question about "zoo tv" and "cant help falling in love"

[MattFromNYC]

in zootv live in sydney, at the end during "i can't help falling in love with you", theres some points where the mic was very far from his mouth, when pulling it away during singing, and his voice sounded still very clear as if the mic was right in front of him. he was also using a wireless microphone, do these kinds of mics help make things better like that? or was that song pre-recorded or redone in the studio afterwards? i doubt thats lip-synching, so thats why i am asking.

i gotta rewatch it to describe the exact spot i saw it most in. its the only song i really notice this in. but it kinda happened during "bullet the blue sky/running to stand still" where he was also using a wireless mic.. but this was attached to his head during RTSS... so who knows.

anyone know anything about this stuff or how those songs were done during this show?

also, isnt the zoo sydney taped from two separate nights? if so, which songs were from which?


someone was saying that he could be using an additional body mic or something to have helped with that? does anyone know what he used during that part, or when seeing them live then?

thanks!

 

[Miricale_Drug]

erm radio mics have slihglty beter pickup than a line mic but not noticably (sorry i haven't watched zootv)

Some artists (Robbie inc) have had mics totally for show in the past and used them as a show tool and had a clipon l'apel mic on their body hidden . However they dont let people realise this easily. (Did u neva wonder y on live at knebworth robbie can drop that mic and not create a massive bang?)

 

[MattFromNYC]

does anyone know if there was maybe a technical difficulty during the original taping and they just redid parts in the studio or used from a different show?

 

[Earnie Shavers]

There were sound problems with the original broadcast of that concert, so maybe they have fixed it here and there, but I don't think it's a composite video of the two nights in Sydney. The first night in Sydney is the infamous night that Adam missed, and it would be pretty hard to mix two shows together without that being pretty obvious.

 

[ultraviolet7]

I don't know about this show in particular but most (if not all) shows undergo re-recording of parts in the studio. Re the mic - they could have used the wireless for that particular part (which could have been used as a back-up) but there might have been some sonic differences if the rest of the song was picked up by the regular mic. Perhaps the wireless pickup was used for all that song or else the whole vocal for the song was re-recorded in the studio.

 

[MattFromNYC]

he didnt have another mic there. it was when he was doing the macphisto character and was way out on the B stage in the middle of the crowd. all he had was the wireless mic. but i have been told just within the hour that the wireless mic would not create any special or better vocal pick-ups when the mic is being held way out further from him. but the mic was pretty far from him to be that clear and close sounding.

i forgot the exact lines this happened during, but the whole 'sound' of the performance of that song seemed a little different from the previous ones right before that.

PLEASE DONT THINK IM TRYING TO START ANY RUMORS. i'm not. i just wanted to know what that was about.

 

[david]

my guess is that if in the video there is a shot of him with the mic nowhere near his mouth and yet he's still singing odds are they overdubbed him singing it from a different show or something. i mean they always do this anyway with dvds and videos i believe. slane had footage from the night before, boston had mixed footage.

you get the idea.

 

[MattFromNYC]

no, he's singing it... and its in synch just fine. just the mic he had pulled in front of him really far, but it was still pointing to his mouth. just was way out and seemed no different opposed to when he had it right against his mouth. you could even hear the hiss of his voice as if it were a breath click right into the mic.
like when he sang the "c" in "cant... (help falling in love..)".

that i would think would not happen at all unless it was right there under his nose. but it all remained well in synch with the song and his mouth movements.

 

[MattFromNYC]

i dont really think its an overdub because of how perfect its aligned. the vocals and his mouth movements and fitting together just fine. i just had no idea why theyd need to overdub this one song. he played lemon, with or without you.. at the b stage.. and went right into love is blindess while there and then mixed that in with the Cant help falling in love song. so it was like one long mix. the others sounded fine.. however love is blindess seemed different too and things seemed "off". so, it ewas those last 2 songs.

 

[ImOuttaControl]

Not an overdub, Bono's singing it live and clear. Dynmamic mics pick up quite well when someone is singing loudly--Bono is a very loud singer. He's usually basically screaming or in this instance he is singing very hard, loud falsetto. Mics have no problem picking up a singer who's singing a falsetto like that up to 18 inches away or so.

He's pulling the mic away to get a crystal clear falsetto. The way a dynamic microphone works is that the closer you sing to it, the more bass it picks up (along with any flaws in the singing). When you pull the mic further away from your mouth, the bass drops, treble goes up and it's much more difficult to hear little flaws. I'm in a band myself and have learned a lot about this stuff...most people don't realize that there are right and wrong ways to sing into a mic-- learning proper technique for different situations is vital if you want to get a certain sound.

 

[ultraviolet7]

The way a dynamic microphone works is that the closer you sing to it, the more bass it picks up (along with any flaws in the singing). When you pull the mic further away from your mouth, the bass drops, treble goes up and it's much more difficult to hear little flaws. I'm in a band myself and have learned a lot about this stuff...most people don't realize that there are right and wrong ways to sing into a mic-- learning proper technique for different situations is vital if you want to get a certain sound.

Any directional mic (dynamic or not) boosts the low end. The proximity effect (that's the tech name for the bass boosting effect) is a function of directivity and not of capsule type. Certain directional condensers have a more noticeable proximity effect than dynamics. Shure's SM81 is a good example. Besides that, treble does not go up, when you move away from the mic, it´s only the bass boost to drop. I thought it may interest you if you are in a band.

 

[MattFromNYC]

Not an overdub, Bono's singing it live and clear. Dynmamic mics pick up quite well when someone is singing loudly--Bono is a very loud singer. He's usually basically screaming or in this instance he is singing very hard, loud falsetto. Mics have no problem picking up a singer who's singing a falsetto like that up to 18 inches away or so.

He's pulling the mic away to get a crystal clear falsetto. The way a dynamic microphone works is that the closer you sing to it, the more bass it picks up (along with any flaws in the singing). When you pull the mic further away from your mouth, the bass drops, treble goes up and it's much more difficult to hear little flaws. I'm in a band myself and have learned a lot about this stuff...most people don't realize that there are right and wrong ways to sing into a mic-- learning proper technique for different situations is vital if you want to get a certain sound.

But he wasnt singing a falsetto or any high part when this happened.. its one of the really lower, softer parts. i forget the exact part. if you watch it... you'll see what i mean. the 'cant help falling in love', part.
its really obvious. i wasnt even looking out for anything like that. it just popped out at me.

could it have perhaps been also a body mic, too? he could have been wearing one for sure in that macphisto suit he was wearing, especially since it was happening right at the encore.. when he was coming from backstage putting the macphisto makeup and stuff on and came out to the stage to make the phonecalls. maybe they had it like that. who knows.
do you have the zootv concert on tape?

 

[ImOuttaControl]

Any directional mic (dynamic or not) boosts the low end. The proximity effect (that's the tech name for the bass boosting effect) is a function of directivity and not of capsule type. Certain directional condensers have a more noticeable proximity effect than dynamics. Shure's SM81 is a good example. Besides that, treble does not go up, when you move away from the mic, it´s only the bass boost to drop. I thought it may interest you if you are in a band.

Yeah I know what you mean.. I my brain moves faster than I type most the time. I meant to say that the bass goes down so you get more of a clear treble sound. The treble doesn't go up magically or anything...the bass and "warmth" just drops down, leaving the treble to it's lonesome.

I'm sort of an idiot when it comes to the technical stuff to be honest...I'm the singer(and rhythm guitar player for some stuff--the bono of my band ) I just know that I've got to the point where I know where to hold the mic, and if I'm really screaming or hitting a falsetto I always hold the mic a lot further away than usual---otherwise it sounds like shit.

 

[ImOuttaControl]

But he wasnt singing a falsetto or any high part when this happened.. its one of the really lower, softer parts. i forget the exact part. if you watch it... you'll see what i mean. the 'cant help falling in love', part.
its really obvious. i wasnt even looking out for anything like that. it just popped out at me.

Hmmm...I'll have to watch it again cuz it's been a while. From memory I just remember him pulling the mic far back for the falsetto...but it'd be weird if it picked up that clearly if he was singing softly.

The easiest way to figure this out once and for all is to find someone who has the live broadcast and see if the vocals arethe same..

 

[MattFromNYC]

I just know that I've got to the point where I know where to hold the mic, and if I'm really screaming or hitting a falsetto I always hold the mic a lot further away than usual---otherwise it sounds like shit.

yeah but he wasnt singing that way. he was doing the really low, softer parts of this song. and he didnt appear to be putting much effort into the vocal either.. like a very soft singing.

oddly though.. during "lemon".. he held it really close to him.



heres what some other people on a google musicians tech board said:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group...f32ad/441f0112e3659658?hl=en#441f0112e3659658


http://groups-beta.google.com/group...06837/721d6459aa67a56c?hl=en#721d6459aa67a56c

 

[MattFromNYC]

this was november 27, 1993 date right?

 

[BVS]

I've watched the tape and checked out my bootlegs from the two shows. I really don't see what you are talking about, both boots sound is fine there's no loss in Bono's vocals. I really don't even see where he pulls the mic out far enough where it would be out of range. It looks to me like proper mic technique for his voice.

Also sidenote but has a little to do with this: If you ever watch the making of Do They Know It's Christmas there's a very interesting part when, I can't remember if it was Simon Le Bon or who, but anyways he says something to the effect of "I just remember the volume of Bono's voice. We all sang our lines next to the mic, but Bono recorded his line far back from the mic. I've never seen anyone with that kind of volume"(Of course I'm paraphrasing but that was the just of it)...and if you see the video he's right.

 

[MattFromNYC]

I've watched the tape and checked out my bootlegs from the two shows. I really don't see what you are talking about, both boots sound is fine there's no loss in Bono's vocals. I really don't even see where he pulls the mic out far enough where it would be out of range. It looks to me like proper mic technique for his voice.

Also sidenote but has a little to do with this: If you ever watch the making of Do They Know It's Christmas there's a very interesting part when, I can't remember if it was Simon Le Bon or who, but anyways he says something to the effect of "I just remember the volume of Bono's voice. We all sang our lines next to the mic, but Bono recorded his line far back from the mic. I've never seen anyone with that kind of volume"(Of course I'm paraphrasing but that was the just of it)...and if you see the video he's right.

oh yeah. i forgot about the "do they know its christmas" thing. i remember that.

but like i said, at this part during zootv, he isnt singing any vocals loud enough or sharp enough to make him pull it further out. thats what was so weird. and it was, i think he had it up to his mouth.. went to sing "but i cant help.. falling in looove with youuuu" and right in the middle of the sentence.. he slowly moved the mic away from himself.. kinda getting into macphisto character, and the vocal doesnt fade off into the distance or anything even as hes moving it. its just as if he still had it close to his mouth.

i gotta watch it again tomorrow or something and get the exact spot and post it here. my vcr was in use by my wife, most of the day. LOL. so, tomorrow hopefully i'll get it. im heading to bed in a few mins now.