Seems we have an awful lot of Jane Fondas here...

[WARCHILD]

I honestly hope that your apparent fondness of Bin Laden, Hussein,and every other scum of the earth(including the American ones), doesnt come up and bite you on the ass one day.
I hope they never blast you and your loved ones into pieces,and i hope that when you walk up to them and apologize for what your country has done to them, and hand them a flower and a plate full of cookies,i hope they treat you with the same respect you show them.

Oddly enough, i fear they wouldnt...Gee, i wonder why????

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[frogbat]

my compliments on yet another antagonising post, feeding words into others' mouths, making general accusations whereas u fail to mention individuals and continue to fuel the angst and friction in this forum, i c.. very mature as always

u are doing all a very good job at mourning i'm sure.. and making other's revulsed. I personally have had enough of this shite. U're accusing others of certain actions and not looking at the trouble you yourselves are causing, I compliment you on your ignorance. I've said nothing b4 cos it's not my place being a non us citizen and I have enough respect for the fact you have a right to be upset, but this is going beyond the rediculous. You have my pity.

 

[frogbat]

and yes, i do realise that the above reply smacks of hypocracy, then again at least I can recognise it

[This message has been edited by frogbat (edited 09-14-2001).]

 

[80sU2isBest]

Frogbat, what YOU failed to mention is that most of the time, the people like Bama, MadelynIris, Miss McPhisto, me and others have been RESPONDING to people who have made some outrageous statements about how somehow, America desereved this or had it coming.

 

[Diemen]

I have to agree with frogbat.

The fact that people jump on anyone saying even the slightest comment that hints that the US isn't perfect is a shame and is pathetic. Our national pride may be running rampant these days and with good cause, but don't let it put blinders on you to unpleasant realities.

I love my country. I realize the incredible luck I have to live in this country that affords me such a good quality of life and so many opportunities. Our great nation is overwhelmingly ruled by the pursuit of justice and freedom for all, and I am truly proud of that. However I refuse to simply ignore the fact that there are some things that the US has done and continues to do that causes problems elsewhere in the world.

Just because some of us acknowledge the fact that the US has some flaws of it's own in absolutely NO WAY makes us sympathizers with Bin Laden and I find what you wrote a very unfair, prejudiced and hateful thing to say. I am all in favor of military retaliation against Bin Laden. But don't think that simply bombing the shit out of his groups is going to solve the problem in and of itself.

[This message has been edited by Diemen (edited 09-14-2001).]

 

[frogbat]

blah my eyes are so tired i'm skippin a line eachtime i read blah...

indeed, 80s.. however, i've read many accusations of people being sympathisers when those accused clearly agreed that those terrorists needed to be eradicated and reiterated it countless times

[This message has been edited by frogbat (edited 09-14-2001).]

 

[Salome]

you can't catch a bat

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Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

 

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by frogbat:
80's i was addressing the persons who replied to this post in agreeance with warchild (as well as warchild and obviously the others u mentioned), then again i thought u were intelligent enough to figure that out, turns out i was right.. turns out i also admitted my hypocracy... shame on you
[This message has been edited by frogbat (edited 09-14-2001).]

Okay, I'll admit that maybe we were stoking the fires when we replied. In don't think we were trying to. For me, I was just venting because I am tired of the abuse hurled at the USA by some.
By the way, I am intelligent enough to figure out what you were talking about. Did you or did you not use the phrase "yet another antagonizing post"? By using that phrase, you were discussing other threads, not just this one. All I was pointing out was that we wouldn't be having to vent if people down the line hadn't chosen this very inappropriate time to criticize America and somehow attaching blame to us.


[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 09-14-2001).]

 

[frogbat]

u quoted me b4 i reread what u said hehe.. anyways.. at times people have asked for that criticism such as in posts like "why do these people hate us" etc..

it's also a cultural thing.. I personally would look at my own government to question why and how this was allowed to happen.. why is there such lax security? (profits might be an answer).. why is the CIA so fragile while the administration is asking for money for other military projects that would clearly never protect against such attacks..??

criticism is healthy even in times of despair.. look at the mistakes and take action taking into account those mistakes and nail those bastards.. cos this situation is bigger than america versus a bunch of camel shepherds

both "camps" prolly need to tone down in their posts etc pointing the fingers all the time isn't gonna help any1 that is mourning or those people...

 

[WARCHILD]

I think America is perfect?????
I am one of the first ones to criticize this country,a dn attack the government for a lot of the things they have done - To other AMERICANS as well as foreigners.
If the terrorists had gone after the individuals they feel are responsible for whatever it is American has done to them (ie The President, Congress, etc, etc) I would still be raging mad and demand that these twits be punished, but i wouldnt be quite so fired up about it. After all, if they didnt hurt innocents,and they left people who had little or nothing to do with it alone, then thats fair enough. I myself would like to see some of those pols punished, esp those in local government.
But that isnt what they did. they hurt innocent people, and for that they must die.

And you seem to think i am wishing ill will on those who disagree with me, i believe i said otherwise...In fact I am trying to help you by warning you of what they will do to you when you show them allll the love you feel for them. Go back and read it over.

[This message has been edited by WARCHILD (edited 09-14-2001).]

 

[DoctorGonzo]

I honestly hope that your apparent fondness of Bin Laden, Hussein,and every other scum of the earth(including the American ones), doesnt come up and bite you on the ass one day.

Show me one single post where someone here showed a liking to Osama Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein.

Oddly enough, i fear they wouldnt...Gee, i wonder why????

You are crossing the line into libel.

 

[MadelynIris]

Well... I think it divisions are going to get worse, unfortunately.

When the war commences, sadly many here will sadly turn on each other (as we've started to see).

What can I say? We are all different. We all have different backgrounds, different motivations, and different goals.

I find my self identifying with those that believe the same way I do.

What can I say is that, when it comes to playing on the same team, you have to have total trust in those people. It's fine to debate over the details when you're lives aren't at stake, but when they are, you have to have total trust in the people on your team.

Anyway, with that said, I think it's healthy to have everyone weigh in on this. It keeps everything in perspective. We cover the whole spectrum, and SHOULD HAVE THIS DEBATE. But also understand, that this is a fight for our lives, and will this debate will be very heated, and very passionate.

Mark

 

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by frogbat:

criticism is healthy even in times of despair.. look at the mistakes and take action taking into account those mistakes and nail those bastards.. cos this situation is bigger than america versus a bunch of camel shepherds

both "camps" prolly need to tone down in their posts etc pointing the fingers all the time isn't gonna help any1 that is mourning or those people...

I agree that constructive criticism is healthy, but I don't think criticism at this time (less than 4 days after the attack) is appropriate. I think people should have more consideration for the mourning...not just those who lost a loved one, but for all citizens of the US. We have all lost something, here.

I do not consider YOU to be one of the insensitive ones at all, I believe that you haven't said anything of the kind...but I could name 2 or 3 who have been VERY damn insensitive. But I won't don't wanna stoke the fires anymore.

We okay?

 

[frogbat]

I agree with madylyinIris, however, posting stuff just for the sake of antagonisation and also launching personal attacks which imho are unfounded and uncalled for, lowers those of similar opinions in the same bracket and does not help their arguments. This goes for either side of the spectrum as well as those in between.. people's lives have been lost, innocent lives.

 

[WARCHILD]

Well, to show that those of us who support violent punishment torwards terrorists and other scum are generally very peaceful and good natured individuals, I have posted a link to what i think is a gorgeous piece of work under Dream Out Loud. Enjoy and take care...
http://www.u2news.com/u2feedback/Forum15/HTML/000728.html

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{AIM HIGH}

[This message has been edited by WARCHILD (edited 09-14-2001).]

 

[Rono]

Wow, i want to give Jane some flowers. I like
her videos.

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I can`t change the world but i can
change the world in me.

Read you, Rono.

 

[MadelynIris]

WARCHILD,

I agree. Sometimes, I have to think to myself about his group. Yes, we are diverse, from different nations, different religions and cultures...

Because of this, some people don't share the same views on this and on our action.

But I think there is one way to boil it all down. About where you stand that is.

I think back on the story of the United Flight in Pennsylvania, where after several phone calls, they determined that their fate was indeed doomed, and took a vote on whether or not to fight back.

Which way would you have voted? It's obvious from some of the posts here. If I haven't been clear through mine, I definitely would have voted to fight back.

I'm afraid that alot of people, after the fact will answer that they would fight back, but honestly, search deep. Put yourself in that situation. I know some of you would have voted to 'reason' with them, or try for a diplomatic resolve. Just be honest.

What about you?

Mark
http://www.mp3.com/madelyniris

[This message has been edited by MadelynIris (edited 09-14-2001).]

 

[U2Gator]

who is jane fonda waht did she do?

 

[80sU2isBest]

Warchild, I agree. Some people think that just arresting these monsters will do the trick. Some people refuse to face the facts.

 

[U2Bama]

That's a good question, Madelyniris:

Would it be rude, violent, un-Christian or unjust to fight back against the hijackers during the hijack?

Not to me; it would be more like lifting a hand to save a drowning man on the Sabbath.

~U2Alabama