Serious topic RE: bootlegs, need some feedback

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martha

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It's a well-written letter, but ain't nobody nohow gonna give you written permission to do that. If they give you permission, then a whole lot of others will want it, citing you as a precedent. You say you won't charge money, and we believe you, but the band and management don't have any idea who you are. For all they know, you can start running a business with their permission letter as a basis for it.

Sorry, Mike; I know you have the best intentions, and I hope I'm wrong, but don't get your hopes up.
 
U2 has no problem with fan members sharing audience recordings. However, their record company does. I read an interview once with Paul McGuiness and they asked him about trading audience recordings. He indicated that security taking away tape/mini discs from those taping is a waste of time and that it is flattering the way the U2 fans want all the shows and swap. He then said though that he was not going to encourage it either.

There are a few bands that allow bootlegging and they actually have it written into the recording contract specifically. The Grateful Dead had this clause. U2 does not and I doubdt they ever will. So while they probebly really don't care about you sharing the audio, they are not going to endorse it officially either.
 
DMB used to allow fans to plug directly into the soundboard for recording, but now they don't. They do however, allow them to record, and have a designated area to set up mic stuff.
 
Aside from the legality issues, I don't think universities want you using their connection for anything other than educational purposes. I believe if you look at your school's internet policies, the things you are allowed to do with your connection are very limited, and I know most places don't even allow you to run an ftp server. In practice, network admins don't usually care what you're doing with the connection until there is massive traffic through your connection, and then they conduct an investigation of what is actually passing through your server. I know because I got caught last year by a network admin after running my server over a year. He only caught me because my server became very popular and was using massive bandwith. However, he told me to shut it down because of copyrighted material was passing through my server. He never mentioned anything about taking up massive bandwidth, but I'm convinced this was the basis for his investigation.

It's unlikely you'll get any written permission by management. If you still feel compelled to run the server, I suggest you limit the bandwidth. Do you know how much traffic your ftp generates daily? If your school has a T3 connection, I think it would be safe to have the max limit at 50-60k.



[This message has been edited by qball7200 (edited 01-21-2002).]
 
Mike, that was a great letter, but I have to agree with the others regarding actually obtaining written permission. I suppose nothing ventured, nothing gained though. I can't help but wonder, could it be damaging to other FTP owners and the bootleg industry itself, to expose yourself in that way particularly if you do not get the desired result, ie. a letter from PM.

Is there another way? Perhaps changing servers? Internet providers?
 
Good luck Mike. Well written letter.
I don't know if you're likely to get your letter, my guess is your letter may get placed in the round file by some underling at PM, but you never know.
Cross your fingers, and hope for the best.

If this doesn't work, do you have any other options?
 
Originally posted by Angel:
Mike, that was a great letter, but I have to agree with the others regarding actually obtaining written permission. I suppose nothing ventured, nothing gained though. I can't help but wonder, could it be damaging to other FTP owners and the bootleg industry itself, to expose yourself in that way particularly if you do not get the desired result, ie. a letter from PM.

Is there another way? Perhaps changing servers? Internet providers?


I agree that your letter is awesome, but wonder if it sending a letter will get you anywhere but in trouble since it is technically illegal even if the band supports it.

What about logging on to New Media? Is that so similiar to hosting a FTP site that you wouldn't be able to do that?

You have been really awesome to help us get mp3's and we all thank you and really appreciate it! I'm sorry it got you into a bit of trouble!

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"There's a lot of real rubbish going on about new music & old music, can I just say we play U2 music? Is that OK?" - Bono, Us Festival 5/30/83
 
If I were you, I'd kick the computer guys ass! Chances are, he's a real wimp.

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Look what you did, you little JERK!

Kevin! You're such a disease!
 
Honestly though, I'd lay low for a while, maybe shut it down for a month(even though it would really suck for me), and then when these dorks at your campus think it's gone, put it back up.

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Look what you did, you little JERK!

Kevin! You're such a disease!
 
I'm really sorry to hear this Mike, especially since you've been so great to everyone around here.

It's a very well-written letter...from an English major's point of view
wink.gif


Power to the people!

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And love is not the easy thing...the only baggage you can bring is all that you can't leave behind.

BONO: FOAD, Lawrence. Just FOAD. (LOL, Mona)

Create Light, Create Unity, Create Joy, CREATE PEACE!
 
Originally posted by Foxxern:
Sounds kind of funny to us, but you might want to clarify who exactly Bono, The Edge, Adam Clayton, and Paul McGuinness are. Not a life story or anything, just their relation to the entity known as U2. People at your school's internet connection center might not know.



Just a question but does Larry not agree with it or have you just forgotten he exists lol
 
Originally posted by UV2001:

Just a question but does Larry not agree with it or have you just forgotten he exists lol

Nope...just that Larry hasn't weighed in on the subject yet
smile.gif


And I know it probably won't accomplish anything. I figured that it'd be worth a try. At worst, it'll make SOMEBODY think about SOMETHING, whatever that's worth..

And yeah, I guess I'll have to lay low for a while. We'll see how it plays out.

Thanks for the tips,

-MIke

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My U2 Bootleg Archive
 
If I were you, I would consider myself lucky for able to keep your site up as long as you did. Cut your losses, keep a low profile, and start everything up in a few months if you can. I work for a University so I know how the system works. More than anything, they were trying to cover their own ass over the copyright infringement. Let's be real here---all bootlegs are copyright infringement. By having a public internet site, you are just more visible than the average Joe Trader out there burning discs and mailing them out. If your University had kept allowing you do that, they would been seen as an advocate for what you were doing, thus making them liable as well. I would probably just forget about the letter because there is NO WAY the band's management, their lawyers, or the record label would go for it.
 
To clear this up, I'm planning on sending this letter to Band/Management. I need my permission straight from the horse's mouth!

OK, here's the deal. I'm a college student, and I just got my internet connection killed for a while because of "copyright infringement." This is directy referring to my FTP.

I KNOW that the band is not opposed to bootleg sharing, provided that there's no money involved, so I've written a letter to U2 management. My goal (however unrealistic) is to get written permission to run the kind of small FTP that so many others run, because the network jockeys at school want written permission.

My hope is that since the band (and Paul McGuinness) are on record supporting this kind of thing, that maybe I have an outside shot at them putting their money where their mouth is (for lack of a better phrase). I'm sure hoping so. U2 have always been VERY good to their fans.

On that note, here we go. I'd like to have any suggestions, etc.


To Whom It May Concern:

As a long-time fan of U2, and as someone who is making an effort to make live U2 concerts available to other fans, I write to ask a favor. In recent years, the emergence of mp3s as a music medium has brought about questions about the legality of music sharing via the internet, and there have been many legal proceedings regarding this question of copyright. For avid U2 fans such as myself, who openly engage in the trading of recorded concerts over the internet, widely discussed statements from U2 members and Mr. Paul McGuinness have been enough to satisfy us that the concert trading we engage in is allowed by the band.
I am a college student, and the FTP (file transfer protocol) server that I use to share my U2 concert collection is on my personal computer. I must, however, use a campus-provided internet connection for this server, and that is where my problem arises.
My internet connection, and thus the sharing of my U2 concert collection, has been terminated because of alleged copyright violations.
The only music that I host is U2 music, and there are no commercial releases available. In other words, the only music that I am involved with is live U2 concerts, and that is why I am writing to you.

I am writing to request formal written permission to host, exchange, and make available for download, non-commercially available live recordings of U2 music ONLY.

The most important thing for me to make clear about this request is that there has never been, isn?t, and never will be any money involved in my operation. It has been made clear by the band that while they encourage trading of concert recordings, they forbid the sales of these recordings, and I will always respect that. In addition, I believe, as do many other people who have operations like mine (and larger), that by making live U2 concerts available for free, we are helping to eliminate bootlegging-for-profit of U2 concerts.
To make a long story short, the concert sharing that I do has been legitimized by Bono, The Edge, Adam Clayton, and Paul McGuinness, in various interviews. If they didn?t approve, then I wouldn?t be making this request, and I also wouldn?t be running my FTP server. The fact that they do approve, and that I am making this request, says a lot about the mutual respect that exists between U2 and their fans. Unfortunately, my knowledge that the band supports what I do is not enough to placate the campus network providers. For that, I ask you for assistance. Thank you.

Enclosed please find a separate page of relevant quotes from U2 members, and also a Stamped, self-addressed envelope.

Sincerely,


Michael Parsons

cc: Principle Management New York
U2 World Service
Interference.com forums


Quotes to be included:

"My feeling is that it is cool for people to share our music -- as long as no one is making money from the process. We tell people who come to our concerts that they can tape the shows if they want. I think it is cool that people are so passionate about our music" -- Bono

"I have no problems with bootlegs. I think, again, if people make recordings and give them to their friends - as long as people don't get ripped off." ? The Edge

"I think bootlegs are something that it's very difficult to stop. Obviously there are fans out there that want to buy them. I don't like overpriced bootlegs that are ripping the fans off. If they're good quality recordings of a show then I'm happy enough that people have access to those things and I know that there's a culture out there that listens to bootlegs. So I kind of tolerate it, provided the quality is good and the fans aren't being ripped off." -- Adam Clayton

"The fact that people circulate and swap recordings they've made at our concerts with tape recorders under their coats I'm actually very relaxed about that. I know the industry is formally opposed to that kind of thing but I'm not. I don't have a problem with it at all." - Paul McGuinness


Thanks much,

-MIke

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My U2 Bootleg Archive

[This message has been edited by Mike P (edited 01-21-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Mike P (edited 01-21-2002).]
 
Well, if your school is anything like ours, the Computing dept which controls student internet access will be headed by a complete asshole who doesn't care what you have to say and is on a power trip thinking he's sooo fucking cool because he can shut down access without even giving the students a chance to argue their case. (Can you tell I'm still bitter from an event that took place two years ago?)

Anyway, I think the argument is worth a shot, but I doubt it'll work. Technically, you are infringing on copyrights by sharing bootlegs. And "technically" is all those bastards care about. Short of taking legal action, I'm not sure there is much you can do about it. But then again, maybe your internet connections aren't run by heartless assholes, and they might sympathize somewhat. Just hope that the people there know about U2 a bit, and that they might respect the wishes of Principle Management.

Good luck, man.

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Change is the only constant
 
Sounds kind of funny to us, but you might want to clarify who exactly Bono, The Edge, Adam Clayton, and Paul McGuinness are. Not a life story or anything, just their relation to the entity known as U2. People at your school's internet connection center might not know.

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Change is the only constant
 
EEK, is that why it stopped uploading last nite and now I cant get back in?

[This message has been edited by Sicy (edited 01-21-2002).]
 
Hold on here....this is a letter I'm sending to Principle Management, New York. I need written permission to hand to the network nazis, and the only people I can get that from is the band.

-MIke
 
Originally posted by Mike P:
Hold on here....this is a letter I'm sending to Principle Management, New York. I need written permission to hand to the network nazis, and the only people I can get that from is the band.

-MIke

Ah, my bad. Yes, that makes sense. (slaps forehead)



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Change is the only constant
 
I think it sounds great in theory, but my opinion is that you wouldn't get that written permission. There's probably some grey area as to whether that has to come from the band, or their record label, or their management company... who exactly can give that permission? Even if PM gives it, the bootleg recording itself is a copyright violation. I just remember in the old days when Propaganda used to have the Grapevine for "swops", they were very clear to exclude boots.

Sorry your FTP got hammered. I know you put a lot of work in.

Peace

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She's gonna dream up a world she wants to live in / She's gonna dream out loud.
Visit my web page at www.u2page.com
 
Wow Mike, how did your school know you were hosting mp3s on your FTP? Was it a univeristy wide crackdown or did they just happen to find you?
 
Nope, I just got nailed. Dumb luck. The network boys here use port sniffers. They saw thay my FTP port was open, then then logged in and checked to see what the contents were.

I'm the moron of the day, though, because I could have saved myself all of this trouble by banning on-campus IPs from getting onto my FTP. I guess hindsight is 20/20, though.....


-Mike
 
i would like to say thanks to you mike for keeping it up as long as you did. if i can help in any way let me know. you are a stand up guy, and i think it's bullshit they shut you down. take mikal advice and wait a few months then kick the computer guys ass.


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"you know something? you're fucking beautiful!" -bono, ZOOTV
 
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