, and videos like "Talk Dirty To Me"? Think about it. Grunge landed, and videos were all about bands playing on TV, and Bono is sitting in a restaurante, smoking clove and drinking whiskey (One-Phil Jonau version). Isn't that the defintion of what he award is about? How many videos have you seen that are virtually one continuous shot like "The Sweetest Thing". That had to be totally choreographed. "Even Better Than The Real Thing" has that spinning camera effect that was way cool, and unseen at that point. The list goes on. So there you have it.

 

[SkeeK]

LEMON LEMON LEMON LEMON.

 

[mikal]

Numb and Lemon alone should win U2 the award!

 

[SkeeK]

Originally posted by mikal:
Numb and Lemon alone should win U2 the award!

damn straight!

 

[MEMHPIS-EVE 007]

Originally posted by SkeeK:
LEMON LEMON LEMON LEMON.

RIGHT ON!!!!
.. ALSO NUMB NUMB NUMB NUMB NUMB NUMB NUMB

I guess U2 had a few not so good videos along the way but most of them were pretty influential AND creative! Two of them I mentioned above also: LNOE ,Discothaque,The Fly,Elevation, Stuck, STAY ,One (U2 in Drag??? That`s not creative???) and WTSHNN.

Only by making a video like LEMON They deserve the award!!!

P.s: I`de also like to mention a few people that should be nominated for the next years- Nine inch nails, Tori Amos, REM, Manic street preachers!

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"I love you `cause I need to ,not because I need you..."
-luminous times

[This message has been edited by MEMHPIS-EVE 007 (edited 09-02-2001).]

 

[Bastardy]

fuck off all the POP videos were great

 

[SweetOnU2]

Originally posted by Bastardy:
fuck off all the POP videos were great

Yep! POP vids are the bomb!

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~*Everybody's talkin' about POP Musik!*~

(??.?(?*?.? ?.?*?)?.??)
?.???. *Monica* .???.?
(?.??(?.??* *??.?)??.)

 

[womanfish]

Yeah U2 have had some bad vids. But I think MW, Hold Me Thrill Me, Even Better, Disco, Numb, Lemon, All I Want..., One (all versions) are INCREDIBLE!

 

[Salome]

Originally posted by DrTeeth:
Well his post started OK but after he called the video for Please a bad one, I kinda lost my objective attention.

indeed

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Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

 

[~LadyLemon~]

discotheque is fucking great!!!!!!!

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BOOM-CHA

 

[tackleberry]

"I agree with you here. U2 has released many OK videos that aren't that spectacular/good. That's why I never understand how WOWY was the big winner at the 1987 VMA's, winning the Best Video Of The Year Award. I mean, it's a great song, but the video is just ordinary."

POPMARTINJ - I don't think WOWOY won best video of the year award, I believe Peter Gabriel won for SLEDGEHAMMER.

Having a good video doesen't mean just having a "good" video, it also requires a very special song to go along with it. They are like a married couple, the video and the song,and sometimes the song is strong enough to push the video foward and vice versa.

Therefore, U2 have had both of these. Some breakthrough videos such as Numb, Even Better, Sweetest Thing, and some average to good videos with very strong songs.

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"You gotta put the women and children first, but you've got an unquenchable thirst for New York..."

 

[PopFly]

As of this moment (that I can get out of), I am officially retracting my earlier statements about U2 not deserving the VVA. They deserve it for the new Stuck video ALONE. The Flys vs. the Lemons....brilliant.

------------------
They want you to be Jesus
They'll go down on one knee
But they'll want their money back
If you're alive at thirty-three
And you're turning tricks
With your crucifix
You're a star

"I can't watch a man sing a song. He gets all emotional, he starts swaying...it's embarrassing!" -- Jerry Seinfeld