Songs of Ascent - Part II

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Yea, true, the thoughts on how your audience is going to react will always be there. It's near impossible to not get bothered by the thought when you're making a record that will be released worldwide. So obviously, yea, U2 will have that on their mind.

Where U2's secondguessing comes into play the most is with their desire to make huge optimistic and reassuring "hits." They had a different view on hit songs back in their heyday. For God's sake, they refused to release "Treasure" on War because they thought it was too poppy! Treasure!!! "With Or Without You" wasn't even a hit song in their eyes, until others pleaded with them to release it! "One", their signature song probably, was something that happened completely by accident. It wasn't an anthem they were chasing, it just happened.

With POP, the mentality of U2 shifted. They became traditional songwriters. Only one problem, the album lacked that one huge hit. I think that's the thing that really sticks in their craw. So on ATYCLB, for the first time they aimed specifically for hit songs. For the most part, in my opinion, it worked. On Bomb they really really really tried hard...tried too hard IMO and as a result created hit songs that started to sound stale after a couple listens. On NLOTH, they set out to mix things up again, explore music, and write music for music's sake that wasn't obvious, something a bit more subtle and artistic. For the most part they succeeded, but then the secondguessing came roaring to the surface with CT, Breathe and SUC. Now, I like CT, but on this album it sounds like an afterthought. It's like if they put Sweetest Thing on the Joshua Tree. Good song, but doesn't fit. SUC...i best better leave that one alone cuz i could go all night.

What am I trying to say? That writing hit songs isn't U2's strong suit. For some artists it works. The Beatles were song writing machines, they had that knack for it. U2 doesn't. Now that doesn't mean they aren't able to produce hits, for they do have many, but it works better when the hits come to them, rather than them scrambling to come up with something that sounds like a U2 anthem.

Most of their hit songs of this decade all share a similar theme. A theme of looking on the bright side of things and standing up for yourself. They all share that optimistic feeling, the feeling that "everything is going to be alright". Is that such a bad thing? Not necessarily, but i'm pretty burnt out on the idea.

After Beautiful Day, Walk On, Stuck in a Moment, Electrical Storm, Original Of The Species, City of Blinding Lights, Window In The Skies, and future hits Crazy Tonight and Breathe............i'm ready for something else. I'm ready for a hit that isn't the same shit different color.

So yea, that's the aspect of U2 i have greivances with. The ongoing pursuit of huge optimistic sounding hit songs with an optimistic reassuring message. That's where i see the unfortunate secondguessing occuring.

I think it's always been U2 goal to write hit songs. For them; there is no distinction between popularity and art. Was The Beatle's White album an art album or a popular album? Was The Joshua Tree art or popular? U2 are engaged in the creation of art which speaks to the millions.
 
Apparently i didn't realize that MOS is being considered for a single release. To that I say kudos. That's having balls in this day and age.
 
There is no rulebook that says what is popular cannot be art. Im sure there was a time that things were considered art for the very fact that they were popular.

It seems that the fast-food generation, that sponge on their 5-minute popstars and turn on them just as quickly have eroded the good name that popular once had. Nowadays, popular means to be loved one minute for any piece of kitschy, throwaway drivel, and then discarded for the next sluttier, brain-dead pop mistress.

I see U2 trying to be popular in a different light to most. While some see it as them trying to cash in on these kids I have mentioned above, I see it as them trying to introduce some quality back into the mainstream. Teach the goldfish about longevity and how to sustain a love for art that lasts longer than the time it takes to brush your teeth
 
Apparently i didn't realize that MOS is being considered for a single release. To that I say kudos. That's having balls in this day and age.

where did you read that Oz? if it is from the thread title in this forum, that was actually an opinion that was poorly stated in the thread title
 
These days musical elitism has become popular, as in they hate anything that even is 20% popular etc.
 
These days musical elitism has become popular, as in they hate anything that even is 20% popular etc.

That's a paradox Vlad. :wink:

It can't be popular to hate popular, because in this example popular represents the majority or at least the bulk of opinion. The majority can't disaprove of the majority.

I think it's more that the spectrum has become more polar. People are either elitist and disregard anything popular, or they sponge off whatever Brit-knee says.

This is my point though, I think the last 3 U2 discs have been more about bridging the gap, make music that is of good quality, but that can be appreciated by the 'populites' and hopefully teach them a lesson in the ways of appreciating enduring quality
 
That's a paradox Vlad. :wink:

It can't be popular to hate popular, because in this example popular represents the majority or at least the bulk of opinion. The majority can't disaprove of the majority.

It isn't impossible for vast amounts of people to hold contradictory or unintelligent viewpoints........
 
That's a paradox Vlad. :wink:

It can't be popular to hate popular, because in this example popular represents the majority or at least the bulk of opinion. The majority can't disaprove of the majority.

I think it's more that the spectrum has become more polar. People are either elitist and disregard anything popular, or they sponge off whatever Brit-knee says.

This is my point though, I think the last 3 U2 discs have been more about bridging the gap, make music that is of good quality, but that can be appreciated by the 'populites' and hopefully teach them a lesson in the ways of appreciating enduring quality

Hey, i'm still learning. :wink:

But do we still want them to create music like the past 3 CDs as you described them, or do we want them to stray away from that and forget about the 'populites' or the 'pop kids' as I like to call them?
 
It isn't impossible for vast amounts of people to hold contradictory or unintelligent viewpoints........

I know that. I was saying its impossible for a majority to hate what the majority love, unless there is a good chunk of people that are loving what they are hating.

I was saying (probably fairly badly, my apologies) that the point vlad was making was dead-on, that opinions of what is good have become polar IE

Elitists <---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Populists

The middle ground was much thicker in days gone by, people could appreciate the quality in popular music. Now there is very little quality to appreciate, and this is evidenced by the fact that even the people that make music popular these days are the ones that turn on it soon afterwards and expose its lack of substance. The Heidi Montag's and lady gaga's of this world are the ones that are loved now, but next month will be hated by all of their fans, or at least the songs they sing now that are popular won't be.

My point is that, while people here complain about U2's recent propensity for making music that is all-inclusive and more popular, are ignoring the possibility that their aim is to achieve something on a much grander scale than just releasing their music. I think they are trying to change the modern dynamic of the way people interact with modern music
 
Hey, i'm still learning. :wink:

But do we still want them to create music like the past 3 CDs as you described them, or do we want them to stray away from that and forget about the 'populites' or the 'pop kids' as I like to call them?

I agree, I don't think we do.

I never said they achieved that goal! But I do believe that the band's motives stretch beyond the pursuit of wealth.

I think NLOTH was the bridge to the next pasture. Just like other triumverates in their past - War was the bridge to TUF, and can be heard in Edge's guitar work listen to Surrender or Two Hearts, then immediately to Wire and Indian Summer Sky. R&H was the bridge to AB, heard in God Part II and Acrobat. Pop was the bridge to ATYCLB, Last Night On Earth to Beautiful Day, and NLOTH will be the bridge to SOA, hopefully following the path trodden by MOS, UC and F-BB
 
I know that. I was saying its impossible for a majority to hate what the majority love, unless there is a good chunk of people that are loving what they are hating.

I was saying (probably fairly badly, my apologies) that the point vlad was making was dead-on, that opinions of what is good have become polar IE

Elitists <---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Populists

The middle ground was much thicker in days gone by, people could appreciate the quality in popular music. Now there is very little quality to appreciate, and this is evidenced by the fact that even the people that make music popular these days are the ones that turn on it soon afterwards and expose its lack of substance. The Heidi Montag's and lady gaga's of this world are the ones that are loved now, but next month will be hated by all of their fans, or at least the songs they sing now that are popular won't be.

My point is that, while people here complain about U2's recent propensity for making music that is all-inclusive and more popular, are ignoring the possibility that their aim is to achieve something on a much grander scale than just releasing their music. I think they are trying to change the modern dynamic of the way people interact with modern music

The point I was making is that it IS possible for the majority to hate anything they perceive as being enjoyed by the majority..... It's illogical, but I think it is the case!
 
The point I was making is that it IS possible for the majority to hate anything they perceive as being enjoyed by the majority..... It's illogical, but I think it is the case!

How can it be? the majority by definition is at least one more than half of the people. Collectively, one more than half of the people cannot love what collectively one more than half of the people hate. Not only is it illogical, but it is impossible.

Opinions can change, yes, but then it doesn't become the majority vs the majority. At any single point in time, one group has to be a majority, and one group has to be a minority.

Because there is a choice of two options, the question may as well be "which do you prefer, blue or green" no option to say both equally. Then the results must equal 100%. therefore, if it is exactly 50-50 there is no majority. if it strays by one vote either side, one group becomes the majoirty, and one the minority
 
I agree, I don't think we do.

I never said they achieved that goal! But I do believe that the band's motives stretch beyond the pursuit of wealth.

I think NLOTH was the bridge to the next pasture. Just like other triumverates in their past - War was the bridge to TUF, and can be heard in Edge's guitar work listen to Surrender or Two Hearts, then immediately to Wire and Indian Summer Sky. R&H was the bridge to AB, heard in God Part II and Acrobat. Pop was the bridge to ATYCLB, Last Night On Earth to Beautiful Day, and NLOTH will be the bridge to SOA, hopefully following the path trodden by MOS, UC and F-BB

You're onto something here. :up:

Though I would've thought that the transition from Pop to Attyclub would be If God Will Send His Angels to Beautiful Day rather than Last Night On Earth, in my opinion.
 
How can it be? the majority by definition is at least one more than half of the people. Collectively, one more than half of the people cannot love what collectively one more than half of the people hate. Not only is it illogical, but it is impossible.

Opinions can change, yes, but then it doesn't become the majority vs the majority. At any single point in time, one group has to be a majority, and one group has to be a minority.

Because there is a choice of two options, the question may as well be "which do you prefer, blue or green" no option to say both equally. Then the results must equal 100%. therefore, if it is exactly 50-50 there is no majority. if it strays by one vote either side, one group becomes the majoirty, and one the minority

You're looking at it too logically. The majority of people (certainly in America) dislike any music that they perceive as being enjoyed by the majority. It's ridiculous. It's childish. It's certainly not logical, but I think it is the case.
 
exactly...it's not about sales at all

I see it as them trying to introduce some quality back into the mainstream. Teach the goldfish about longevity and how to sustain a love for art that lasts longer than the time it takes to brush your teeth

How many times have we heard Bono rant how he wishes rock would fight back against pop and hip hop and bring some quality into the mainstream ? How many times has he wished for Radiohead to be more competitive on the radio ? How often has he raved about Kurt Cobain for his pop writing ?
 
I think I speak for everyone here when I say:

"STOP FUCKING TALKING ABOUT FUCKING RADIO-FUCKING-HEAD!!!!!!!"

Just what I said but much, much better. Dan, you should be a mod. :D

As mods, we have to be a little nicer about our requests like that though. :laugh:

But, really, just a reminder to keep the discussion focused on U2 as much as possible! I realize that other bands can legitimately pop up in conversation about U2, but I know the first thread just ended up getting so horribly derailed from discussing U2, and I'd like to avoid having that happen again.
 
As mods, we have to be a little nicer about our requests like that though. :laugh:

But, really, just a reminder to keep the discussion focused on U2 as much as possible! I realize that other bands can legitimately pop up in conversation about U2, but I know the first thread just ended up getting so horribly derailed from discussing U2, and I'd like to avoid having that happen again.

:D :yes:

We try our best.
 
As mods, we have to be a little nicer about our requests like that though. :laugh:

But, really, just a reminder to keep the discussion focused on U2 as much as possible! I realize that other bands can legitimately pop up in conversation about U2, but I know the first thread just ended up getting so horribly derailed from discussing U2, and I'd like to avoid having that happen again.

True that!

I like being a renegade :lol:
 
Edge was on the phone to Phantom radio in Ireland here, and denied Songs of Ascent being finished or near it. Seems like the band are backing away from earlier statements again

Apparently that was a month ago, don't know why they put it back on the first page of their site...
 
wow, what a shocker

Bono tells us at the time of a new release that another album is on the way

And then nothing...
 
wow, what a shocker

Bono tells us at the time of a new release that another album is on the way

And then nothing...

Ummmm...okay?! :rolleyes:

You act like he needs to...he didn't even make a big deal about it. Most fans across the globe don't even know anything about a new album.
 
They might finish SOA in that long break between the end of autumn 09 US shows and before the summer 2010 US shows start.
 
Bono makes up this crap after every album comes out. Everyone jumps on the "They'll finish it after the tour!!1!" bandwagon. And then it's out 4 or 5 years later.

2014 at the earliest.
 
I'm still kinda optimistic, I think late Spring 2010 (May or early June) would be possible if they use the tour-break in the winter to record it. We can completely count out a autumn 2009-release, though.
 
Edge was on the phone to Phantom radio in Ireland here, and denied Songs of Ascent being finished or near it. Seems like the band are backing away from earlier statements again

Apparently that was a month ago, don't know why they put it back on the first page of their site...

Bloody hell!
 
I don't think they ever said it was finished.

But I'm sure there will be an album of this name, you don't drop an album name AND song details if you don't have something coming up.

Right now, the tour is priority.
 
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