The Problem of the Beach Clips

[Lancemc]

I gotta disagree with just about everything you've said there John Tree. Even the Achtung Baby comment. Anyway, to me, these clips sound like a nice progression, not a step backwards.

But my real point here is about the new album's direction. I've already stated I want a more coherent, clear production, with a more consice sound. To me, HTDAAB sounds more like a fan compilation than a studio produced album like The Joshua Tree or ATYCLB. Also though, while I'd like to see the band take a more progressive rock direction like most of you wish, I'd be just as satisfied with a true pop album. I'd love to see the band make the album that ATYCLB was hinting at. Songs like Stuck in a Moment, Beautiful Day, and Wild Honey showed a new side of U2, a "pop song" side. I think these three songs are nearly perfect pop songs, the likes of which The Beatles perfected in the first half of their career.

Now, I know this is probably one of the least popular opinions around these boards, but the perfect pop album is truely a thing to behold. Look at Rubber Soul for example. To me, it's The Beatles' greatest achievement, and it's driven by expertly crafted pop masterpieces (In My Life, Nowhere Man, Drive My Car, Think For Yourself) with melodies, harmonies, and lyrics for the decade. It wasn't a rock album, but it wasn't bland cooky-cutter radio fluff either. When People talk about pop music (in it's genre meaning, not it's true definition) most of you groan. Good pop music is beautiful though. The Beach Boys, The Beatles, Elton John...all magnificent pop artists.

My point is, if U2 doesn't take the next big step to the real rock album we all know is still in them, I want to see the band make their true pop album. ATYCLB is almost perfect to me, a case example of the quintessential pop/rock album. Let's see what they can really do when they try.

 

[The John Tree]

I respect that, Lancemc.

And I don't disagree with EVERYTHING you said. Especially because it's refreshing to meet another Wild Honey lover. It gets slammed a lot around here, but I absolutely love it. What a summer tune.

And I wouldn't mind a true pop album. I'd actually be very pleased with it. But listening to these clips, i think only "All My Life" could pass for that.

I'm pushing for a shift in direction or even "the real rock album we all know is still in them."

But like you said, pop is good. I'm a fan of it. I guess I was just caught off guard and I was kind of...underwhelmed by these songs. Maybe I was expecting too much.

 

[Lancemc]

I think a lot of people are making too big a deal of these early clips. Thank You is a Daniel Lanois song, 400 sound like a very early draft of something, and 402 and 404 are still just demos, though full-band well-developed demos. When I listen to these two songs in particular I head potential, not necessarily album tracks, though 404 is probalby closest to a finished form and I wouldn't be surprised to hear something VERY similar on the album. 402 has a lot of great things about it, the guitar part, a wonderful solo, and a unique and catchy melody. With some more time to grow and develop I full believe 402 could be a huge song when released.

 

[mofo82]

The problem I have with these beach clips is that I would have loved all 4 of these songs if they had come out in the year 2000.


Except for the fact that it seems like for the first time in U2's career, they're actually taking a step backwards.

They've never done that before. They've stood still (a la the transition from Boy to October). And they've progressed (Rattle to Achtung), and they've even taken baby steps forward (ATYCLB to HTDAAB).

But these beach clips sound like a step backwards.



And of course, knowing U2, in 4 or 5 months, none of this talk will mean anything at all because these are early demos at best and there's no album in sight and this is a band notorious for completely altering an album's direction and sound in the matter of seconds. So, this is typical overanalyzation from another U2 fanatic. No worries. Yet.

Just my thoughts.

I beLIEve these songs sound like 2000/ ATYCLB because there is a great chance that there ARE from 2000/ATYCLB. There are so many leftovers there that it seems like a great way for the boys to start their next album. I'm thinking that if the hardest part for U2 to start an album up is to make those initial songs, then they must go back to older material, pick up 'all they couldnt leave behind' from previous sessions and get some opinions from a band that has some fresh air/ blood in them (the strokes, arcade fire, who knows, maybe pearl jam will give them some insights when they meet up in a few months. Geez, just imagine if PJ, who just got this great surge of energy with their latest record, could impart some of that onto U2).

Back on topic...the 2000 sound of the beach recordings shouldnt be assumed as the 'new' sound of u2. For example, wasn't COBL originally written during Pop, LAPOE for atyclb, most of zooropa for AB, so things naturally seem to carry over for u2 from album to album. Thing is, they overproduce so much you probably cant tell which songs really were from the previous album- there's probably many more that were older material that we've never heard about.

 

[doctorwho]

Interesting.

I agree with the threadstarter but disagree with a lot of other comments made in this thread.

To me, HTDAAB is superior to ATYCLB. I know that's sacrilege to most of you, but to me it's true.

While I agree that both albums carry the same "sound", it seems to me like HTDAAB is edgier, darker and more intense. But hey, I'm a HTDAAB lover. To me, it's the album I listen to second-most (the first being, of course, Achtung Baby, the greatest album ever recorded).

I also agree in the Trilogy theory. And I can see it happening yet again. And I guess I wouldn't mind that. I love ATYCLB, I really love HTDAAB because they have GOOD SONGS. And if this band writes GOOD SONGS, then I don't really care what the musical style is so long as the songs are quality.

The problem I have with these beach clips is that I would have loved all 4 of these songs if they had come out in the year 2000.

These clips don't sound like HTDAAB. They're not dancey. They're not so hard hitting. They're not gritty. They're not even "rock" oriented. They're pop songs. Which is fine. But it sounds very ATYCLB.

And what's wrong with that? Nothing.

Except for the fact that it seems like for the first time in U2's career, they're actually taking a step backwards.

They've never done that before. They've stood still (a la the transition from Boy to October). And they've progressed (Rattle to Achtung), and they've even taken baby steps forward (ATYCLB to HTDAAB).

But these beach clips sound like a step backwards.



And of course, knowing U2, in 4 or 5 months, none of this talk will mean anything at all because these are early demos at best and there's no album in sight and this is a band notorious for completely altering an album's direction and sound in the matter of seconds. So, this is typical overanalyzation from another U2 fanatic. No worries. Yet.

Just my thoughts.

I agree with almost all of this. The one exception is that I think U2 advanced just as much from ATYCLB to HTDAAB as they did with JT to R&H or "October" to "War". In each progression, the following album took on a harsher, harder sound.

But these clips are VERY reminiscent of ATYCLB. It would be as if we heard another "In God's Country" while U2 were creating AB. I don't think we'd be impressed, even if the song was very U2 and we liked it.

But I refuse to put any limitations or form any true opinions just yet. These clips are fun and I appreciate them. From what I heard, they do sound more like ATYCLB, which does disappoint me somewhat, as I expect, if anything, an expansion on that sound, not a regression back to it. But these songs could be works in progress, meant as a token single, meant as a quick release for a movie, or meant as a b-side. They may also never be released at all. I just hope, though, that U2 will continue to expand on the sounds and themes created with ATYCLB and HTDAAB. ATYCLB was already a regression of sorts, which I firmly accepted, supported and enjoyed. This was U2 exploring their past while still moving forward. Even the Beatles had done that! HTDAAB nicely advanced that sound. But if U2 return to ATYCLB again, then it's a regression of a regression. And unless they create some monster hit tunes on that album, I don't think fans will be as appreciative for another round.

 

[AtomicBono]

I gotta disagree with just about everything you've said there John Tree. Even the Achtung Baby comment. Anyway, to me, these clips sound like a nice progression, not a step backwards.

But my real point here is about the new album's direction. I've already stated I want a more coherent, clear production, with a more consice sound. To me, HTDAAB sounds more like a fan compilation than a studio produced album like The Joshua Tree or ATYCLB. Also though, while I'd like to see the band take a more progressive rock direction like most of you wish, I'd be just as satisfied with a true pop album. I'd love to see the band make the album that ATYCLB was hinting at. Songs like Stuck in a Moment, Beautiful Day, and Wild Honey showed a new side of U2, a "pop song" side. I think these three songs are nearly perfect pop songs, the likes of which The Beatles perfected in the first half of their career.

Now, I know this is probably one of the least popular opinions around these boards, but the perfect pop album is truely a thing to behold. Look at Rubber Soul for example. To me, it's The Beatles' greatest achievement, and it's driven by expertly crafted pop masterpieces (In My Life, Nowhere Man, Drive My Car, Think For Yourself) with melodies, harmonies, and lyrics for the decade. It wasn't a rock album, but it wasn't bland cooky-cutter radio fluff either. When People talk about pop music (in it's genre meaning, not it's true definition) most of you groan. Good pop music is beautiful though. The Beach Boys, The Beatles, Elton John...all magnificent pop artists.

My point is, if U2 doesn't take the next big step to the real rock album we all know is still in them, I want to see the band make their true pop album. ATYCLB is almost perfect to me, a case example of the quintessential pop/rock album. Let's see what they can really do when they try.

sorry to quote your whole post. I was going to just quote the part I agreed with, but I realized that was the whole thing

Rubber Soul is underrated man; am I the only person who would take Rubber Soul over Revolver? but that's not this thread.

HTDAAB comes across a bit disjointed to me; ATYCLB does not. I don't hate HTDAAB, not by a long shot, but I think overall ATYCLB is a better album.

Overall I think it's going to be hard to judge based on these clips alone. for one, 402 has a different feel than the other clips; it's more 90's-guitar rock while the others are more ATYCLB-popish. 404 sounds like Original of the Species expanded and with a rocked out solo (i'm not saying it's a copy of the song, just a similar Beatlesesque pop style). 403...well, that's a Lanois song, we don't know if that's going to end up on an album. I'll bet that ends up on a soundtrack or a b-side or something. For all we know, none of these songs will end up on an album, or if they do they may be in a very different state.

 

[ponkine]

There are 2 problems with Beach Clips:

1- They sound too much unoriginal, same as every single s*** they have done in the noughties

2- They simply aren't great songs, no matter the amount of make up Lanois and Eno could add.

These 2 problems were also presented on HTDAAB

I can clearly remember when I said last year that the new album were gonna be as ATYCLB and HTDAAB... many fans here wanted to kill me, but time has come for the truth

I was and I am right. The "new" album will be nothing really new at all

 

[Canadiens1131]

There are 2 problems with Beach Clips:

1- They sound too much unoriginal, same as every single s*** they have done in the noughties

2- They simply aren't great songs, no matter the amount of make up Lanois and Eno could add.

These 2 problems were also presented on HTDAAB

I can clearly remember when I said last year that the new album were gonna be as ATYCLB and HTDAAB... many fans here wanted to kill me, but time has come for the truth

I was and I am right. The "new" album will be nothing really new at all

I agree but them's fightin' words in these here parts

 

[Matthew_Page2000]

There are 2 problems with Beach Clips:

1- They sound too much unoriginal, same as every single s*** they have done in the noughties

2- They simply aren't great songs, no matter the amount of make up Lanois and Eno could add.

These 2 problems were also presented on HTDAAB

I can clearly remember when I said last year that the new album were gonna be as ATYCLB and HTDAAB... many fans here wanted to kill me, but time has come for the truth

I was and I am right. The "new" album will be nothing really new at all

Gee, Ponkine is miserable. I'm shocked. Try to find the positive in this. If the new songs sounded fresh to your ears you would have to write a positive post which would doubtless be traumatic for you.

 

[Yahweh]

This is a 4 piece band people, what do you want them to do bring in a symphony orchestra to play with them, get Edge to use more "delay" effects that I have heard people complain about in here on more then one occasion. Or do you want the band to play on the moon just to see what it sounds like? Maybe you want them to make an album while being stoned...send them some weed....I would like to know what types of bands you consider to be experimental, and I am sure some of you will say Radiohead but really they have always done things in the same tone and the structure to their music is generally always the same....but really what bands do you guys/girls consider to be so expirimental? Maybe U2 should bring in some amazon woman/men to do some tribal chants, maybe Edge should run his delay effects through a toilet bowl just to see what they sound like....

Its almost as if you want the music to come out and have sex with you or something.....I am looking forward to the new record whether people here consider it expirimental or not because music really is in a brutal place right now.

 

[Swan269]

I agree, those 3 songs have horrible lyrics, but I think Mercy is probably the best song that they've done lyrically. Ever. I think if he went in that direction we'd get some great songs. The whole thing with Mercy is that it sounds dark, and that Bono is singing about something that seems to be giving him a lot of pain. That's what made Achtung Baby great.

agreed

 

[Swan269]

There could be an album of a couple poppy sounding songs, a couple of dark songs, a couple of experimental songs......wait a second.....

 

[roy]

There are 2 problems with Beach Clips:

I can clearly remember when I said last year that the new album were gonna be as ATYCLB and HTDAAB... many fans here wanted to kill me, but time has come for the truth

I was and I am right. The "new" album will be nothing really new at all

My God, what an ego.

 

[Blue Room]

There are 2 problems with Beach Clips:

I was and I am right. The "new" album will be nothing really new at all

There are two problems with your post.

1. These are rough demos, they may not even make an album, they may not even all be U2 songs, they may not even be new songs (see the leftovers posts above).

2. How can you deduce with any type of certainty the direction of what they are doing, even basing it on these clips? They are so muffled and crap quality there is no way you can tell anything from them. In fact I would say, YOU are more than likely completely wrong and have no idea what you are even talking about. Unless you are in the studio with the band and have talked to them personally, you have NO clue at all at this point.


I'm sorry if this seems like a harsh response. But what a ridiculous comment to make with such limited information. It is absolutely amazing to me how people are picking these apart and bitching about the next album when they dont even know for sure what these clips are for, about, or if they are even all U2. The new album is at a minimum a year away, probably more. SO much is going to happen and change between now and then there is absolutely no way to deduce what its going to be like at this stage. These are FOUR CLIPS, last I checked an album has 11 to 12 tracks on it.

 

[Michael Griffiths]

Songs like...Wild Honey showed a new side of U2, a "pop song" side.

I agreed with your entire post, but you just reminded me of something I realized about 'Wild Honey'. Not only is it the "perfect pop song", but it is also lyrically brilliant. Sometimes U2 songs, even the most seemingly basic songs, have a way of surprising me. I woke up to 'Wild Honey' on the plane the other day and I felt....the otherness you feel in U2 songs. And what was it? I realized 'Wild Honey' is perhaps the first U2 song ever where the protagonist (the "I" in the song) is not a person, but a concept. In this case, it is romance personified. I realized the entire song can be interpreted as, "If you go there (initimacy), then take me (romance) with you....because it will be much, much better if you do." The line that really sums it up is, "I'll send you flowers / cut flowers for your hall / I know your garden is full, but is there sweetness at all?" It's the relationship without the spark.

That song is deceptive. And brilliant.

 

[Lancemc]

Yeah, Wild Honey is probably U2's most underrated song of all time. I think people just hear the "I was a monkey" line and automatically think it's garbage." Not only does no one really care about these lyrics (I must say your analysis is spot on ), but they can't even see the beauty in the melody and arrangment. Honestly, Bono's vocals here are perfect. He really makes the best of his raspy Elevation-era voice in this song, especially in the "I'll send you flowers" line you mentioned. Man, ATYCLB is so fucking good it still amazes me.

And AtomicBono, I seem to like you more and more every day.

 

[LemonMelon]

Yeah, Wild Honey is probably U2's most underrated song of all time. I think people just hear the "I was a monkey" line and automatically think it's garbage." Not only does no one really care about these lyrics (I must say your analysis is spot on ), but they can't even see the beauty in the melody and arrangment. Honestly, Bono's vocals here are perfect. He really makes the best of his raspy Elevation-era voice in this song, especially in the "I'll send you flowers" line you mentioned. Man, ATYCLB is so fucking good it still amazes me.

And AtomicBono, I seem to like you more and more every day.

You nailed it. All except ATYCLB being f__ing good. It's decent, but not f___ing good. Wild Honey is though.

 

[Lancemc]

Well, you're half right. It's not f___ing good. It's f___ing great.

 

[LemonMelon]

Here's something else to debate; why was Wild Honey only played a handful of times when it's one song that has adapted brilliantly to an acoustic arrangement (IE: SATS)?

 

[Screwtape2]

As someone who doesn't like Wild Honey, I would have prefered to have a song like Wild Honey that isn't on par with the rest of the album but that maintains the mood and makes the album more complete. Wild Honey is alot like The 4th of July in that the song alone may not be the best but when taken as a whole makes the album better. Lancemc, your whole argument about U2 making a complete pop album is brillant. I to your reason and intelligence. Take an album like Pet Sounds by The Beach Boys, that is praised as one of the best albums of all-time even though it doesn't have the advanced music or kick that other great albums do. The album is great because the songs bleed into a unifying sound that take a listener somewhere emotionally. That's what TJT, Achtung Baby and ATYCLB did so successfully. Your argument again was fantastic. Now if only other U2 fans could see this.

As for LemonMelon observation, I have to agree it is like the 00's version of Party Girl. It's a fun song. I think alot of people would like to see more ATYCLB songs being played live.

 

[Lancemc]

Wow Screwtape, I'm not sure I'm worthy of such compliment, but thanks anyway.

 

[AtomicBono]

Yeah, Wild Honey is probably U2's most underrated song of all time. I think people just hear the "I was a monkey" line and automatically think it's garbage." Not only does no one really care about these lyrics (I must say your analysis is spot on ), but they can't even see the beauty in the melody and arrangment. Honestly, Bono's vocals here are perfect. He really makes the best of his raspy Elevation-era voice in this song, especially in the "I'll send you flowers" line you mentioned. Man, ATYCLB is so fucking good it still amazes me.

And AtomicBono, I seem to like you more and more every day.

I like you too (omg U2 lolz), but it may just be your avatar

I agree with you on Wild Honey. I've always loved the song. It makes me happy. Perfect little pop song; fantastic melodies. What I love about this song is it doesn't sound like it's trying, it simply is. If that even makes sense. It has a carefree feeling and it's not trying to be a "big" song.

 

[The John Tree]

I don't wanna take this too far off topic, so I'll end this here:

I loved the monkey line. Specifically the way he sings the following line: "Stealing honey from a swarm of bees."

 

[Salome]

it does my heart good to read the Wild Honey comments here

I actually think a lot of the Salome sessions sounded less interesting than these beach clips
that was of course before Eno had his way with it

 

[U2girl]

Always liked Wild honey, the first time they emulated the Beatles (and later OOTS). I also wish U2 had gone all the way with the "pop" album theme of ATYCLB and that Wild honey had been followed by Summer rain and Levitate.

 

[ponkine]

Yeah, Wild Honey is probably U2's most underrated song of all time. I think people just hear the "I was a monkey" line and automatically think it's garbage." Not only does no one really care about these lyrics (I must say your analysis is spot on ), but they can't even see the beauty in the melody and arrangment. Honestly, Bono's vocals here are perfect. He really makes the best of his raspy Elevation-era voice in this song,

The "song" is nothing but a Beatles' Two Of Us rip off

Making the Bono's "perfect vocals" is quite easy a predictable: have a reunion drinks with a lot of smoke and then go to the studio and "sing" the song...

Bono's voice on that song is far from being professional, even decent. A singer MUST care about his/her voice, and Bono doesn't give a s*** about his one, he just pretend to be emotional by "singing" rough, raspy and strained in songs as Wild Honey or In A Little While. Nothing but crap.

Yes, I know he has done the same in songs as One, for example, but there's a world of different between One and Wild Honey, talking about songwriting quality, lyrics, arrangments, etc. In Wild Honey I can notice a band out of ideas, copying someone else melodies, doing pretty much nothing but jam in the studio, etc. In One I can notice a serious band, knowing what they were doing, knowing what they wanted with the song, etc, etc.

Why Am I writing all this?. Because Beach Clips are pretty the same as Wild Honey, I Mean, a band completely out of ideas, recording whatever comes to mind just because, copying themselves, lacking quality, etc

 

[AtomicBono]

The "song" is nothing but a Beatles' Two Of Us rip off

I guess I can see some similarity in the melodies, but they're not the same. It's not a "rip off."

and Salome I agree, most of the Salome sessions are pretty boring anyway. though I'd say these songs are farther along then a lot of those were.

 

[mikal]

Why Am I writing all this?. Because Beach Clips are pretty the same as Wild Honey, I Mean, a band completely out of ideas, recording whatever comes to mind just because, copying themselves, lacking quality, etc

yeah, and if U2 didn't copy themselves, you would accuse them of trying to be something they're not.

the glass is always empty with you, and we see through it. stop talking.

 

[roy]

yeah, and if U2 didn't copy themselves, you would accuse them of trying to be something they're not.

the glass is always empty with you, and we see through it. stop talking.

The guy has despised the current U2 for over six years and yet only registered in Feb 2004. He is your stereotypical, sad, self-indulgent troll.

 

[Lancemc]

Why Am I writing all this?. Because Beach Clips are pretty the same as Wild Honey, I Mean, a band completely out of ideas, recording whatever comes to mind just because, copying themselves, lacking quality, etc

Yep, I'd say that sums you up pretty well. It's the ignore list for you.