Rate the Song: Crumbs from Your Table

[BlueSilkenSky]

Well, to me Bono's worst proselytizing (aka: proselytising) is onstage during the Vertigo tour, notably on the Chicago DVD. That is huge over-kill. But I'm never going to have a problem with an opinion or a social consciousness expressed within a song. That is way powerful.

I agree with everything you said.

 

[popacrobat]

5... don't hurt me! It's just one of the few U2 songs I really don't like... and this is going to sound stupid, but one of the main things that bothers me is the grammatical error in the chorus.

I would believe if I was able
But I'm waiting on the crumbs from your table

That "was" should be "were". I know that not many people would catch that, but it still really bugs me. I'm just a stickler for proper grammar, I guess. Also, the music's boring to me. But I agree with the message of the song.

poetic license.

 

[BlueSilkenSky]

Poetic license doesn't mean misusing grammar... though a lot of songs do, but just to make the rhythm fit. Here it would work just as well with "were".

 

[digitize]

Meh. Retaining subjunctive conjugations in English are weird.

Edit: wow, my post about grammar had a grammatical error. Is weird, not are weird.

 

[LemonMelon]

I've written a number of songs with incorrect grammar on that rather minor level, and the rule of thumb is to go with whatever flows off the tongue/fits the rhythm better.

 

[digitize]

One of my biggest U2 annoyances is Streets - it should be Where the Streets Have No Names

 

[BlueSilkenSky]

Meh. Retaining subjunctive conjugations in English are weird.

Yeah, I still get confused sometimes...

Don't mind me, it's just a pet peeve.

 

[The Panther]

One of my biggest U2 annoyances is Streets - it should be Where the Streets Have No Names

Unless his implied meaning is that in the alternative place, by comparison, the streets all have one name. Then he's right.

 

[cobl04]

5... don't hurt me! It's just one of the few U2 songs I really don't like... and this is going to sound stupid, but one of the main things that bothers me is the grammatical error in the chorus.

I would believe if I was able
But I'm waiting on the crumbs from your table

That "was" should be "were". I know that not many people would catch that, but it still really bugs me. I'm just a stickler for proper grammar, I guess. Also, the music's boring to me. But I agree with the message of the song.

I was
You were
He/she was
We were
You were
They were

One of my biggest U2 annoyances is Streets - it should be Where the Streets Have No Names

What numbers said. I'm sure the "name" in the title refers to "where" not "the streets"

 

[lemonfly]

I can't think of anything more boring than rock stars using flawless grammar in all their songs all the time. Some of my favorite lyrics are from the punk rock era. Fuck proper grammar.

 

[digitize]

I was
You were
He/she was
We were
You were
They were



What numbers said. I'm sure the "name" in the title refers to "where" not "the streets"

Technically, "if I were" is correct instead of "if I was" is correct in English if one is speaking about things they wished were the case but aren't. For instance, one should say "if I were smarter, I would have gotten into Harvard", but "if I was rude on the phone last night, I apologize". The former uses the subjunctive mood - something that rarely causes any conjugation differences in modern English, but does in this case, and is more prominent in other languages. I think it's pretty silly that English retains that conjugation and doesn't just say "if I was" for both cases, but technically this is the case.

Also, regarding Streets, if that's the case, then the title is pretty much just a borderline-nonsensical grammatical clusterfuck...

 

[cobl04]

Technically, "if I were" is correct instead of "if I was" is correct in English if one is speaking about things they wished were the case but aren't. For instance, one should say "if I were smarter, I would have gotten into Harvard", but "if I was rude on the phone last night, I apologize". The former uses the subjunctive mood - something that rarely causes any conjugation differences in modern English, but does in this case, and is more prominent in other languages. I think it's pretty silly that English retains that conjugation and doesn't just say "if I was" for both cases, but technically this is the case.

Also, regarding Streets, if that's the case, then the title is pretty much just a borderline-nonsensical grammatical clusterfuck...

I did Italian, so unfortunately I know all about the subjunctive. In the way I use English - and I'm a writer and grammar nazi - it seems a little archaic to me. You've absolutely got me on that technicality, but to me it doesn't seem to be a big deal in English. Certainly not worth arguing about compared to your/you're they're/there/their he's/his mistakes.

Artistic license too. I was always bothered by this line in Crowded House's "Pour Le Monde" - "pour le monde pas pour la guerre", because it should have a "ne" before the "pas". But that's artistic license.

And yes.

I'm drunk.

 

[BlueSilkenSky]

^By artistic liscense, did you mean the words wouldn't have fit into the rhythm of the song, therefore they had to be changed? Because that would make sense...

What's funny is using the correct subjunctive is the thing that bothers me most in grammar. I can't stand it when people use it wrongly. So... I'm just very strange, I guess.

 

[BVS]

Grammar has never been a requisite in poetry or lyrics. Hell they don't even use punctuation half the time...

If you're correcting grammar while listening to a song then you're not doing it right

 

[cobl04]

Yes, that's what I mean.

I consider myself a grammar nazi when it comes to simple grammar. When it comes to heavy, technical grammar, like subjunctive, I make a shitload of mistakes of my own. It's also harder in English because verb conjugation is much simpler than in European languages.

 

[digitize]

Then I'm really glad I don't write song lyrics. Making grammatical errors knowingly would bug me to no end.

 

[cobl04]

Plus I'm also a massive hip-hop fan, where grammar is completely irrelevant.

 

[The Panther]

What's funny is using the correct subjunctive is the thing that bothers me most in grammar. I can't stand it when people use it wrongly. So... I'm just very strange, I guess.

Well, it's not always clear what is "wrong" with the subjunctive (or indeed, nearly anything that involves difficult grammar). For example, the subjunctive is used much more often in general American English with sentences using verbs like "require", "insist", "demand", etc.

For example: "The test rules require that she finish the exam by 11 a.m."

But it's my understanding that this subjunctive mood is uncommon (or less common) to most speakers of general British English.

In short, cut Bono some slack, dude.

 

[Globo14]

Imagine rock without "ain't".

Fuck grammar. Bring on the rock.

 

[nielsgov]

Artistic license too. I was always bothered by this line in Crowded House's "Pour Le Monde" - "pour le monde pas pour la guerre", because it should have a "ne" before the "pas". But that's artistic license.

And yes.

I'm drunk.

To be fair, many French-speaking people drop the "ne" when talking so it's perfectly normal to write it like that in a song.

 

[corianderstem]

Can someone please smack Michael Stipe for me for "leaving was never my proud" in Leaving New York?

I realize it's more of conscious word choice and the way it fits in the song and not simply grammar (I mean, I'm sure Stipe knows that is not a proper sentence), but it bugs the shit out of me.

 

[digitize]

Can someone please smack Michael Stipe for me for "leaving was never my proud" in Leaving New York?

I realize it's more of conscious word choice and the way it fits in the song and not simply grammar (I mean, I'm sure Stipe knows that is not a proper sentence), but it bugs the shit out of me.

That lyric is embarrassing regardless of how it is defended.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

Can someone please smack Michael Stipe for me for "leaving was never my proud" in Leaving New York?

I realize it's more of conscious word choice and the way it fits in the song and not simply grammar (I mean, I'm sure Stipe knows that is not a proper sentence), but it bugs the shit out of me.

more like, writing that line was never his proud.

 

[mama cass]

I was always bothered by this line in Crowded House's "Pour Le Monde" - "pour le monde pas pour la guerre", because it should have a "ne" before the "pas".

incorrect LOL

"ne ... pas" only goes on either side of a verb in the negative - "ne" isn't used for "opposition" like in the sentence you quoted...

 

[BlueSilkenSky]

Well, it's not always clear what is "wrong" with the subjunctive (or indeed, nearly anything that involves difficult grammar). For example, the subjunctive is used much more often in general American English with sentences using verbs like "require", "insist", "demand", etc.

For example: "The test rules require that she finish the exam by 11 a.m."

But it's my understanding that this subjunctive mood is uncommon (or less common) to most speakers of general British English.

In short, cut Bono some slack, dude.

Okay! Posting about this has made me realize I'm makign too big a deal out of it anyway. Though I seem to have started a discussion on proper grammar.

 

[cobl04]

incorrect LOL

"ne ... pas" only goes on either side of a verb in the negative - "ne" isn't used for "opposition" like in the sentence you quoted...

Alright, I'm not a fucking French major...

 

[mama cass]

Alright, I'm not a fucking French major...

well you shouldn't try to act like one then

 

[cobl04]

Yeah, fair call, on reflection. Mio sbaglio

 

[Aardvark747]

pretty poor. 4