Registered Dude
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Atomic Lemon! Been a while..
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SOE - Part 8 - iHeart Beach CLips
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superchuk5
Refugee
So, I don't know much about music structure, harmony, melody and so forth. And every time I read a post about this stuff, especially the concept of "over production" "over produced" I just go
And I'm not diminishing this post, I'd just like an example of a song that is "over produced" and how or why is that conclusion reached?
Then, the Quincy MD in me wants to know, "what songs would be described as "under produced" and "not enough production" ?"
I don't think I've ever read a post that says, "yeah, I like the track, but it was way way under produced"
So, kill some more time to September and help a guy out please.
Some good and educational responses, but I can see how using the term "overproduced" can be frustrating because of how vague it seems. When I called Pop overproduced, I meant that I felt that the production (mainly vocal distortions), got in the way of the music. For example, I think Discotheque has a cool and very disco-y vocal melody in the verse, but it is drowned out in vocal distortions and overdubbed harmonies. I couldn't really appreciate the line until listening to the 360 snippets. Whether something feels over produced (or badly produced) is pretty subjective except of people who really know music production.
AtomicLemon
War Child
Nice to see you!
Reg McGowan
War Child
gvox
Ghost of Love
I can list at least 20 huge U2 songs before EBW that fit this description easily, including our most beloved live tracks which would clearly sound pretty hollow without the 5th member of the band. So I think your point is kindof moot, really. They could easily perform EBW full band. Easily.
Imagine Bad without backing tracks? That shit would be terrible
Everything post War is based on what a producer can do with their sound. This is not new.
Everything post War is based on what a producer can do with their sound. This is not new.
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Registered Dude
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
maybe I didn't state my point well.. sure, they could play this arrangement, but it wouldn't sound as it does on the record. Even with a backing track, or someone rounding out the sound playing rhythm below, I dont think the song would sound good as it does on the record.
They likely rehearsed the song as it's recorded, but I'm guessing it lacked punch when it came to The Big Moments (ex. "you go" followed by Edge's chorus riff). These moments are manufactured for impact on record, but there's a polish and fullness here that I don't think we'd get live.
Hey, I know I might be talking out my ass here, but it's telling that they opted for a more stripped down sound on tour. Live, the strength of the song became the strength of the band, and in particular Bono, who took that chorus and gave it another kind of Big Moment. Arguably, it's a better song because of it.
On record, the production choices suggest they were chasing a certain sound that would sound great on the radio next to Sam Smith and the Script. They weren't choices that played to the strengths of the band. They served the idea of Song as Single rather than song as a "product of these four guys playing their guts out."
Why did they do it? Because they need big radio play to be the band that they want to be. It's still a great song, but I'd argue that its production undermines their greatest strengths. Can't blame Tedder, he's helping them get what they want.
it's just not what I want. which is all that matters, of course
Registered Dude
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
of course not. the difference is when a song crosses from produced, to over produced.
I mean, Your Blue Room is drenched in Eno. But to me the production complements the artistry of the music. Its design is not to make the song sound like something other than the product of those making it.
this is subjective territory folks. I dont pretend to be an authority on the matter.
My hope is that SOE is awesome in the way that ony U2 can be
gvox
Ghost of Love
maybe I didn't state my point well.. sure, they could play this arrangement, but it wouldn't sound as it does on the record. Even with a backing track, or someone rounding out the sound playing rhythm below, I dont think the song would sound good as it does on the record.
They likely rehearsed the song as it's recorded, but I'm guessing it lacked punch when it came to The Big Moments (ex. "you go" followed by Edge's chorus riff). These moments are manufactured for impact on record, but there's a polish and fullness here that I don't think we'd get live.
Hey, I know I might be talking out my ass here, but it's telling that they opted for a more stripped down sound on tour. Live, the strength of the song became the strength of the band, and in particular Bono, who took that chorus and gave it another kind of Big Moment. Arguably, it's a better song because of it.
On record, the production choices suggest they were chasing a certain sound that would sound great on the radio next to Sam Smith and the Script. They weren't choices that played to the strengths of the band. They served the idea of Song as Single rather than song as a "product of these four guys playing their guts out."
Why did they do it? Because they need big radio play to be the band that they want to be. It's still a great song, but I'd argue that its production undermines their greatest strengths. Can't blame Tedder, he's helping them get what they want.
it's just not what I want. which is all that matters, of course
Again, I don't really get this as being anything new or unique in the U2 sound. Let's just hit on the chorus for a sec, since you brought it up. Plenty of U2 songs where on the album the chorus is subdued, and then live Bono dials it up. Beautiful Day is a prime example. He's barely even singing the chorus on the album. Live? He soars.
EBW is the same imo. As a matter of fact, I think that if Bono were to sing EBW the way he did on I&E but with the full band version, it would blow all previous versions we have out of the water. I'd argue that it would be better than the album, even. To be honest, if your theory is what they were going for ie they wanted to get played next to Sam Smith, that's the vocal he needed to record. The big chorus.
Now...you ask, why didn't they do it full band live, then? I think we have Bono's injury to thank for that. That rhythm guitar isn't far below, it's right up there in the mix, and while yes he can actually play that live (see: The Fly)...if he's recovering from his injury and not playing guitar, what to do? Re-arrange. Similarly, One.
I don't think EBW is over produced at all. It's actually pretty simple and is as close to "U2 perfection" as they have come since, well, probably City Of Blinding Lights - another hugely layered song (trust me, try making the backing track for this song argh) which also flies live.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I'm not sure why/ or what you think it's telling of? But I'm not really buying your argument, your ignoring decades of U2.
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womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
I think that the term "over produced" is being misused a lot in respect to the band. Let's be honest, UF and on have been produced to the hilt, mostly with stunning results.
I think the root cause of a messy song is the songwriting itself. U2's greatness to me, has always been the openness and seamlessness of the songs. Songs from UF, JT, AB, that soar from verse to chorus. Their songs could meander in a way, and not fit the standard verse/chorus/verse template to a tee, and that was their beauty.
I feel that its when they actually focus on what they call "traditional songwriting" is when there are hiccups. Or if not hiccups, they just come out bland and neutered sounding.
I think a great mix of both worlds, is a song like Stay or AIWIY or WGRYWH... Those are pretty standard song structures, but they still soar like only a U2 song can.
I also put EBW into this category even though some might label it as "over produced", to me it came out for the better.
I think the root cause of a messy song is the songwriting itself. U2's greatness to me, has always been the openness and seamlessness of the songs. Songs from UF, JT, AB, that soar from verse to chorus. Their songs could meander in a way, and not fit the standard verse/chorus/verse template to a tee, and that was their beauty.
I feel that its when they actually focus on what they call "traditional songwriting" is when there are hiccups. Or if not hiccups, they just come out bland and neutered sounding.
I think a great mix of both worlds, is a song like Stay or AIWIY or WGRYWH... Those are pretty standard song structures, but they still soar like only a U2 song can.
I also put EBW into this category even though some might label it as "over produced", to me it came out for the better.
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gvox
Ghost of Love
I would argue even before that, perhaps to a lesser extent tho. There's some pretty noticeable stuff going on in the first 3 albums in the studio that doesn't get reproduced live. No hidden violinist for SBS or kid running a fork thru bicycle spokes or smashing bottles for IWF etc etc lol
Registered Dude
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
it's telling of the band's realization that the stripped down version is a stronger version. that the version on record isn't the best showcase of this song.
Ironically the version that they ended up pushing for radio was closer in spirit to the live version.
Recall
Registered Dude
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
gvox
Ghost of Love
I disagree. I think the only thing it's telling of is that they knew they couldn't hide a guitarist under the stage for this one, the tour was coming up/on, and they wanted to push something out that would show continuity between radio and live. And, maybe a bit of
The album version blows this away. If only he was singing the chorus similarly. Maybe a bit of the piano. But the whole "epic movie soundtrack" vibe of this leaves me meh
Registered Dude
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I disagree. I think the only thing it's telling of is that they knew they couldn't hide a guitarist under the stage for this one, the tour was coming up/on, and they wanted to push something out that would show continuity between radio and live. And, maybe a bit of Sam Smith envy
The album version blows this away. If only he was singing the chorus similarly. Maybe a bit of the piano. But the whole "epic movie soundtrack" vibe of this leaves me meh
fair enough!
At the end of the day, EBW is a great case study in how the band thinks. (overthinks?)
We have the 360 tour version, the SOI version, the alternate version leaked with Films of Innocence the SOI deluxe edition version, the live version, the radio version,
phew! is there any other song where we've had so many variations?
Registered Dude
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
BTW, props to us.
a lot of you disagree with me, but no one is an asshole about it. not many online forums where that is the case!
a lot of you disagree with me, but no one is an asshole about it. not many online forums where that is the case!
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
I know that the whole release method/first single thing gets rehashed every few weeks... But, I can't help but think what the reception of this song, and then in turn for SOI would have been, if this version was the lead off single. And instead of the iphone thing, they had it showcased in full, on a very cool, relevant, highly watched non-lame show, like the Walking Dead premiere or finale. I could see this song being played over the last 3 minutes of the show and have people scrambling to find out who it was and where to get it.
And then have in the closing credits - Download U2's new single, EBW free this week only with promo code... blah blah...
I could see making a really big organic splash. Hell, SFS even got a bit of attention because they had Woody Harrelson in long form video.
anyway. carry on.
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Reg McGowan
War Child
This. I totally agree with. It's all in Bono's Vocal delivery here which is much more passionate. Those extended "Goooooooo and Sooooooooo"s in the chorus makes all the difference.
I share the same feeling with the Gone mix they put on "Best of U2 1990-2000" compilation. Remember in the break "You're stillllllllll holding on" lyric. So much passion there that blows the album version out entirely.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Nah, I think it's just what Gvox said, it really has a lot to do with Bono and guitar. Plus, I'd say it also has to do with their current mood; they seem hell bent on being able to reproduce these songs acoustically, which is fine, but we all know that many of U2's greatest live moments have additional "players". I don't think it has anything to do with "overproduction".
I think "overproduced" is an overused subjective term. I mean by your definition Zooropa and most of Pop would fall into the "manufactured" can't be produced by four guys in a room.
For the sake not having to dig through 1000 posts in the old thread, could someone brief us on news about the single? Is the nearby release date speculation? Is it assumed the beach clip leak will be the single?
Registered Dude
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I think we're assuming the beach clip is the single as it sounds so poppy...
And while there's been no official word citing when the single gets released, you can bet the farm that it's released the week of September 19.
do you
radio? I do.
Edge_Orchestra
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
I have to agree. Band version + String version with Adam/Larry were far superior to just Bono and Edge.
B & E are great but for me, U2 is a band. And for me, I prefer to see/hear all 4 of them play.
Why the B & E version on the i+e tour? Probably part was 'staging'. It made sense for B & E to stay and play a piano song while Adam and Larry sauntered off to the main stage. And then the dramatic move of Bono and Edge returning to the main stage during Bullet. Staging-wise, it makes sense. On a musical level? I'd have preferred a full band version.
I think we're assuming the beach clip is the single as it sounds so poppy...
And while there's been no official word citing when the single gets released, you can bet the farm that it's released the week of September 19.
do you
Assuming the beach clip is a single? Maybe. But wasn't 'The Troubles' a beach clip? And that wasn't a single.
#Truth.
They have proven that some of the songs work in an acoustic format. Some (Sunday Bloody Sunday) did not work, and they stopped playing it in that form.
Nothing wrong with wanting a live set to ebb and flow. Dynamics are important. But that can be done with all 4 members playing. It doesn't have to be just Bono & Edge.
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mikal
Blue Crack Addict
The only thing we don't know is if it's a one off single or the first single of a new album.
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Registered Dude
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
yep, great point
Reg McGowan
War Child
Yes !
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJNnFROBZGV/?taken-by=u2
Bono is STILL eating...album is nowhere near completion
hasin73
Refugee
I disagree. I think the only thing it's telling of is that they knew they couldn't hide a guitarist under the stage for this one, the tour was coming up/on, and they wanted to push something out that would show continuity between radio and live. And, maybe a bit ofSam SmithAdelecurrent radio hit envy
The album version blows this away. If only he was singing the chorus similarly. Maybe a bit of the piano. But the whole "epic movie soundtrack" vibe of this leaves me meh
This.
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