Hmmm am unsure it's fair to say there is no way back, they are still a huge live draw over here
Songs of Experience 36 - Now with 20% fewer acronyms
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Hmmm am unsure it's fair to say there is no way back, they are still a huge live draw over here
dan_smee
ONE love, blood, life
Australia just legislated for marriage equality. I’m pretty drunk celebrating.
I’ve just listened to SOE, and so much can be applied so beautifully in this context.
Love is All We Have Left
Love is Bigger Than Anything in its Way
Get Out of Your Own Way
They are all so relevant, and I will never hear them the same way again. They have all jumped up so much higher in my album ratings, and they all mean so much to me now.
I’ve just listened to SOE, and so much can be applied so beautifully in this context.
Love is All We Have Left
Love is Bigger Than Anything in its Way
Get Out of Your Own Way
They are all so relevant, and I will never hear them the same way again. They have all jumped up so much higher in my album ratings, and they all mean so much to me now.
I'm talking about selling records, having hit singles and selling a boat load of albums.
There always gonna be huge live. Theve earned that but I've always thought u2 want to be more then that. If your just huge live then there in the Rolling Stones bracket which I don't think u2 want
Again in some respect you could say they are still selling a decent amount of albums here for their age, I mean I couldn't see the stones being in the top5 with a new album etc, if they wanted to get back to more albums I feel they would have to do what they always do in the US and kiss arse, but they won't because I honestly don't feel they are that bothered about what they sell here, it's all about America
super fly guy
New Yorker
Unfortunately I agree with every word,but they Twitter comments were just sick.
An Cat Gav
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
U2 have been unpopular/hated in the UK for a very long time. I remember being at school at the height of ZOO TV when U2 (in my opinion) were at their peak, it was still incredibly uncool to say you like U2. Bono was pretty much hated even back then and I was constantly defending them ( I gave up doing that a long time ago). The argument against them then wasn't so much about the music, just about how Bono was seen as being a real dick.
They were probably at their most popular here around Live Aid when they were still dubbed "the biggest underground band in the world", not so much criticism then.
They were probably at their most popular here around Live Aid when they were still dubbed "the biggest underground band in the world", not so much criticism then.
True enough there isn't many at their age that would still get a top 5 album. Plus what doesn't help is the music form of rock is literally breathing its last breath. No band is selling any records apart from probably Coldplay. But even they have adapted their sound to the current mainstream sound
When u watch that live aid concert, there were u2 flags everywhere. Felt like a proper u2 gig.
Can't really comment on the zoo tv era cause I was only 5 or 6 when that happened
but when I got into u2 around 2000 I was 14/15. They definitely had a resurgence with young people in that era. It was like a reinvention to a new generation really. Which I was apart of.One thing the soi release method did was introduce u2 to a younger audience. My nieces and nephews are all below the age of 16 and they all now know u2 and even know who Bono is. But the problem was it didn't get them into the band which is what atyclb did. It just brought the band to their attention. Unfortunately for the band I think that's as far as it went
OP
OP
I have a theory.
They're old now, and the youngs don't like the olds showing up on their Discmans
Discmans
blast from the past Cassette player - disc player - mini disc player- MP3 player- iPod
Scorpionac
War Child
Sounds about right... lol
ascender_RS
Refugee
They're still a massive draw though, you need to set all this against the changing context of society in terms of social media and the rise of online commenting, clickbait etc.
On the music side of things, the industry is a totally changed place now. So U2 are still massively successful, but you could easily argue that hit singles and album sales are only a very small part of that now. Most bands could only dream of selling out the number and scale of gigs that U2 still can do at a drop of a hat.
There's a group of people who would never (admit) that they listened to U2 and were very vocal about it. They still are. Its the same sort of people who will be first on the comments section of anything to do with U2 to tell the world what they think of Bono. You can substitute Bono for stories about cyclists, Apple, Coldplay etc. Anything which is very popular = uncool and bad.
You also had those people in the media, but when AB came out and Zoo TV kicked off, a lot of the R&H criticisms just disappeared because the band suddenly had a "sense of humour and poked fun at itself." Album reviews were also pretty damn good, even from some of those outlets where U2 traditionally (and still) get a rough ride. I remember Zooropa got a very good critical reception and even Pop was praised by some really unlikely reviewers.
In the same cycle, Bono famously sent the NME an axe off the back of an article he saw as a hatchet job.
Every U2 gig I've been to has been a real variety of age ranges, so new people are discovering their music all the time. Maybe not as many as previously, but I think their popularity is in pretty rude health to be honest and I suspect their album sales will be pretty damn good for acts who've been around for this long. The reviews have been pleasingly positive too. At least those who seemed to review the music rather than Bono or the iTunes release thing.
On the music side of things, the industry is a totally changed place now. So U2 are still massively successful, but you could easily argue that hit singles and album sales are only a very small part of that now. Most bands could only dream of selling out the number and scale of gigs that U2 still can do at a drop of a hat.
There's a group of people who would never (admit) that they listened to U2 and were very vocal about it. They still are. Its the same sort of people who will be first on the comments section of anything to do with U2 to tell the world what they think of Bono. You can substitute Bono for stories about cyclists, Apple, Coldplay etc. Anything which is very popular = uncool and bad.
You also had those people in the media, but when AB came out and Zoo TV kicked off, a lot of the R&H criticisms just disappeared because the band suddenly had a "sense of humour and poked fun at itself." Album reviews were also pretty damn good, even from some of those outlets where U2 traditionally (and still) get a rough ride. I remember Zooropa got a very good critical reception and even Pop was praised by some really unlikely reviewers.
In the same cycle, Bono famously sent the NME an axe off the back of an article he saw as a hatchet job.
Every U2 gig I've been to has been a real variety of age ranges, so new people are discovering their music all the time. Maybe not as many as previously, but I think their popularity is in pretty rude health to be honest and I suspect their album sales will be pretty damn good for acts who've been around for this long. The reviews have been pleasingly positive too. At least those who seemed to review the music rather than Bono or the iTunes release thing.
patternshirt170
Acrobat
People think they are unpopular or there is some envy of sorts in the UK because of his charity work?
Not.... say... perhaps because of his perceived chummy relationships with some of the most polarising and often quite repulsive politicians of our age? His Elvis/Nixon moments? V signs on the WH lawn next to George W. Bush? or hang outs with Jesse Helms, Wolfiwitz and Condi Rice etal? his "Lennon and Macca of politics" quotes towards Blair & Brown? And all of this was around the time of the Iraq war fiasco. Plus there was Live 8 and "shush don't mention the war!".
Shitty optics regardless of what he was trying to achieve deep down. It all stuck.
Maybe it was a sense of "charity/compassion fatigue" on some peoples part or... perhaps it was the time spent openly socialising with (and to many people), almost endorsing these grubby bastards at a time when they were seen as public enemies, liars and just complete shits and that has now stuck in the public's eye and isn't ever going away no matter...
Not.... say... perhaps because of his perceived chummy relationships with some of the most polarising and often quite repulsive politicians of our age? His Elvis/Nixon moments? V signs on the WH lawn next to George W. Bush? or hang outs with Jesse Helms, Wolfiwitz and Condi Rice etal? his "Lennon and Macca of politics" quotes towards Blair & Brown? And all of this was around the time of the Iraq war fiasco. Plus there was Live 8 and "shush don't mention the war!".
Shitty optics regardless of what he was trying to achieve deep down. It all stuck.
Maybe it was a sense of "charity/compassion fatigue" on some peoples part or... perhaps it was the time spent openly socialising with (and to many people), almost endorsing these grubby bastards at a time when they were seen as public enemies, liars and just complete shits and that has now stuck in the public's eye and isn't ever going away no matter...
OP
OP
U2 are wildly popular with olds. Everywhere. Most of us are olds.
They are not popular with youngs. No old band is.
The late career respect phase that they should probably be entering into was damaged by their constant pandering to the youngs, as olds, when youngs didn't give a turkey. This is where Songs of Innocence did the most damage. The Joshua Tree 30 tour probably helped here, but it didn't help all the way yet.
But the olds. The olds still love U2.
They are not popular with youngs. No old band is.
The late career respect phase that they should probably be entering into was damaged by their constant pandering to the youngs, as olds, when youngs didn't give a turkey. This is where Songs of Innocence did the most damage. The Joshua Tree 30 tour probably helped here, but it didn't help all the way yet.
But the olds. The olds still love U2.
TinKnight
Refugee
Yep. When I talk to people my age about U2 they always bring up the iPhone thing.
U2FloridaFan
New Yorker
Adam is "on fire" on this album!
U2FloridaFan
New Yorker
They are much more popular with the youngs in Europe and South America. Most of the youngs who like them in the US come from parents who are U2 fans (mine included). If they are to get any new youngs they have to release Red Flag Day. Catchiest tune on the album.
U2FloridaFan
New Yorker
Unfortunately I think a good part of U2's All That You Can't Leave Behind success was due to 9/11 and the fact that many of the songs resonated with a grieving nation (and Beautiful Day was just a happy, catchy tune). Remember the secret gig the band did from "somewhere" in London a few days after 9/11, which most of the nation saw, then the memorable performance at the Super Bowl all helped introduce the band to a younger crowd. Of course, they were only about 40 at the time, so not so "old" that a younger crowd wouldn't get into them.
So after reading the Andy Barlow article, I think it helps explain a lot with the direction or sound of U2.
They are just too busy with their lives to fully commit to recording together anymore. There's a reason why it takes years and years, they're only in the studio for a few hours a day, and it sounds like for SOE, it was all pieced together from separate recordings.
I would love for U2's next album (and maybe their last), for them to hole up in a recording studio for months and just record. No more Bono singing to Barlow, who forwards the clip to the Edge, who puts a guitar track down, and forwards it to Adam, who puts a bass part down...etc
Get in the room together and play. They did this with NLOTH, but chickened out in the end cause there weren't any "hits".
Call up Danny and Brian (or I'd be happy with Andy and Joslyn too) and give it one last hurrah!
They are just too busy with their lives to fully commit to recording together anymore. There's a reason why it takes years and years, they're only in the studio for a few hours a day, and it sounds like for SOE, it was all pieced together from separate recordings.
I would love for U2's next album (and maybe their last), for them to hole up in a recording studio for months and just record. No more Bono singing to Barlow, who forwards the clip to the Edge, who puts a guitar track down, and forwards it to Adam, who puts a bass part down...etc
Get in the room together and play. They did this with NLOTH, but chickened out in the end cause there weren't any "hits".
Call up Danny and Brian (or I'd be happy with Andy and Joslyn too) and give it one last hurrah!
super fly guy
New Yorker
::::::::::::Breaking News:::::::::::::
My vinyl deluxe album from U2.com finally arrived............but with no t shirt. Cheers guys!
My vinyl deluxe album from U2.com finally arrived............but with no t shirt. Cheers guys!
OP
OP
No.
They're not getting the youngs. Period.
The ship hath sailed.
This is the point where some young whipper snapper quotes this post and goes "but I'm a young, look at me with my war on drugs album and my avocados! I love this album!"
Or
"Hey I loved the Beatles and Zeppelin when I was a young! I had all their cassette tapes in my Song WalkMan[emoji769]"
You are the exception, not the rule.
The youngs don't like U2. Nothing is getting them to embrace U2 as one of their own. The best we can hope for is that Bono doesn't do anything overly embarrassing over the next few years so that they can move into the post popularity "the youngs respect them and shall listen to their greatest hits from time to time" phase.
Olds, however, fucking love em.
I think SOI, at least for U2, succeeded in one way: the audience in the Innocence and Experience tour were singing along to the new songs. The new songs got a reaction of familiarity with the crowd. Maybe it was the smaller scale of the crowds, with more die-hards getting into Arenas as opposed to the greater amount of Joe-public attendees at the 360 Stadium tour, but at the two 360 shows I attended, the NLOTH songs got no response. None. Dead air. You can't base a whole tour around songs no one knows, and with SOI - that tour was rooted in those songs.
And U2 *like* playing new songs. They like their audience to like them playing new songs. Yes, they want their new songs to be on the radio, they want to be relevant, they want to be part of the conversation and all that - but I feel a significant motivation for them pushing new tunes out there is to be able to play that music to a receptive audience.
And I agree - I think Bono leveraged the band's huge resurgence in popularity around the Bomb release to dig in and squeeze as much good will as he could into getting his charity work cemented. It meant sacrificing public image, and the hit he, and U2, took was huge. People don't like artists switching over to causes and politics, unless it's on behalf of someone else. U2 does well when it's speaking for Amnesty international or whatever, but this was Bono pushing his own stuff - RED, ONE, DATA, Jubilee, and all that. He shook hands with unpopular people to accomplish what he saw as a greater good, and the public might have reacted better if he was giving Bush the finger, not a handshake. Yet, it seems the pieces were all put in place to accomplish a lot of good, and have organizations in place that would continue after he and the band are gone. But while they're still here, they took a hit.
NLOTH's introduction did nothing to enddear the band back to the masses, or cure the Bono fatigue. It was just more, bigger them. Why are they on the BBC, why did they take over Letterman, why are they on the Grammys when they weren't nominated? What are they *selling*? This was the band also mis-reading one of the social changed they helped usher into existence: the whole iPod iTunes thing helped make music personal, customizable, and social. We download just the tracks we want, and even then, the remix we like. We put our albums in their own running order. We listen to out own playlists, and listen when we want. To have a band impose the old world order of : you *should* like this, so *here* it is.. that didn't work. And to follow that up with the iTunes push of SOI was also a mis-read. It could have worked - if not for the auto-download gaffe.
That's why the JT tour helped. People came to that just out of pure love for the band and their classic music. And the slow-release of singles and the album without a huge push is also allowing people to enjoy the music more at their own leisure, and choice. I think the next tour will tell the tale, depending on how many people are singing along to the new stuff.
And U2 *like* playing new songs. They like their audience to like them playing new songs. Yes, they want their new songs to be on the radio, they want to be relevant, they want to be part of the conversation and all that - but I feel a significant motivation for them pushing new tunes out there is to be able to play that music to a receptive audience.
And I agree - I think Bono leveraged the band's huge resurgence in popularity around the Bomb release to dig in and squeeze as much good will as he could into getting his charity work cemented. It meant sacrificing public image, and the hit he, and U2, took was huge. People don't like artists switching over to causes and politics, unless it's on behalf of someone else. U2 does well when it's speaking for Amnesty international or whatever, but this was Bono pushing his own stuff - RED, ONE, DATA, Jubilee, and all that. He shook hands with unpopular people to accomplish what he saw as a greater good, and the public might have reacted better if he was giving Bush the finger, not a handshake. Yet, it seems the pieces were all put in place to accomplish a lot of good, and have organizations in place that would continue after he and the band are gone. But while they're still here, they took a hit.
NLOTH's introduction did nothing to enddear the band back to the masses, or cure the Bono fatigue. It was just more, bigger them. Why are they on the BBC, why did they take over Letterman, why are they on the Grammys when they weren't nominated? What are they *selling*? This was the band also mis-reading one of the social changed they helped usher into existence: the whole iPod iTunes thing helped make music personal, customizable, and social. We download just the tracks we want, and even then, the remix we like. We put our albums in their own running order. We listen to out own playlists, and listen when we want. To have a band impose the old world order of : you *should* like this, so *here* it is.. that didn't work. And to follow that up with the iTunes push of SOI was also a mis-read. It could have worked - if not for the auto-download gaffe.
That's why the JT tour helped. People came to that just out of pure love for the band and their classic music. And the slow-release of singles and the album without a huge push is also allowing people to enjoy the music more at their own leisure, and choice. I think the next tour will tell the tale, depending on how many people are singing along to the new stuff.
Scorpionac
War Child
Yeah, this.
They aren't exactly aging gracefully. They've tried to hold onto "relevancy" for too long, instead of just making the music they want to make. I think Edge even said in the Howard Stern interview that he loves making music and he does it all the time, but he's not sure anyone else would find it interesting, so when they record an album they just try to give people what they expect from U2. Edge and Bono say things like this all the time. "No one needs a new U2 album, so the new one had better be the best U2 product ever. That's why it took five years to make."
So if no one needs a new U2 album, why don't they just write and record whatever music they damn well please? Give us something different and fresh. I mean, I'd love to hear the music Edge makes for fun, when he's not thinking about writing hits. Geez. Haven't they earned that, at this point in their career? They've got nothing to prove anymore. Okay, they reapplied for the job of biggest band in the world. And surprisingly, they got it. But no one lasts in that job, no matter how hard they try. And I still want to hear that Eno/Lanois Morocco album.
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Yeah as some have said, that ship has sailed for the youngs to come onboard.
I'm a young guy, but and I sort of got into them on my own, but with some help from a counselor at camp and my dad, but I chose to fully explore their discography. ATYLCB was the entry point, which makes sense, because they took over the world in 2000 and to a somewhat lesser extent in 2004.
One can hope they move on and just make music, but 4 year gaps or more is likely the case. SOE was a companion album and it took 3 years, so that's progress-ish.
That said, they still do want to make music together, so that's welcoming to hear.
I'm a young guy, but and I sort of got into them on my own, but with some help from a counselor at camp and my dad, but I chose to fully explore their discography. ATYLCB was the entry point, which makes sense, because they took over the world in 2000 and to a somewhat lesser extent in 2004.
One can hope they move on and just make music, but 4 year gaps or more is likely the case. SOE was a companion album and it took 3 years, so that's progress-ish.
That said, they still do want to make music together, so that's welcoming to hear.
OP
OP
This is a falsehood that gets repeated too often.
All That You Can't Leave Behind was already massive, and they had already completed two highly successful legs of the Elevation tour, before 9/11.
Beautiful Day was released almost a year before 9/11, and won 3 Grammys in February of 2001.
david
ONE love, blood, life
The other falsehood is that POP sucked.
TinKnight
Refugee
The idea that Red Flag Day, by far U2's most straight forward rock song from the album, would endear a modern audience, isn't even optimistic. It's just incorrect.
Well, they were on tour with SOI for part of it, and Bono was mending from his injuries for another part, and then finishing the tour, then the Joshua tree tour. So personal lives are one thing, but they have been very busy as a band over the last spell - just not holed up in one place. And remember, Zooropa was birthed while "busy" - but the band was more flying from the tour to the studio and back again for that one, so still together.
What I'd honestly like to see is the anti-Rubin thing. Instead of improving their song-writing-craftmanship, they should jam out an album together, like you said. Accept that much their best work had been 'sketches', and go out there and sketch.
It is, but in some version of the world, it's the song that Alternative stations would have had the least trouble playing. It's the most 'college' sounding song on the album.
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