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Old 08-05-2006, 08:17 AM   #21
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I don't think U2 have to find a new sound at all

I think they just have to write good songs and let the sound follow these songs

when they go the other way about we're probably looking forward to a bit of a hit and miss affair


personally I wouldn't mind a sound close to ATYCLB because it works well for the sort of songs the band is writing lately IMO
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Old 08-05-2006, 08:33 AM   #22
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Originally posted by Screwtape2


Yeah, I mean Adam's bass playing is getting better and The Edge is Edge. Larry has stepped up. So it all rests on Bono. You are one hundred percent right about BIno's lyrics. There is this huge drop off from Pop and ATYCLB. Songs like ABOY, One Step Closer, Wild Honey and so on, are some examples of where Bono's lyrics fall flat. I don't know what Bono can do either.
I agree, those 3 songs have horrible lyrics, but I think Mercy is probably the best song that they've done lyrically. Ever. I think if he went in that direction we'd get some great songs. The whole thing with Mercy is that it sounds dark, and that Bono is singing about something that seems to be giving him a lot of pain. That's what made Achtung Baby great.
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Old 08-05-2006, 09:48 AM   #23
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On most albums there are usually only 2 or 3 'experimental' songs out of 9-12 songs. We have only heard 3 and don't even know if they will be on the album or what the other 6-9 will sound like. I think some are getting worried over nothing.
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Old 08-05-2006, 11:21 AM   #24
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Originally posted by Screwtape2


Sadly, you're probably right. The problem is that Bono walks outside and sees a beautiful day when ten or twenty years ago he would have seen El Salvador or the problems in Ireland. It is weird because alot of artists's best work comes from tragedy or pain. U2's best music often comes from pain and the band just isn't angry or in confusion/pain. Bono needs to start looking at the world again.
Who wants to live their whole life in anger, confusion and pain? It seems that the last 2 albums have been preoccupied with the journey from those places into something other. It might be the most profound journey they've taken their work on.

I think that Bono has realized that addressing and combating the tragedies within oneself is the blueprint for addressing and combating more macro level tragedies. In other words, how can you expect warring nations/ideas to 'come together' if you can't even get your own house in order.

There's a true hypocrosy when artists bitch about all the problems in the world and then either go home but remain distant from their family or just don't go home at all. Yet it's not just artists. It's anybody who focuses on the macro instead of the micro.

Maybe it's your workaholic dad who's gone 12 hours a day and then comes home to do a few more hours of work. All the while, the emotional health of the family around him deteriorates. I think Bono is that guy and he knows it. It bothers and consumes him. He's realized that one of the world's biggest problems is guys like him.

Guys who say all kinds of big and mighty things about how the world should be as the little piece of the world they actually own falls apart around them. The world is made up of all of our families tiny kingdoms. If each one of those were put together better, the world on a larger level might take care of itself. Maybe that's the most profound thing a man can say about the world. All of that might make HTDAAB their most thematically sound album ever.
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Old 08-05-2006, 11:38 AM   #25
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Not experimental enough?
This is still rock music.
I thought one, and possibly two, of the four songs did not qualify as rock music after I heard them. And I'm still having trouble visualizing a live performance of these songs, except for 402 and 404. E.g. in 400 - we hear "oh oh oh" for around 30+ seconds at the end.
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Old 08-05-2006, 11:42 AM   #26
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Latyon: very well said. that made me think
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Old 08-05-2006, 02:56 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Layton


Who wants to live their whole life in anger, confusion and pain? It seems that the last 2 albums have been preoccupied with the journey from those places into something other. It might be the most profound journey they've taken their work on.

I think that Bono has realized that addressing and combating the tragedies within oneself is the blueprint for addressing and combating more macro level tragedies. In other words, how can you expect warring nations/ideas to 'come together' if you can't even get your own house in order.

There's a true hypocrosy when artists bitch about all the problems in the world and then either go home but remain distant from their family or just don't go home at all. Yet it's not just artists. It's anybody who focuses on the macro instead of the micro.

Maybe it's your workaholic dad who's gone 12 hours a day and then comes home to do a few more hours of work. All the while, the emotional health of the family around him deteriorates. I think Bono is that guy and he knows it. It bothers and consumes him. He's realized that one of the world's biggest problems is guys like him.

Guys who say all kinds of big and mighty things about how the world should be as the little piece of the world they actually own falls apart around them. The world is made up of all of our families tiny kingdoms. If each one of those were put together better, the world on a larger level might take care of itself. Maybe that's the most profound thing a man can say about the world. All of that might make HTDAAB their most thematically sound album ever.
Great, Great post Layton. Even though we aren't on the exact topic of the thread, Layton has hit on something that I have rarely seen anyone mention on this forum- the transformation, or parallels, of the chaos in the wrold around us in relation to the smaller scale of problems in our lives. Bono's history of traveling around the world and visiting such large scale problem areas have helped him draw similarities to the large scale problems in his own life.

HTDAAB is almost Bono calling himself out to recognize his largest problems in his own life while drawing the urgency of a worldly crisis as the foundation of that album. If I'm not mistaken, How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb was based of of blueprints of how to make an atomic bomb, possibly even being titled 'How to Build an Atomic Bomb'. Later, Bono said that the atomic bomb in his life was his father, hence 'How to Dismantle an Atomic Bob'. Bono's attention to the problems he sees are almost addictions to him, so much so he can write amazing songs that parallel completely different situations and never mention by name what these problems are.

As Layton said, it is this depth of thought in Bono's life and work as a lyricist/ musician that make his art so profound, keeping himself from being one of the hypocrites. I agree, this idea makes HTDAAB one of their most thematically sound albums, and it is in this theme that U2 IS EXPERIMENTING up to their last release.
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Old 08-05-2006, 03:14 PM   #28
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Bomb is a reaction to losing control in his own life after his father's death as well as a comment on the world after 9/11.
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Old 08-05-2006, 10:30 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by IrishDawg


I agree, those 3 songs have horrible lyrics, but I think Mercy is probably the best song that they've done lyrically. Ever. I think if he went in that direction we'd get some great songs. The whole thing with Mercy is that it sounds dark, and that Bono is singing about something that seems to be giving him a lot of pain. That's what made Achtung Baby great.
I love Mercy too. I thought the album could be darker and have that Mercy feel to it until I heard the beach clips. These songs aren't reflective of the album to come but I still would have liked to have heard an indication of a new sound. Personally, I'm always hoping for the band to address personal demons. Come to think of it that sounds really bad, less beautiful days and more demons. I'm a horrible person.
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Old 08-06-2006, 01:07 AM   #30
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Interesting.

I agree with the threadstarter but disagree with a lot of other comments made in this thread.

To me, HTDAAB is superior to ATYCLB. I know that's sacrilege to most of you, but to me it's true.

While I agree that both albums carry the same "sound", it seems to me like HTDAAB is edgier, darker and more intense. But hey, I'm a HTDAAB lover. To me, it's the album I listen to second-most (the first being, of course, Achtung Baby, the greatest album ever recorded).

I also agree in the Trilogy theory. And I can see it happening yet again. And I guess I wouldn't mind that. I love ATYCLB, I really love HTDAAB because they have GOOD SONGS. And if this band writes GOOD SONGS, then I don't really care what the musical style is so long as the songs are quality.

The problem I have with these beach clips is that I would have loved all 4 of these songs if they had come out in the year 2000.

These clips don't sound like HTDAAB. They're not dancey. They're not so hard hitting. They're not gritty. They're not even "rock" oriented. They're pop songs. Which is fine. But it sounds very ATYCLB.

And what's wrong with that? Nothing.

Except for the fact that it seems like for the first time in U2's career, they're actually taking a step backwards.

They've never done that before. They've stood still (a la the transition from Boy to October). And they've progressed (Rattle to Achtung), and they've even taken baby steps forward (ATYCLB to HTDAAB).

But these beach clips sound like a step backwards.



And of course, knowing U2, in 4 or 5 months, none of this talk will mean anything at all because these are early demos at best and there's no album in sight and this is a band notorious for completely altering an album's direction and sound in the matter of seconds. So, this is typical overanalyzation from another U2 fanatic. No worries. Yet.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 08-06-2006, 01:22 AM   #31
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I gotta disagree with just about everything you've said there John Tree. Even the Achtung Baby comment. Anyway, to me, these clips sound like a nice progression, not a step backwards.

But my real point here is about the new album's direction. I've already stated I want a more coherent, clear production, with a more consice sound. To me, HTDAAB sounds more like a fan compilation than a studio produced album like The Joshua Tree or ATYCLB. Also though, while I'd like to see the band take a more progressive rock direction like most of you wish, I'd be just as satisfied with a true pop album. I'd love to see the band make the album that ATYCLB was hinting at. Songs like Stuck in a Moment, Beautiful Day, and Wild Honey showed a new side of U2, a "pop song" side. I think these three songs are nearly perfect pop songs, the likes of which The Beatles perfected in the first half of their career.

Now, I know this is probably one of the least popular opinions around these boards, but the perfect pop album is truely a thing to behold. Look at Rubber Soul for example. To me, it's The Beatles' greatest achievement, and it's driven by expertly crafted pop masterpieces (In My Life, Nowhere Man, Drive My Car, Think For Yourself) with melodies, harmonies, and lyrics for the decade. It wasn't a rock album, but it wasn't bland cooky-cutter radio fluff either. When People talk about pop music (in it's genre meaning, not it's true definition) most of you groan. Good pop music is beautiful though. The Beach Boys, The Beatles, Elton John...all magnificent pop artists.

My point is, if U2 doesn't take the next big step to the real rock album we all know is still in them, I want to see the band make their true pop album. ATYCLB is almost perfect to me, a case example of the quintessential pop/rock album. Let's see what they can really do when they try.
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Old 08-06-2006, 01:29 AM   #32
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I respect that, Lancemc.

And I don't disagree with EVERYTHING you said. Especially because it's refreshing to meet another Wild Honey lover. It gets slammed a lot around here, but I absolutely love it. What a summer tune.

And I wouldn't mind a true pop album. I'd actually be very pleased with it. But listening to these clips, i think only "All My Life" could pass for that.

I'm pushing for a shift in direction or even "the real rock album we all know is still in them."

But like you said, pop is good. I'm a fan of it. I guess I was just caught off guard and I was kind of...underwhelmed by these songs. Maybe I was expecting too much.
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Old 08-06-2006, 01:34 AM   #33
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I think a lot of people are making too big a deal of these early clips. Thank You is a Daniel Lanois song, 400 sound like a very early draft of something, and 402 and 404 are still just demos, though full-band well-developed demos. When I listen to these two songs in particular I head potential, not necessarily album tracks, though 404 is probalby closest to a finished form and I wouldn't be surprised to hear something VERY similar on the album. 402 has a lot of great things about it, the guitar part, a wonderful solo, and a unique and catchy melody. With some more time to grow and develop I full believe 402 could be a huge song when released.
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Old 08-06-2006, 02:03 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by The John Tree


The problem I have with these beach clips is that I would have loved all 4 of these songs if they had come out in the year 2000.


Except for the fact that it seems like for the first time in U2's career, they're actually taking a step backwards.

They've never done that before. They've stood still (a la the transition from Boy to October). And they've progressed (Rattle to Achtung), and they've even taken baby steps forward (ATYCLB to HTDAAB).

But these beach clips sound like a step backwards.



And of course, knowing U2, in 4 or 5 months, none of this talk will mean anything at all because these are early demos at best and there's no album in sight and this is a band notorious for completely altering an album's direction and sound in the matter of seconds. So, this is typical overanalyzation from another U2 fanatic. No worries. Yet.

Just my thoughts.
I beLIEve these songs sound like 2000/ ATYCLB because there is a great chance that there ARE from 2000/ATYCLB. There are so many leftovers there that it seems like a great way for the boys to start their next album. I'm thinking that if the hardest part for U2 to start an album up is to make those initial songs, then they must go back to older material, pick up 'all they couldnt leave behind' from previous sessions and get some opinions from a band that has some fresh air/ blood in them (the strokes, arcade fire, who knows, maybe pearl jam will give them some insights when they meet up in a few months. Geez, just imagine if PJ, who just got this great surge of energy with their latest record, could impart some of that onto U2).

Back on topic...the 2000 sound of the beach recordings shouldnt be assumed as the 'new' sound of u2. For example, wasn't COBL originally written during Pop, LAPOE for atyclb, most of zooropa for AB, so things naturally seem to carry over for u2 from album to album. Thing is, they overproduce so much you probably cant tell which songs really were from the previous album- there's probably many more that were older material that we've never heard about.
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Old 08-06-2006, 10:44 AM   #35
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Originally posted by The John Tree
Interesting.

I agree with the threadstarter but disagree with a lot of other comments made in this thread.

To me, HTDAAB is superior to ATYCLB. I know that's sacrilege to most of you, but to me it's true.

While I agree that both albums carry the same "sound", it seems to me like HTDAAB is edgier, darker and more intense. But hey, I'm a HTDAAB lover. To me, it's the album I listen to second-most (the first being, of course, Achtung Baby, the greatest album ever recorded).

I also agree in the Trilogy theory. And I can see it happening yet again. And I guess I wouldn't mind that. I love ATYCLB, I really love HTDAAB because they have GOOD SONGS. And if this band writes GOOD SONGS, then I don't really care what the musical style is so long as the songs are quality.

The problem I have with these beach clips is that I would have loved all 4 of these songs if they had come out in the year 2000.

These clips don't sound like HTDAAB. They're not dancey. They're not so hard hitting. They're not gritty. They're not even "rock" oriented. They're pop songs. Which is fine. But it sounds very ATYCLB.

And what's wrong with that? Nothing.

Except for the fact that it seems like for the first time in U2's career, they're actually taking a step backwards.

They've never done that before. They've stood still (a la the transition from Boy to October). And they've progressed (Rattle to Achtung), and they've even taken baby steps forward (ATYCLB to HTDAAB).

But these beach clips sound like a step backwards.



And of course, knowing U2, in 4 or 5 months, none of this talk will mean anything at all because these are early demos at best and there's no album in sight and this is a band notorious for completely altering an album's direction and sound in the matter of seconds. So, this is typical overanalyzation from another U2 fanatic. No worries. Yet.

Just my thoughts.
I agree with almost all of this. The one exception is that I think U2 advanced just as much from ATYCLB to HTDAAB as they did with JT to R&H or "October" to "War". In each progression, the following album took on a harsher, harder sound.

But these clips are VERY reminiscent of ATYCLB. It would be as if we heard another "In God's Country" while U2 were creating AB. I don't think we'd be impressed, even if the song was very U2 and we liked it.

But I refuse to put any limitations or form any true opinions just yet. These clips are fun and I appreciate them. From what I heard, they do sound more like ATYCLB, which does disappoint me somewhat, as I expect, if anything, an expansion on that sound, not a regression back to it. But these songs could be works in progress, meant as a token single, meant as a quick release for a movie, or meant as a b-side. They may also never be released at all. I just hope, though, that U2 will continue to expand on the sounds and themes created with ATYCLB and HTDAAB. ATYCLB was already a regression of sorts, which I firmly accepted, supported and enjoyed. This was U2 exploring their past while still moving forward. Even the Beatles had done that! HTDAAB nicely advanced that sound. But if U2 return to ATYCLB again, then it's a regression of a regression. And unless they create some monster hit tunes on that album, I don't think fans will be as appreciative for another round.
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Old 08-06-2006, 04:09 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lancemc
I gotta disagree with just about everything you've said there John Tree. Even the Achtung Baby comment. Anyway, to me, these clips sound like a nice progression, not a step backwards.

But my real point here is about the new album's direction. I've already stated I want a more coherent, clear production, with a more consice sound. To me, HTDAAB sounds more like a fan compilation than a studio produced album like The Joshua Tree or ATYCLB. Also though, while I'd like to see the band take a more progressive rock direction like most of you wish, I'd be just as satisfied with a true pop album. I'd love to see the band make the album that ATYCLB was hinting at. Songs like Stuck in a Moment, Beautiful Day, and Wild Honey showed a new side of U2, a "pop song" side. I think these three songs are nearly perfect pop songs, the likes of which The Beatles perfected in the first half of their career.

Now, I know this is probably one of the least popular opinions around these boards, but the perfect pop album is truely a thing to behold. Look at Rubber Soul for example. To me, it's The Beatles' greatest achievement, and it's driven by expertly crafted pop masterpieces (In My Life, Nowhere Man, Drive My Car, Think For Yourself) with melodies, harmonies, and lyrics for the decade. It wasn't a rock album, but it wasn't bland cooky-cutter radio fluff either. When People talk about pop music (in it's genre meaning, not it's true definition) most of you groan. Good pop music is beautiful though. The Beach Boys, The Beatles, Elton John...all magnificent pop artists.

My point is, if U2 doesn't take the next big step to the real rock album we all know is still in them, I want to see the band make their true pop album. ATYCLB is almost perfect to me, a case example of the quintessential pop/rock album. Let's see what they can really do when they try.


sorry to quote your whole post. I was going to just quote the part I agreed with, but I realized that was the whole thing

Rubber Soul is underrated man; am I the only person who would take Rubber Soul over Revolver? but that's not this thread.

HTDAAB comes across a bit disjointed to me; ATYCLB does not. I don't hate HTDAAB, not by a long shot, but I think overall ATYCLB is a better album.

Overall I think it's going to be hard to judge based on these clips alone. for one, 402 has a different feel than the other clips; it's more 90's-guitar rock while the others are more ATYCLB-popish. 404 sounds like Original of the Species expanded and with a rocked out solo (i'm not saying it's a copy of the song, just a similar Beatlesesque pop style). 403...well, that's a Lanois song, we don't know if that's going to end up on an album. I'll bet that ends up on a soundtrack or a b-side or something. For all we know, none of these songs will end up on an album, or if they do they may be in a very different state.
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Old 08-06-2006, 04:23 PM   #37
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There are 2 problems with Beach Clips:

1- They sound too much unoriginal, same as every single s*** they have done in the noughties

2- They simply aren't great songs, no matter the amount of make up Lanois and Eno could add.

These 2 problems were also presented on HTDAAB

I can clearly remember when I said last year that the new album were gonna be as ATYCLB and HTDAAB... many fans here wanted to kill me, but time has come for the truth

I was and I am right. The "new" album will be nothing really new at all
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Old 08-06-2006, 04:44 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by ponkine
There are 2 problems with Beach Clips:

1- They sound too much unoriginal, same as every single s*** they have done in the noughties

2- They simply aren't great songs, no matter the amount of make up Lanois and Eno could add.

These 2 problems were also presented on HTDAAB

I can clearly remember when I said last year that the new album were gonna be as ATYCLB and HTDAAB... many fans here wanted to kill me, but time has come for the truth

I was and I am right. The "new" album will be nothing really new at all
I agree but them's fightin' words in these here parts
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Old 08-06-2006, 05:15 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by ponkine
There are 2 problems with Beach Clips:

1- They sound too much unoriginal, same as every single s*** they have done in the noughties

2- They simply aren't great songs, no matter the amount of make up Lanois and Eno could add.

These 2 problems were also presented on HTDAAB

I can clearly remember when I said last year that the new album were gonna be as ATYCLB and HTDAAB... many fans here wanted to kill me, but time has come for the truth

I was and I am right. The "new" album will be nothing really new at all
Gee, Ponkine is miserable. I'm shocked. Try to find the positive in this. If the new songs sounded fresh to your ears you would have to write a positive post which would doubtless be traumatic for you.
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Old 08-06-2006, 05:33 PM   #40
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This is a 4 piece band people, what do you want them to do bring in a symphony orchestra to play with them, get Edge to use more "delay" effects that I have heard people complain about in here on more then one occasion. Or do you want the band to play on the moon just to see what it sounds like? Maybe you want them to make an album while being stoned...send them some weed....I would like to know what types of bands you consider to be experimental, and I am sure some of you will say Radiohead but really they have always done things in the same tone and the structure to their music is generally always the same....but really what bands do you guys/girls consider to be so expirimental? Maybe U2 should bring in some amazon woman/men to do some tribal chants, maybe Edge should run his delay effects through a toilet bowl just to see what they sound like....

Its almost as if you want the music to come out and have sex with you or something.....I am looking forward to the new record whether people here consider it expirimental or not because music really is in a brutal place right now.
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