Question for older fans (pre-Achtung Baby)

[sunuvwil]

I’ve recently been wondering how other fans initially reacted to the whole Achtung Baby reinvention. I have been a fan since late 1984 when I started college (yes I am that old). My buddies and I proudly followed U2 through the Live Aid triumph, the Conspiracy of Hope tour, and The Joshua Tree. We even camped out at a local theatre to watch Rattle and Hum the day it was released. Then there was the waiting for what would come next. We didn’t have great forums like this or murky beach recordings to spoil our anticipation for new music. We only had occasional mentions of a new album on MTV or in magazines like Rolling Stone. During that time our attention started to wander to other bands like R.E.M. and The Pixies and we started listening to U2 less and less. Then one evening in the fall of 1991 (September I believe) we came in from a typical Friday evening out, turned on the TV to Friday Night Videos on NBC (anyone remember that show). There was this gritty video playing and one of my friends said, “what the hell is this?” I think I said something like ,“Oh my God is that the Edge?” “This band has to be pretty good if they have The Edge sitting in on a song.” Well, as we continued to watch (and our jaws dropped further toward the ground) we realized we were watching the new U2 video. Of course it was The Fly and it remains one of the most stunning musical episodes of my life. On November 19th of that year (my birthday as well) we stood in line at the local music store to purchase Achtung Baby. They had opened at midnight for the album release so we grabbed a few and drove around till about four in the morning listening and celebrating. One of my friends had pretty much written off U2 and was heavily into bands like Depeche Mode, The Cure, and New Order. Another had gone on to classic rock and blues artists like Stevie Ray Vaughn. Suddenly, we were all on the same page again because of U2. We all pretty much agreed that night that U2 were our Beatles (or at least our Who). We followed it up the following year with our first U2 concert and believe me you have not seen U2 till you have seen them live. I’ve seen a lot of bands and not one of them comes close to what I heard and experienced at Zoo TV. It was the most massive and powerful sound I’d ever heard. Those are my most treasured memories of U2. We don’t see each other as much any more as time and life has pulled us all apart, but every time U2 does something new we always contact one another to talk about it. Anyway, sorry to go on and on. Just wanted to share my history with U2 and see how others felt about U2 in the fall of 91.

 

[timothius]

Great story, but what is the question again?

 

[xaviMF22]

what a great time that must have been to be a U2 fan.

 

[BVS]

The same way they react now...

They thought U2 had sold out.

Making dance remixes, selling sex, incorporating "techno beats", etc...

U2 had lost all sincerity and we're trying to gain a new audience.

 

[MrBrau1]

The same way they react now...

They thought U2 had sold out.

Making dance remixes, selling sex, incorporating "techno beats", etc...

U2 had lost all sincerity and we're trying to gain a new audience.

I agree.

 

[trevster2k]

I remember The Fly being the first single I heard off the new record and yes, was taken aback by it at first. I heard it on Overnight on The Rock Radio Network with Andy Frost, great radio show, sigh, I miss old radio. But after watching the video, and getting the record, I quickly warmed up to the music.

Some people as you said were totally turned off by it but nothing like what happened when Pop was released.

 

[angelordevil]

I remember The Fly being the first single I heard off the new record and yes, was taken aback by it at first. I heard it on Overnight on The Rock Radio Network with Andy Frost, great radio show, sigh, I miss old radio. But after watching the video, and getting the record, I quickly warmed up to the music.

Some people as you said were totally turned off by it but nothing like what happened when Pop was released.

I think I may be a bit younger than you, Trevster. I vaguely recall a late night radio special on OZFM here...maybe this is the one you're referring to? The thing I remember most is how Edge (I think) said that the band came up with the Achtung Baby sound by playing the Joshua Tree backwards. I was so naive, that I believed this to be true!

 

[trevster2k]

Yeah AOD, Overnight was a Toronto based radio show which OZ would broadcast from 1am until about 5am or so. It was fantastic mix of new rock and classic music with a cool DJ.

I never heard that story about the new sound, or I have forgotten it.

 

[Bono's shades]

I remember that U2 had been so quiet for so long that I almost gave up hope of them ever releasing another album - back in those days, bands simply didn't wait that long between album releases. The radio stations where I lived ignored The Fly entirely, so I don't think I even knew U2 had a new album out until I heard Mysterious Ways. I loved the song, but couldn't believe it was U2! I bought Achtung Baby and was mesmerized by it. I listened to it all the time. I worshiped the band in the '80s, but felt they had now reached an even greater level of genius.

I really wasn't that aware of what other U2 fans thought of it. I was living in a weird bubble at that time, I guess, because I didn't know any other hardcore fans. Also, this was pre-Internet. I only knew what I thought of it.

 

[u2granny]

I liked it. I've personally never bought into the old "band sold out" theories. They seem to surface every time a new album is released. Sometimes I think us older farts are more open to new things than younger people.

 

[Pop Artist]

I remember that U2 had been so quiet for so long that I almost gave up hope of them ever releasing another album - back in those days, bands simply didn't wait that long between album releases. The radio stations where I lived ignored The Fly entirely, so I don't think I even knew U2 had a new album out until I heard Mysterious Ways. I loved the song, but couldn't believe it was U2! I bought Achtung Baby and was mesmerized by it. I listened to it all the time. I worshiped the band in the '80s, but felt they had now reached an even greater level of genius.

I really wasn't that aware of what other U2 fans thought of it. I was living in a weird bubble at that time, I guess, because I didn't know any other hardcore fans. Also, this was pre-Internet. I only knew what I thought of it.

Fan since '83, Achtung Baby came out a few weeks before my 30th birthday. My experience is much the same as yours. I was doing a three and a half month fellowship, living temporarily in DC at the time, so I wasn't all that tuned into what was on the horizon. The Fly had missed my orbit entirely, so the first song I heard was Mysterious Ways. Came on the radio one morning in October (I think), while I was getting ready to go to my fellowship, they hadn't said who it was beforehand. The song drew me in immediately, I was like "wow, this is totally radical" yet there was some element of familiarity to it. It usually takes a couple of listens for me to really love any song, but this one had me sucked in and entranced in the first minute. Then after the song, the DJ said it was U2, and I was "Oh yeah, baby, this is gonna be GOOD". And it was. Didn't know anybody else who was into U2, so my enjoyment was on my own.

 

[Danny Boy]

Fan since Unforgetable Fire.

I was in college when Achtung Baby was released. I loved it instantly. I believe it to be U2's second masterpiece, and it was necessary to undo what they had done with Rattle and Hum.

That said, I still feel that Joshua Tree is the pinnacle of their career. U2 had found their stride artistically, but they still had a little of that naive earnestness that can never be recaptured.

 

[U2Kitten]

I don't recall anyone having a problem with AB at all, musicwise. There were a few comments about how 'gay' they seemed in some of the pictures in the CD booklet by a couple people, that's all. The music was not the big shock it's been portrayed as in retrospect. I thought it was a great album and Bono looked very hot.

The rumbles and complaints (at least from those I knew) began with the "Lemon" video, and it was Popmart that really drew the WTF?? and ridicule. But not AB.

 

[hcbiggs2002]

I was at horticultural school when U2 released The Fly and Achtung Baby. I had just over 2 years before gotten into U2 and bought all their albums and all the singles I could get my hands on. I had heard and read that U2 would soon be releasing a new single and album and was looking forward to this event. Espeacially after all the terrible rumours about them breaking up, which came namely from Bonos speach at the end of the last Point Depot concert about "Going away to dream it all up again!"

I'd seen their 'Night and Day' video the previuos year, which, if you've seen it, know that it was quite unlike any of the other videos of date. So I knew that their new material would be just that i.e.New!

But when I first saw The Fly video, which also was the first time I'd heard the song, my reaction was exactly the same as, my jaw just dropped!! I couldn't believe my eyes or hears!!! Bono looked sooooo hot and the sound of the music just like nothing I expected to hear U2 playing.

From that time onwards and with each new U2 album I've now come to expect the same, for them to come up with a look and I sound that's totally new, innovative and exicting!! And they haven't let me down yet!!!

 

[thankyou]

I don't recall anyone having a problem with AB at all, musicwise. There were a few comments about how 'gay' they seemed in some of the pictures in the CD booklet by a couple people, that's all. The music was not the big shock it's been portrayed as in retrospect. I thought it was a great album and Bono looked very hot.

The rumbles and complaints (at least from those I knew) began with the "Lemon" video, and it was Popmart that really drew the WTF?? and ridicule. But not AB.

the amazing thing about U2 is when at the end of the rattle and hum era, they needed to "dream it all up again." And did they ever!
I admire them for creating new sounds, reinventing themselves, daring to try different things, and still all along write meaningful music. I believe that is the stamp of a true artist, to evolve and take risks with music and lyrics they believe in. I think that Achtung Baby, Pop, Zooropa were original and fresh coming from the JT time. I loved all the different eras they've been through. I can't help but think that if they had stayed in the same mode as JT, eventually people would have criticized them for being predictable and always the same. I loved that they were radical. It has made them one of the most interesting bands in rock history.

 

[angelordevil]

the amazing thing about U2 is when at the end of the rattle and hum era, they needed to "dream it all up again." And did they ever!
I admire them for creating new sounds, reinventing themselves, daring to try different things, and still all along write meaningful music. I believe that is the stamp of a true artist, to evolve and take risks with music and lyrics they believe in. I think that Achtung Baby, Pop, Zooropa were original and fresh coming from the JT time. I loved all the different eras they've been through. I can't help but think that if they had stayed in the same mode as JT, eventually people would have criticized them for being predictable and always the same. I loved that they were radical. It has made them one of the most interesting bands in rock history.

Great post

I think it's amazing that I really fell in love with them while they were reinventing themselves in 1991. Being a teenager, I guess I was doing the same thing. If they had stayed in the same mode, as you say, I definitely wouldn't have connected with them as deeply.

 

[corianderstem]

I've been a fan from around Joshua Tree (but a die-hard since Rattle and Hum), and completely loved Achtung Baby when it came out.

I didn't know many other U2 fans at the time, so had no idea how other U2 fans reacted to it.

 

[doctorwho]

I do recall a few "raised eyebrows" when "The Fly" video first came out. But no one said things like "It sucks" or other such nonsense. Die-hards who adored the JT-era U2, enjoyed AB. And I think it's because AB had such good songs - especially something like "One", which helped ease the transition. Also, after R&H, I think even those JT-lovers knew that if U2 made another JT-ish (or R&H-ish) album, it might be "over" for U2.

The complaints started coming in with "Zooropa". Even I have to admit I thought U2 went too far with that album. I heard it in a record store the night it was released. What was this "Lemon" nonsense? "Babyface"? "Numb"? Huh? And I recall even looking at the old U2 albums with a sigh. I didn't even buy the album that night - such was my disappointment. Of course, I later relented and now, barring a token song or two, it is amongst my favorite U2 albums.

Of course, the bitching increased dramatically with "Pop". People came to me complaining of "Discotheque" as if I had anything to do with it! I even heard some complaining about "Miss Sarajevo" and how U2 should not be performing a duet with an opera star (of course, they hadn't heard the song, but why let logic enter the argument?).

AB has stood the test of time as it's U2 at their best. Great vocals, outstanding lyrics (barring a few exceptions), brilliant guitar work and most importantly, a very diverse set of songs. JT didn't have this so much as the songs tended to blend into each other. R&H was a bit like "Zooropa" with its collaborations and feeding off the prior album. "Pop" was U2's attempt, IMO, to capture AB's "magic" again, but in a new vein. Trouble is, the songs weren't as strong, the music not as focused and the direction lacking. U2 "got away" with this big change once, they couldn't quite strike platinum a second time.

Regardless, AB and subsequent works in the 90's, proved to the world that U2 can change their sound and image and still retain fans. PopMart was still a huge success, even if not every stadium was a sell-out. The album still debuted at #1 in 30+ countries and produced a Top 10 hit worldwide. Now that U2 have experimented with "returning to their roots" on ATYCLB and, to a lesser extent, on HTDAAB, it's time they reflect on AB-Pop and see if they can experiment like that again. Given songs like "Fast Cars" and "Love & Peace", I think the answer is "yes". And this time, I don't think fans worldwide will be shocked.

What I worry about more is that the music scene has changed so much, and U2 have clearly aged to the point where kids will have trouble relating. As such, even if the next album is brilliant, can it still sell?

 

[65980]

Good post by DoctorWho. I remember "The Fly" hitting TV in late 1991 when I was 15 and my friend and I were quite impressed. It was a turning point, although I wasn't exactly "shocked" by the sound or anything like the first poster said.

I also don't know if they can still make 17 year-olds listen now that they're middle-aged. But it might work... who knows? If they had stuck with the Joshua Tree sound throughout the 90s they would have kept their old fanbase but never picked up a new one.

 

[U2DMfan]

The same way they react now...

They thought U2 had sold out.

Making dance remixes, selling sex, incorporating "techno beats", etc...

U2 had lost all sincerity and we're trying to gain a new audience.

Yes, but it was the complete 'scene' fashionable morons saying this.

The difference now is quite a departure from then. Now even those who aren't trendies are angry.

If those of you can't figure out the difference, I'll try and explain it or describe it further, but be warned I"ll be insulting you, for sure.

 

[Knuckle]

At the time, Achtung was definitely a "left turn at Albequerque" for U2. For me at least, it seemed that if you had been following U2 for a few years, Achtung took just a little bit of getting used to. That was the point I suppose. U2 was starting fresh and was prepared to leave some the "pop kids" (as Bono put it at the time) behind. (Hmm...just realized that I unintentionally had more than one U2 pun in a single sentence.)

Anyway, needless to say, it didn't take long to get used to Acthung. And, it was good to get a sonic kick in the pants (just when you thought you knew what U2 was all about). I was happy still meditating on the Mojave desert of the American southwest while listening to "In God's Country" and the like. But then came Zoo Station and a whole new locale -- Berlin at a turning point in history to smack me out of my Dalton Brothers trance. The music and the theme was dramatically different; and now I was interested to hear what the Europe of 1991 had to say. [By the way, I really miss U2 albums having a "place" in the world for us to explore...whether it's the desert southwest of the USA, Berlin/Europe, and even (lest we forget) Ireland itself.]

For me, once I really got into Achtung, the defining moment for that album actually came not from the album itself. Rather, it was when I bought the single for "One". I remember going after class to buy it the first day it came out. It was pouring rain outside when I slipped it into my car stereo, turned it up, and started driving home. I couldn't believe my ears listening to "Lady with the Spinning Head", "Satellite of Love", and "Night and Day". I actually pulled over into a parking lot to play it over again and again. I sat there in my car, in the rain, thinking "I cannot believe this is on a single...this is incredible stuff". After that, the whole ZooTV extravaganza just sealed the deal.

 

[cobl04]

Some people as you said were totally turned off by it but nothing like what happened when Pop was released.

Care explaining what happened when Pop was released for a fan with little 90's knowledge? And why is Popmart deemed a failure?

 

[sunuvwil]

Anyway, needless to say, it didn't take long to get used to Acthung. And, it was good to get a sonic kick in the pants (just when you thought you knew what U2 was all about). I was happy still meditating on the Mojave desert of the American southwest while listening to "In God's Country" and the like. But then came Zoo Station and a whole new locale -- Berlin at a turning point in history to smack me out of my Dalton Brothers trance. The music and the theme was dramatically different; and now I was interested to hear what the Europe of 1991 had to say. [By the way, I really miss U2 albums having a "place" in the world for us to explore...whether it's the desert southwest of the USA, Berlin/Europe, and even (lest we forget) Ireland itself.]

I agree completely. The best U2 albums (Joshua Tree, Achtung Bbay, Unforgettable Fire) really take you somewhere. A sonic journey too someplace new. The music is ageless. Achtung Baby still sounds like it could have been recorded yesterday.

 

[bono_212]

I remember The Fly being the first single I heard off the new record and yes, was taken aback by it at first. I heard it on Overnight on The Rock Radio Network with Andy Frost, great radio show, sigh, I miss old radio. But after watching the video, and getting the record, I quickly warmed up to the music.

I wish I could've been around to have witnessed this moment, I didn't even get to enjoy the change with Pop...darn me being a 2000 beginner...

But it is sad about mising old radio...I tried to request the fly on a Chicago radio station, and the guy said he had never even HEARD of that song...the sad thing was he was giving away U2 tickets, and acting like their biggest fan.

 

[BluRmGrl]

I remember hearing The Fly & thinking, 'Oh my God! - THAT'S U2?!?!?' It was SUCH a departure from JT & R&H (which were & are 2 of my favorite albums), I just didn't know what to make of it at first. I wasn't sure I was going to like the new album. Of course, then Mysterious Ways came along - about the time I got my hands on the new CD & starting listening to it in its entirety - and I was a goner. I learned at that point I was in for a great ride if I stuck with these guys - they could be so unpredictable yet so consistent at the same time. One more reason I love them so much - they've shown time and again that they're multi-dimensional and in constant flux, just like everyone else.

 

[jacobus]

i am a fan since 1983, but i got addicted with TUF. i love TJT & Rattle & Hum. when i first heard THE FLY on the radio i was pretty amazed and thought wooooooooooooow! absolutely astonishing. great rock 'n roll and a bit of psychodelic / underground. AB became my alltime fave record. there's nothing that is better.
then ZOOROPA: it was different with some strange sounds but i still love it. then POP. its a love/hate/love affair. first i loved it for one year, then i started to dislike it for 6 years and now i love it again. POP is the rough diamond in U2s history.
from 1980 to 1997 U2 was a great band, doing some extra-ordinary stuff. unfortunately imo their magic has gone. i hardly find some interesting music on their last 2 albums. sorry.
but i still adore all of their music from 1980 - 1997.

 

[BVS]

Yes, but it was the complete 'scene' fashionable morons saying this.

The difference now is quite a departure from then. Now even those who aren't trendies are angry.

I'm saying the same lines were being thrown out there.

"they sold out"

"they're just trying to get a bigger audience, by appealing to the young MTV crowd"

 

[U2mixer]

U2 were taking themselves, and their lives, too seriously in the 1980s and we've all heard the 'Dream' speech, so it was great to see the band having fun and taking risks!

No more po-faced black and white JT/RAH era imagery - now it was ALL colour ALL loud ALL strange and ALL exciting!!!

The band didn't 'jump on any bandwagon' - hey, they jumped into a trabant for fucks sake

They were at their 'peak' here (even though TJT is arguably their musical peak) and the lads looked like they were LOVING IT!

Even though PopMart is my tour, Zoo is a very close second and that's because the ideas and the imagery of the tour is fantastic, over the top and totally 'out there' (PopMart's mother).

AB had to happen.

The band had to reinvent U2 because the music had stalled.

AB was a catharsis.

 

[beegee]

Yes, but it was the complete 'scene' fashionable morons saying this.

nope, i was saying it too.

and unless you call spending my days going to classes, working full-time, and planning a wedding 'fashionable,' i was hardly a part of any 'scene.'

sunuvwil, it's too bad, being a fan so long, that you never managed to catch them on the joshua tree tour. now those were shows.

 

[phanan]

I do recall a few "raised eyebrows" when "The Fly" video first came out. But no one said things like "It sucks" or other such nonsense. Die-hards who adored the JT-era U2, enjoyed AB. And I think it's because AB had such good songs - especially something like "One", which helped ease the transition. Also, after R&H, I think even those JT-lovers knew that if U2 made another JT-ish (or R&H-ish) album, it might be "over" for U2.

The complaints started coming in with "Zooropa". Even I have to admit I thought U2 went too far with that album. I heard it in a record store the night it was released. What was this "Lemon" nonsense? "Babyface"? "Numb"? Huh? And I recall even looking at the old U2 albums with a sigh. I didn't even buy the album that night - such was my disappointment. Of course, I later relented and now, barring a token song or two, it is amongst my favorite U2 albums.

Of course, the bitching increased dramatically with "Pop". People came to me complaining of "Discotheque" as if I had anything to do with it! I even heard some complaining about "Miss Sarajevo" and how U2 should not be performing a duet with an opera star (of course, they hadn't heard the song, but why let logic enter the argument?).

AB has stood the test of time as it's U2 at their best. Great vocals, outstanding lyrics (barring a few exceptions), brilliant guitar work and most importantly, a very diverse set of songs. JT didn't have this so much as the songs tended to blend into each other. R&H was a bit like "Zooropa" with its collaborations and feeding off the prior album. "Pop" was U2's attempt, IMO, to capture AB's "magic" again, but in a new vein. Trouble is, the songs weren't as strong, the music not as focused and the direction lacking. U2 "got away" with this big change once, they couldn't quite strike platinum a second time.

Regardless, AB and subsequent works in the 90's, proved to the world that U2 can change their sound and image and still retain fans. PopMart was still a huge success, even if not every stadium was a sell-out. The album still debuted at #1 in 30+ countries and produced a Top 10 hit worldwide. Now that U2 have experimented with "returning to their roots" on ATYCLB and, to a lesser extent, on HTDAAB, it's time they reflect on AB-Pop and see if they can experiment like that again. Given songs like "Fast Cars" and "Love & Peace", I think the answer is "yes". And this time, I don't think fans worldwide will be shocked.

What I worry about more is that the music scene has changed so much, and U2 have clearly aged to the point where kids will have trouble relating. As such, even if the next album is brilliant, can it still sell?

I was in college when The Fly came out. My first reaction was something like, "What the hell?" But then the album came out, and I was able to listen to the whole thing a few times, and then I realized then and there how brilliant U2 really were.