Great post.
SOE 31: Yes, we have no bananas
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Great post.
Registered Dude
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I'm a giant asshole, truthfully
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
I posted this elsewhere, but it fits here, too:
Unless they change their attitude/approach regarding new music, I don't think we'll see anything we could all comfortably call "great" from them again. But you know what? I'm okay with that. It doesn't frustrate me as much as it does others (I mean, it does a *little* - they're such a frustrating bunch of chuckleheads). They've given us a ton of great stuff; everything else is just gravy at this point.
As long as I like the new stuff a reasonable amount, I'm happy to be pleasantly surprised by hidden gems on the album. That's how SOI rolled with me, and I fully expect SOE to be the same way.
I have to step back from the forum or social media once in a while when a stream of (often hyperbolic) negativity gets to be a drag, but that's on me, not someone else's opinions.
Considering how much I loved the I&E tour, I'm looking forward to this one as well. hoping for PNW dates when a second US leg is announced.
Unless they change their attitude/approach regarding new music, I don't think we'll see anything we could all comfortably call "great" from them again. But you know what? I'm okay with that. It doesn't frustrate me as much as it does others (I mean, it does a *little* - they're such a frustrating bunch of chuckleheads). They've given us a ton of great stuff; everything else is just gravy at this point.
As long as I like the new stuff a reasonable amount, I'm happy to be pleasantly surprised by hidden gems on the album. That's how SOI rolled with me, and I fully expect SOE to be the same way.
I have to step back from the forum or social media once in a while when a stream of (often hyperbolic) negativity gets to be a drag, but that's on me, not someone else's opinions.
Considering how much I loved the I&E tour, I'm looking forward to this one as well. hoping for PNW dates when a second US leg is announced.
Pssht yea they really need another PNW show to have Eddie Vedder mumble all over some random encore song. Can't you think of the people in Antarctica?
What... I thought this is what we were doing now?
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
Oh Laz is an asshole. And I say that with love. He's certainly great to converse with and was actually a defender of SOI when it first came out.
purpleblackeye
War Child
- Joined
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- 742
Strangely enough I am finding the more conventional pop songs of Get Out....and The Best Thing more satisfying than Blackout and American Soul. Maybe it's because there is no identity crises with them - they are what they are, and the band is not hiding the fact that they are obvious attempts to replicate the success of Beautiful Day, Vertigo, etc. I feel like American Soul and Blackout are sort of dorky attempts to be cool and gritty - maybe Blackout less so, beside the stupid name couplets. Blackout and American Soul need a bit more dirt on their faces to be truly visceral and punchy as rockers. I can't help to think that they are sort of laminated versions of the cool rock song.
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Now see, the way you put it here, I mostly agree with. I'm glad you took the time to refine and clarify your remarks. It's all good.
Though let me know when you find one of those pearls.
kiwilad
Refugee
Just catching up with this thread.
I pretty much agree with every word in this post. I'm not sure if I'm one of those critics you're referring to or not. But in essence I agree with you.
And I am enjoying this ride. I forced my wife to done the headphones and listen to the new songs last night. I love U2. Always will. And I love this time in the cycle.
And I think ned/fred/refujesus should have been put in the toilet and flushed. I really truly did stop the Get Out playback before the lamar part because I felt embarrassed and didn't want my wife to hear it.
I'm excited, appreciative, impressed and critical. All at the same time. That's ok isn't it?
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Yeah, i think i spouted off a little too much there for my own good. I was a bit of a hypocritical d**k, but I was only trying to say, we all are here for the same reason, that we have love for this band.
And beyond that, i should care less if people get worked up and bitch about a couple songs.
I'm with you. I stick with the band, through every turn.
I had my wife listen to The Troubles and SLABT last time cause i loved them so much. But so far, I have that same feeling where, those couple of head-shaking lyric choices by bono give me pause to even share. She's not a fan and likes to joke about the band with me. Yes they are old. LOL.
anyway. Can't wait to hear more. a month is a long time!!
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
the various editions are now up on Amazon for pre-order.
Marko
War Child
This
New rock songs somehow feel forced
Pop songs sound easy. They are what they are and it's fine.
Blackout and AS to me send like them trying on a rock sound, but in its essence it's pure pop - and somehow they feel insincere to me. Fake and throwaway
Maybe I'll like them more later
david
ONE love, blood, life
So are there 30 second samples anywhere?
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I couldn’t possibly disagree with this more. I can see how people are getting the BD thing in GOO with the heartbeat percussion, and I’ll just leave it at that, but Vertigo?
Blackout and AS, not having their own identity? What in their catalog sounds like Blackout? Lyric issues aside these two songs are some of the more interesting they’ve done in awhile.
Reggie Thee Dog
Blue Crack Addict
I love the rock side of U2...Blackout is muted rock...American Soul (Volcano mk. II) is great!
The "you are rock n' roll"...chorus is put to much better use in this song than the original...
The "you are rock n' roll"...chorus is put to much better use in this song than the original...
CosmoKramer
Rock n' Roll Doggie
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purpleblackeye
War Child
- Joined
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Vertigo in a sense of striving for commercial success, not in terms of sound. Not the point whether those songs sound like anything in the past. I think it’s more about the production and the sort of cliche rock stomp of it. But it’s not that I hate the songs. They will grow on me. The harder songs on SOI like Volcano and Raises by Wolves are just way more interesting and daring from a sonic perspective. The lyrical clumsiness of Volcano is more forgivable because the song has such drive and momentum. And the lyrics of Raised by Wolves and Cedarwood are great.
kiwilad
Refugee
Yeah I posted before I'd caught up with all your contextual additions! I agree with you.
Re hyperbole, I've been on this site a long time. One of the reasons I used to only stalk and not post was because if the veracity of some people's opinions. It was kinda intimidating!
These days I'm quite comfortable with my own opinions and don't feel threatened by posts like Cobblers a day ago. I like those posts. Cause they add the diversity that makes this place shine.
Having said that I'm not fond of the personal attacks. I don't know Sil and I have no idea how she'd react to that stuff. I hope she'd just laugh it off.
I think it was RD who said yesterday how nuanced and deep the discussion was. Very true.
Re SOA or whatever follows this, the indication I got from that Adam interview a few months back was that they were going to take all the pressure off themselves after this album, and let SOA germinate slowly and naturally. I'm really excited about that.
Re this current quest for popularity. I recall Bono saying recently how responsible he felt for all the people employed in the U2 machine, and if that machine were to stop, or even downsize, a lot of folk would be looking for work. I don't see that as condescending. I see that as a genuine reaction to growing up working class in a poverty-afflicted city. And I have to keep that in mind when I despair of the Tedder stuff.
However. There is still no excuse for Ned and Fred. Refu-jesus - ok I accept there is a point there. It's still a shitter of a lyric though!
Registered Dude
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Donkey Kong's horde
RoKKeR
Refugee
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Chiming in to say womanfish's take is a very good one.
kiwilad
Refugee
Shall we take bets on how many threads the banana will last?
I'm picking there'll still be bananas come album launch.
I'm picking there'll still be bananas come album launch.
It's an interesting idea, when bands have been around this long, why aren't they able to maintain a sense of quality? Just about every veteran act you like that has been in the game for 30 plus years has had their ups and downs, of course, it's how they go about it. Also, it's a matter of taste, plenty of U2 fans love their output up till now, many do not.
Of course, some bands are able to maintain a level of quality throughout their careers. I think Depeche Mode have done it (their latest album is very solid, also interesting how many of their releases align with U2's). Radiohead is another, their latest album from last year was excellent. Now, I'm biased as a fan of those bands, but the divisiveness isn't as apparent among their fans from what I gather. They seem to me to be bands doing what they want without compromise. Sure their releases may have long gaps like U2, but the music is of higher quality (at least to my ears).
Then of course solo artists have had plenty of late year successes, Bob Dylan and Neil Young have put out a number of quality albums in their late 50s, 60s and 70s.
The common perception is when artists are young, they're really creative hungry. There's the lack of financial means, which can likely be an incentive. It may also have to do with being young and still absorbing so much, but there are many reasons.
On the one hand, I am glad U2 are still making new music, because they don't have to, hell they could retire today. While I am glad they still tour, if they were go to full Fab Four, and just be a studio band and make music, I think I could live with that. I don't know what it is though, I wish someone close to them who perhaps can be more critical could question their ways of making music. I don't think Dave Fanning, Bill Flanagan, Neil McCormick or Gavin Friday is gonna do it, it doesn't even seem the people who produce their albums are doing it. Does Bono have some clause or something where no one can criticize his lyrics?
I remember when Nigel Goodrich produced Paul McCartney's Chaos and Creation in the Backyard he basically made him discard any sappy lyrics he had. That album is quite good actually...great even and that was 2005 (funnily enough, HTDAAB beat it at the Grammy's for Album of the Year). Maybe U2 haven't found that producer or maybe they have, but they just ignore it. Whatever Danger Mouse brought to them, it's there I'm sure, but when you have 3 other producers working on something, it loses his touch for sure, but it overwhelms the song. I can hear his influence on the songs he solely produced and those might be the strongest tunes, so there right these is a lesson. Working with one producer can enable great results, even two. The team of Eno and Lanois did them wonders and for whatever reason, really understood U2's strengths and weaknesses as a band, which is arguably why their most memorable music was made with them. Though I love Pop and the first trilogy of Lilywhite albums from the 80s. Hell, the b-sides from SOI, most especially The Crystal Ballroom are very good. So these 4 guys can clearly make quality music, just not consistently or maybe the best stuff is never getting released.
I don't know what it is, cause it seems like it isn't just one reason. If ATYCLB had been a huge failure, U2 might've broken up or the recovery would be especially hard. The sad part was it wasn't a one off, they then doubled down with HTDAAB, which unfortunately was also pretty successful.
They had the right idea with NLOTH, they just didn't stick with it. Maybe it's deeper than that, after all, they're a band who has had a tremendously lengthy high. For two decades, they were made some great music, which not many bands can do or have done. Maybe U2 just love that high, being on top and can't let it go (which is probably tough), but surely they must know it can't last. It didn't for the Stones, why would it for them? Granted, they're a different band. The Beatles are an interesting case, they made incredible music and did it all in one decade. It's impossible to imagine their career stretched out over four decades (they also started to hate each other). But that's what makes U2 special, it's still the same four guys, four decades later.
I'm not sure where I am going with this, but the last 17 years has been a mixed bag for me as a U2 fan. I became a fan with ATYCLB and still like it. Someone said this somewhere, it may have been this forum, but U2 suck at they think they're great at and are great at what they think they suck at. So, the desperate radio hit attempts are clearly that...awful. But the atmospheric, more experimental stuff is generally brilliant. Basically U2 is at their best when they don't sound like U2. Play The Troubles or SLABT for someone who isn't a fan or aware of much of their music and you might convert them or certainly catch their attention. Better yet play them Passengers and you will probably have their jaw drop, it's a great feeling haha.
I don't know. If there is some hope to be taken from this, their Live Nation tour deal wraps in 2020. Maybe they'll renew it, or maybe seeing as SOE will likely tank, they'll go back and actually dream it up again. And perhaps, they'll blow our minds with Songs of Ascent or something wild that we would never expect, but they won't bother concerning themselves with radio hits or relevancy. That said, I'll give SOE a listen of course and see what happens there.
One can hope when they do call it quits, they'll release the stuff in the vaults. I can't imagine what gems might be hiding from those Pop sessions. It still annoys me that they disavow that record, especially with this being the 20th anniversary (though it isn't surprising given their mindset). Hell, they recorded some 20 hours of music for Passengers, so there's stuff out there for sure.
Anyway long post, but yeah, it's tough to see a band you love go through this, but maybe they'll learn one day (but if they haven't even in 17 years, I'm skeptical),
Of course, some bands are able to maintain a level of quality throughout their careers. I think Depeche Mode have done it (their latest album is very solid, also interesting how many of their releases align with U2's). Radiohead is another, their latest album from last year was excellent. Now, I'm biased as a fan of those bands, but the divisiveness isn't as apparent among their fans from what I gather. They seem to me to be bands doing what they want without compromise. Sure their releases may have long gaps like U2, but the music is of higher quality (at least to my ears).
Then of course solo artists have had plenty of late year successes, Bob Dylan and Neil Young have put out a number of quality albums in their late 50s, 60s and 70s.
The common perception is when artists are young, they're really creative hungry. There's the lack of financial means, which can likely be an incentive. It may also have to do with being young and still absorbing so much, but there are many reasons.
On the one hand, I am glad U2 are still making new music, because they don't have to, hell they could retire today. While I am glad they still tour, if they were go to full Fab Four, and just be a studio band and make music, I think I could live with that. I don't know what it is though, I wish someone close to them who perhaps can be more critical could question their ways of making music. I don't think Dave Fanning, Bill Flanagan, Neil McCormick or Gavin Friday is gonna do it, it doesn't even seem the people who produce their albums are doing it. Does Bono have some clause or something where no one can criticize his lyrics?
I remember when Nigel Goodrich produced Paul McCartney's Chaos and Creation in the Backyard he basically made him discard any sappy lyrics he had. That album is quite good actually...great even and that was 2005 (funnily enough, HTDAAB beat it at the Grammy's for Album of the Year). Maybe U2 haven't found that producer or maybe they have, but they just ignore it. Whatever Danger Mouse brought to them, it's there I'm sure, but when you have 3 other producers working on something, it loses his touch for sure, but it overwhelms the song. I can hear his influence on the songs he solely produced and those might be the strongest tunes, so there right these is a lesson. Working with one producer can enable great results, even two. The team of Eno and Lanois did them wonders and for whatever reason, really understood U2's strengths and weaknesses as a band, which is arguably why their most memorable music was made with them. Though I love Pop and the first trilogy of Lilywhite albums from the 80s. Hell, the b-sides from SOI, most especially The Crystal Ballroom are very good. So these 4 guys can clearly make quality music, just not consistently or maybe the best stuff is never getting released.
I don't know what it is, cause it seems like it isn't just one reason. If ATYCLB had been a huge failure, U2 might've broken up or the recovery would be especially hard. The sad part was it wasn't a one off, they then doubled down with HTDAAB, which unfortunately was also pretty successful.
They had the right idea with NLOTH, they just didn't stick with it. Maybe it's deeper than that, after all, they're a band who has had a tremendously lengthy high. For two decades, they were made some great music, which not many bands can do or have done. Maybe U2 just love that high, being on top and can't let it go (which is probably tough), but surely they must know it can't last. It didn't for the Stones, why would it for them? Granted, they're a different band. The Beatles are an interesting case, they made incredible music and did it all in one decade. It's impossible to imagine their career stretched out over four decades (they also started to hate each other). But that's what makes U2 special, it's still the same four guys, four decades later.
I'm not sure where I am going with this, but the last 17 years has been a mixed bag for me as a U2 fan. I became a fan with ATYCLB and still like it. Someone said this somewhere, it may have been this forum, but U2 suck at they think they're great at and are great at what they think they suck at. So, the desperate radio hit attempts are clearly that...awful. But the atmospheric, more experimental stuff is generally brilliant. Basically U2 is at their best when they don't sound like U2. Play The Troubles or SLABT for someone who isn't a fan or aware of much of their music and you might convert them or certainly catch their attention. Better yet play them Passengers and you will probably have their jaw drop, it's a great feeling haha.
I don't know. If there is some hope to be taken from this, their Live Nation tour deal wraps in 2020. Maybe they'll renew it, or maybe seeing as SOE will likely tank, they'll go back and actually dream it up again. And perhaps, they'll blow our minds with Songs of Ascent or something wild that we would never expect, but they won't bother concerning themselves with radio hits or relevancy. That said, I'll give SOE a listen of course and see what happens there.
One can hope when they do call it quits, they'll release the stuff in the vaults. I can't imagine what gems might be hiding from those Pop sessions. It still annoys me that they disavow that record, especially with this being the 20th anniversary (though it isn't surprising given their mindset). Hell, they recorded some 20 hours of music for Passengers, so there's stuff out there for sure.
Anyway long post, but yeah, it's tough to see a band you love go through this, but maybe they'll learn one day (but if they haven't even in 17 years, I'm skeptical),
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Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Well, I don't think keeping people employed is the reason for U2's artistic choices.
In any event, new record sales isn't what pays those people's salaries. It's mostly tour revenues, merchandising, digital rights, etc. That's where the money is. U2 could never release another record and still sell out tours every few years if that's what they wanted to to.
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kiwilad
Refugee
super fly guy
New Yorker
There will be a bunch of threads.
TinKnight
Refugee
Black and white album cover again huh?
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