The Problem of the Beach Clips

[BANZAI]

Although I really love I Believe (402), like All My Life (404) and appreciate Can't You See (400), I think the band is going a secure way to prolong their success of ATYCLB and HTDAAB. In my opinion they're not experimental enough. U2 have to find a NEW sound in the way they did a little bit with Love and Peace of Else and Fast Cars.

 

[jay canseco]

I hope some of the clips we heard were really U2 songs instead of Bono singing over someone else's music.

 

[AtomicBono]

I hope some of the clips we heard were really U2 songs instead of Bono singing over someone else's music.

the others are either U2 songs or Bono singing to Coldplay

no really, there is no way 402 and 404 aren't U2, and I'd bet money on 400 being U2 as well, and of course we already know the story of 403.

then again I would also have bet money that Bono was singing 409, though the rest of it is so different from typical U2 it was easy to believe it was someone else.

Yeah I'd like to hear U2 experiment more too, but the beach clips sound damn good to me anyway. kind of more like ATYCLB than HTDAAB, which I think is a good thing...ATYCLB has this amazing warmth to it. 402 does pull off this 90's vibe though. good stuff.

 

[Lancemc]

I'd definitely like the next album (if it doesn't come up with somthing too "new") to sound more like ATYCLB than HTDAAB. ATYCLB has, AtomicBono nailed it, a warmth to it and also a clarity. The songs are simple and aren't bogged down with poor production or a messy arrangement. I love what Danny Lanois said on the Joshua Tree documentary about that album. He said he wanted to achieve a sense of SPACE on the album, like you were literally standing in the middle of the desert listening to those songs. I feel he achieved the same thing on ATYCLB as well.

I'd personally love to see Lanois/Eno produce this next album again. They simply bring out the best in the band every time the work together. My top 4 albums The Joshua Tree, ATYCLB, Achtung Baby, and The Unforgettable Fire all happen to be produced by Lanois and Eno. Yeah, they are just what the band needs to create a real "album", a cohesive and dynamic album, not just a collection of songs.

 

[Canadiens1131]

Not experimental enough?

This is still rock music. I mean, we're not going to get Gregorian chants and random synthesizers, culminating in a rich enlightenment of the mind and soul.

Maybe the soul part.

 

[nightninja56]

 

[Lancemc]

I hate when people use the word experimental with U2. Seriously, the only thing real "experimental" they ever did was Passengers, maybe zooropa to an extent. The "experimental" stuff people talk about all the time is really just "different" for the band. Definitely not "experimental" though.

 

[AtomicBono]

If U2 were truly "experimental," probably most people here would hate it and complain that they want U2 to "rock out."

 

[U2girl]

I'd personally love to see Lanois/Eno produce this next album again. They simply bring out the best in the band every time the work together. My top 4 albums The Joshua Tree, ATYCLB, Achtung Baby, and The Unforgettable Fire all happen to be produced by Lanois and Eno. Yeah, they are just what the band needs to create a real "album", a cohesive and dynamic album, not just a collection of songs.

It's true that they are their "Batman and Robin" producers, and they did do some great work together - that said, I think the band should step away from the old team for a while: Eno, Lanois, and Lillywhite (keep him at the mixing desk though). I don't think they can bring out any more new and great stuff out of the band.

I'd like to see some fresh people on board. I know, I know, they may risk another "Thomas" with it, but I really think they're risking a backlash of Rattle and Hum proportions if the new album really sounds like ATYCLB and more so Bomb.
Yes, 400 and Thank you sound like something off ATYCLB but I like 404 and in particular 402 - reminds me of the ethereal sound they had with Mercy. I sense something new in those two songs.

 

[Screwtape2]

It's true that they are their "Batman and Robin" producers, and they did do some great work together - that said, I think the band should step away from the old team for a while: Eno, Lanois, and Lillywhite (keep him at the mixing desk though). I don't think they can bring out any more new and great stuff out of the band.

I'd like to see some fresh people on board. I know, I know, they may risk another "Thomas" with it, but I really think they're risking a backlash of Rattle and Hum proportions if the new album really sounds like ATYCLB and more so Bomb.
Yes, 400 and Thank you sound like something off ATYCLB but I like 404 and in particular 402 - reminds me of the ethereal sound they had with Mercy. I sense something new in those two songs.

You make great points. IMO though the band really needs to make a cohesive album. From hearing opinions from people in this forum, the collective theme seems to be bad production. Songs like Mercy, Fast Cars and so on, how that is still making great music just not making great albums. Eno and Lanios give U2 the best chance to make anther great album. U2 is obviously on the downslide of thier career. The band needs to bring up the production and take more risks with what songs they put on thier albums.

 

[U2DMfan]

I really think they're risking a backlash of Rattle and Hum proportions if the new album really sounds like ATYCLB and more so Bomb.

It's coming. Everyone knows it.
That's a great thing for a lot of people.

Maybe some will admit it now or later, some will read some comments from Bono about X,Y,Z how Edge and Larry are angry about they are ready for rock and roll and some stuff about soul, blah blah, by 2007/2008 their egos will kick in, they'll want a record that makes a splash, they'll make ATYCLB 3 and they'll sell out every date on tour, critic reaction will be mixed and we'll be looking at about 7 years from now to know the effect. They'll be talking in the press in 2012 about how they 'lost the plot' and made another 'soul' record.

It's coming and we all know it.
Part 3. The trilogy theory lives on.

 

[U2girl]

On the other hand, are Lanois and Eno really the "secret ingredient" to a great album?

I mean, yes, they got another dimension on U2's sound with UF, but I think it's really up to the band's inspiration whether or not they will make the ellusive 3rd masterpiece. (also, the albums they worked on sound for the major part nothing alike) That is IMO, what has been (mostly) missing on the last 3 albums.

 

[Screwtape2]

It's coming. Everyone knows it.
That's a great thing for a lot of people.

Maybe some will admit it now or later, some will read some comments from Bono about X,Y,Z how Edge and Larry are angry about they are ready for rock and roll and some stuff about soul, blah blah, by 2007/2008 their egos will kick in, they'll want a record that makes a splash, they'll make ATYCLB 3 and they'll sell out every date on tour, critic reaction will be mixed and we'll be looking at about 7 years from now to know the effect. They'll be talking in the press in 2012 about how they 'lost the plot' and made another 'soul' record.

It's coming and we all know it.
Part 3. The trilogy theory lives on.

Sadly, you're probably right. The problem is that Bono walks outside and sees a beautiful day when ten or twenty years ago he would have seen El Salvador or the problems in Ireland. It is weird because alot of artists's best work comes from tragedy or pain. U2's best music often comes from pain and the band just isn't angry or in confusion/pain. Bono needs to start looking at the world again.

 

[U2girl]

I keep hoping that Rattle and Hum and the "other" album meant U2 learned their lesson about following a sound one album too far. History though, hints at the trilogies...I also hope the curve is going up and we will get the best album of this decade next.

Another dimension that has to be mentioned is Bono's lyrics. He is admiteddly the weakest link on the last 2 albums. I realise a 40 year old can't have the same themes like a 30 year old or a 20 year old, but still. The "essential" theme lyrics idea did work on some parts of the last albums (mortality/fatherhood/family are all natural topics at this time) but a tad cliche none the less, the execution.

 

[Screwtape2]

Another dimension that has to be mentioned is Bono's lyrics. He is admiteddly the weakest link on the last 2 albums. I realise a 40 year old can't have the same themes like a 30 year old or a 20 year old, but still. The "essential" theme lyrics idea did work on some parts of the last albums (mortality/fatherhood/family are all natural topics at this time) but a tad cliche none the less, the execution.

Yeah, I mean Adam's bass playing is getting better and The Edge is Edge. Larry has stepped up. So it all rests on Bono. You are one hundred percent right about BIno's lyrics. There is this huge drop off from Pop and ATYCLB. Songs like ABOY, One Step Closer, Wild Honey and so on, are some examples of where Bono's lyrics fall flat. I don't know what Bono can do either.

 

[U2girl]

I don't know...I liked most of ABOY's verses (apart from the second one, not counting the "I'm not broke.." line), and OSC and Fast cars and Mercy and COBL seem to go away from the direct lyric found on most of ATYCLB or Bomb.

Interesting that we have only gotten 1 lyric off the activism in Africa. I would have thought this would be a huge topic for Bono, given he's spent... 8 years doing this big time.
If we had the desert/America and the broken heart dominating their best albums, maybe a corrupt globe next?

 

[Screwtape2]

Why doesn't the band do an album with the location being Africa literally, poetically and metaphorically.

 

[POP-ROMANCER]

Why don't they go to another place for recording the album, like Berlin in 1990 where they did a lot of inspiration for Achtung Baby?

Sarajevo or something. When Bono gets out of the studio he sees a lot of pain and problems, instead of a dive in the sea.

I also think the next album will be the 3rd with the same 'sound', and I love to see U2 would be making music like Love and Peace or Else, just that sound on the whole album.

 

[doctorwho]

Although I really love I Believe (402), like All My Life (404) and appreciate Can't You See (400), I think the band is going a secure way to prolong their success of ATYCLB and HTDAAB. In my opinion they're not experimental enough. U2 have to find a NEW sound in the way they did a little bit with Love and Peace of Else and Fast Cars.

What the?

I wrote almost this same comment in another thread (copycat!)and all I got was a from people.

I fully agree with you. However, I also recognize that these songs are probably still being worked on and may not ever be used. This contrasts the beach clips in 2004, when it was clear we were hearing snippets from the upcoming album.

So even though I fully agree with you, there is still hope that U2 can pull off more songs like L&P, FC and even "Vertigo".

 

[guill]

Why don't they go to another place for recording the album, like Berlin in 1990 where they did a lot of inspiration for Achtung Baby?

They are going to spend 3 weeks in Australia/New-Zealand, they can start to record some songs there and finish them in Dublin.

 

[Salome]

I don't think U2 have to find a new sound at all

I think they just have to write good songs and let the sound follow these songs

when they go the other way about we're probably looking forward to a bit of a hit and miss affair


personally I wouldn't mind a sound close to ATYCLB because it works well for the sort of songs the band is writing lately IMO

 

[IrishDawg]

Yeah, I mean Adam's bass playing is getting better and The Edge is Edge. Larry has stepped up. So it all rests on Bono. You are one hundred percent right about BIno's lyrics. There is this huge drop off from Pop and ATYCLB. Songs like ABOY, One Step Closer, Wild Honey and so on, are some examples of where Bono's lyrics fall flat. I don't know what Bono can do either.

I agree, those 3 songs have horrible lyrics, but I think Mercy is probably the best song that they've done lyrically. Ever. I think if he went in that direction we'd get some great songs. The whole thing with Mercy is that it sounds dark, and that Bono is singing about something that seems to be giving him a lot of pain. That's what made Achtung Baby great.

 

[stargift]

On most albums there are usually only 2 or 3 'experimental' songs out of 9-12 songs. We have only heard 3 and don't even know if they will be on the album or what the other 6-9 will sound like. I think some are getting worried over nothing.

 

[Layton]

Sadly, you're probably right. The problem is that Bono walks outside and sees a beautiful day when ten or twenty years ago he would have seen El Salvador or the problems in Ireland. It is weird because alot of artists's best work comes from tragedy or pain. U2's best music often comes from pain and the band just isn't angry or in confusion/pain. Bono needs to start looking at the world again.

Who wants to live their whole life in anger, confusion and pain? It seems that the last 2 albums have been preoccupied with the journey from those places into something other. It might be the most profound journey they've taken their work on.

I think that Bono has realized that addressing and combating the tragedies within oneself is the blueprint for addressing and combating more macro level tragedies. In other words, how can you expect warring nations/ideas to 'come together' if you can't even get your own house in order.

There's a true hypocrosy when artists bitch about all the problems in the world and then either go home but remain distant from their family or just don't go home at all. Yet it's not just artists. It's anybody who focuses on the macro instead of the micro.

Maybe it's your workaholic dad who's gone 12 hours a day and then comes home to do a few more hours of work. All the while, the emotional health of the family around him deteriorates. I think Bono is that guy and he knows it. It bothers and consumes him. He's realized that one of the world's biggest problems is guys like him.

Guys who say all kinds of big and mighty things about how the world should be as the little piece of the world they actually own falls apart around them. The world is made up of all of our families tiny kingdoms. If each one of those were put together better, the world on a larger level might take care of itself. Maybe that's the most profound thing a man can say about the world. All of that might make HTDAAB their most thematically sound album ever.

 

[ntalwar]

Not experimental enough?
This is still rock music.

I thought one, and possibly two, of the four songs did not qualify as rock music after I heard them. And I'm still having trouble visualizing a live performance of these songs, except for 402 and 404. E.g. in 400 - we hear "oh oh oh" for around 30+ seconds at the end.

 

[tuwie]

Latyon: very well said. that made me think

 

[mofo82]

Who wants to live their whole life in anger, confusion and pain? It seems that the last 2 albums have been preoccupied with the journey from those places into something other. It might be the most profound journey they've taken their work on.

I think that Bono has realized that addressing and combating the tragedies within oneself is the blueprint for addressing and combating more macro level tragedies. In other words, how can you expect warring nations/ideas to 'come together' if you can't even get your own house in order.

There's a true hypocrosy when artists bitch about all the problems in the world and then either go home but remain distant from their family or just don't go home at all. Yet it's not just artists. It's anybody who focuses on the macro instead of the micro.

Maybe it's your workaholic dad who's gone 12 hours a day and then comes home to do a few more hours of work. All the while, the emotional health of the family around him deteriorates. I think Bono is that guy and he knows it. It bothers and consumes him. He's realized that one of the world's biggest problems is guys like him.

Guys who say all kinds of big and mighty things about how the world should be as the little piece of the world they actually own falls apart around them. The world is made up of all of our families tiny kingdoms. If each one of those were put together better, the world on a larger level might take care of itself. Maybe that's the most profound thing a man can say about the world. All of that might make HTDAAB their most thematically sound album ever.

Great, Great post Layton. Even though we aren't on the exact topic of the thread, Layton has hit on something that I have rarely seen anyone mention on this forum- the transformation, or parallels, of the chaos in the wrold around us in relation to the smaller scale of problems in our lives. Bono's history of traveling around the world and visiting such large scale problem areas have helped him draw similarities to the large scale problems in his own life.

HTDAAB is almost Bono calling himself out to recognize his largest problems in his own life while drawing the urgency of a worldly crisis as the foundation of that album. If I'm not mistaken, How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb was based of of blueprints of how to make an atomic bomb, possibly even being titled 'How to Build an Atomic Bomb'. Later, Bono said that the atomic bomb in his life was his father, hence 'How to Dismantle an Atomic Bob'. Bono's attention to the problems he sees are almost addictions to him, so much so he can write amazing songs that parallel completely different situations and never mention by name what these problems are.

As Layton said, it is this depth of thought in Bono's life and work as a lyricist/ musician that make his art so profound, keeping himself from being one of the hypocrites. I agree, this idea makes HTDAAB one of their most thematically sound albums, and it is in this theme that U2 IS EXPERIMENTING up to their last release.

 

[U2girl]

Bomb is a reaction to losing control in his own life after his father's death as well as a comment on the world after 9/11.

 

[Screwtape2]

I agree, those 3 songs have horrible lyrics, but I think Mercy is probably the best song that they've done lyrically. Ever. I think if he went in that direction we'd get some great songs. The whole thing with Mercy is that it sounds dark, and that Bono is singing about something that seems to be giving him a lot of pain. That's what made Achtung Baby great.

I love Mercy too. I thought the album could be darker and have that Mercy feel to it until I heard the beach clips. These songs aren't reflective of the album to come but I still would have liked to have heard an indication of a new sound. Personally, I'm always hoping for the band to address personal demons. Come to think of it that sounds really bad, less beautiful days and more demons. I'm a horrible person.

 

[The John Tree]

Interesting.

I agree with the threadstarter but disagree with a lot of other comments made in this thread.

To me, HTDAAB is superior to ATYCLB. I know that's sacrilege to most of you, but to me it's true.

While I agree that both albums carry the same "sound", it seems to me like HTDAAB is edgier, darker and more intense. But hey, I'm a HTDAAB lover. To me, it's the album I listen to second-most (the first being, of course, Achtung Baby, the greatest album ever recorded).

I also agree in the Trilogy theory. And I can see it happening yet again. And I guess I wouldn't mind that. I love ATYCLB, I really love HTDAAB because they have GOOD SONGS. And if this band writes GOOD SONGS, then I don't really care what the musical style is so long as the songs are quality.

The problem I have with these beach clips is that I would have loved all 4 of these songs if they had come out in the year 2000.

These clips don't sound like HTDAAB. They're not dancey. They're not so hard hitting. They're not gritty. They're not even "rock" oriented. They're pop songs. Which is fine. But it sounds very ATYCLB.

And what's wrong with that? Nothing.

Except for the fact that it seems like for the first time in U2's career, they're actually taking a step backwards.

They've never done that before. They've stood still (a la the transition from Boy to October). And they've progressed (Rattle to Achtung), and they've even taken baby steps forward (ATYCLB to HTDAAB).

But these beach clips sound like a step backwards.



And of course, knowing U2, in 4 or 5 months, none of this talk will mean anything at all because these are early demos at best and there's no album in sight and this is a band notorious for completely altering an album's direction and sound in the matter of seconds. So, this is typical overanalyzation from another U2 fanatic. No worries. Yet.

Just my thoughts.