pop vs. atyclb

[Earnie Shavers]

OK then, so what makes a good rhyme?

Heavy as a fuck.

 

[BVS]

I don't know... something less elementary like

Tell me, tell me the story
The one about eternity
And the way it's all gonna be

That's actually a pretty weak lyric. It's saved by how it's sung, but it's a weak lyric on it's own.

 

[Lancemc]

I think it's great when these two albums can just get together and live in peace, like when the band performed Wake Up Dead Man/Stuck In a Moment. That was gorgeous.

 

[Zoots]

Look, you can say what you want about ATYCLB's lyrics being "cheesey", but there is some real masterful stuff there:

"Grace, she carries a world on her hips
No champagne flute for her lips
No twirls or skips between her fingertips
She carries a pearl in perfect condition

I agree that there is beauty in those lines, it's just the rhymes seem a bit rushed at least to me.

What once was hurt
What once was friction
What left a mark
No longer stings
Because Grace makes beauty
Out of ugly things

Grace makes beauty out of ugly things"

Oh I DO like that part. For every set of bad lyrics, there seems to be one section of the song where there are inspiring lines such as...

And if the night runs over
And if the day won't last
And if our way should falter
Along the stony pass

Home
Hard to know what it is
If you never had one
Home
I can't say where it is
But I know I'm going
Home
That's where the hurt is

Who's to say where the wind will take you
Who's to say what it is will break you
I don't know
Which way the wind will blow
Who's to know when the time has come around
Don't want to see you cry
I know that this is not goodbye
It's summer, I can taste the salty sea
There's a kite blowing out of control on the breeze
I wonder what's gonna happen to you
You wonder what has happened to me

Slow down my beating heart
Man dreams one day to fly
A man takes a rocket ship into the skies
He lives on a star that's dying in the night
And follows in the trail
The scatter of light
Turn it on
Turn it on
You turn me on
Slow down my beating heart
Slowly, slowly love

I'm still standing
I'm still standing where you left me
Are you still growing wild
With everything tame around you
I send you flowers
Cut flowers for your hall
I know your garden is full
But is there sweetness at all

Irish, Italians, Jews and Hispanics
Religious nuts, political fanatics in the stew
Happily not like me and you
That's where I lost you New York

etc. etc.

 

[Zoots]

That's actually a pretty weak lyric. It's saved by how it's sung, but it's a weak lyric on it's own.

I wasn't talking about the whole lyric but strictly the rhyming scheme!

 

[BVS]

I wasn't talking about the whole lyric but strictly the rhyming scheme!

But what's the point of a good rhyming scheme if the lyric is elementary in itself?

I find your analysis of lyrics somewhat confusing.

But hey it's all subjective.

 

[toscano]

1. Discotheque vs Beautiful Day

Tie.

2. Do You Feel Loved vs. SIAM

No contest. DYFL. SIAM is just a complete snoozefest

Pop 1 - ATYCLB 0

3. Mofo vs Elevation

Mofo. Better lyrics. Better song. And for all the "dance" tags this album, it really rocks harder than anything U2 has done since. none more so than Mofo

Pop 2 - ATYCLB 0

4. If God Will Send His Angels vs Walk On

Walk On. A bit cheesy, but the perfect show closer for the elevation tour shows.

Pop 2 - ATYCLB 1

5. Staring At The Sun vs Kite

Kite. Barely.

Pop 2 - ATYCLB 2

6. Last Night On Earth vs In A Little While

Easily LNOE. Rock vs Pop again. Rock wins. Therefore Pop wins.

Pop 3 - ATYCLB 2

7. Gone vs. Wild Honey

(sigh) - Gone. Barely the same band here.

Pop 4 - ATYCLB 2

8. Miami vs Peace On Earth

Don't really listen to either, but live Miami is awesome.

Pop 5 - ATYCLB 2

9. The Playboy Mansion vs When I Look At The World

WILATW could be on Pop. Great lyrics, cynical, rocky,

Pop 5 - ATYCLB 3


10. If You Wear That Velvet Dress vs New York

I hate New York big time.

Pop 6 - ATYCLB 3


11. Please vs Grace

Please is a classic

Pop 7 - ATYCLB 3


12. Wake Up Dead Man vs The Ground Beneath Her Feet

I love the lyrics to WUDM, it is a microcosm of the whole album. TGBHF is a beautiful song. Tie.


Bonus categories:

Lyrics - Pop
Interesting Bass/Drums - Pop
Guitars - Pop
Listenability as an album - Pop
Hit Singles - ATYCLB

Which one do I still listen to and still find interesting fresh and new after years of listening ? Pop.

 

[Zoots]

I hate to compare these albums, I really do. But still feel the need to make my thoughts clear to you guys...

In POP, I see sheer lyrical brilliance on songs like Gone, Please, Mofo, Velvet Dress, WUDM and IGWSHA. I hear a damn impressive rhythm section & guitar on songs such as Discotheque, Do You Feel Loved, Mofo, LNOE, Gone, Miami, Velvet Dress, Please and WUDM.

In ATYCLB I hear gorgeous melodies in songs like Beautiful Day, Stuck In A Moment, Walk On, Kite, In A Little While, Wild Honey, Peace On Earth, Grace.. pretty much the whole album. But I also see a lot of "cheese" and preachy self help type lyrics that have been done before by other musicians. And lyrics that are not abstract enough for my taste maybe, too direct. Not to mention, The Edge is not very impressive IMO although okay his work here is subtly beautiful, so I'll give you that. But the rhythm section is totally neutered compared to Pop. You almost can't even hear Adam or Larry for that matter.

So yeah.. basically I prefer the album with less negatives. But it's okay to disagree since this is a forum.


ETA: I can't believe people are still using track by track comparison to judge these albums. That is probably the single most ridiculous way to compare albums, in my humble opinion.

 

[Lancemc]

ETA: I can't believe people are still using track by track comparison to judge these albums. That is probably the single most ridiculous way to compare albums, in my humble opinion.

Now THAT'S the most relevant thing said in this entire thread.

 

[Bono's shades]

Man dreams one day to fly
A man takes a rocket ship into the skies
He lives on a star that's dying in the night
And follows in the trail
The scatter of light

I'm still standing
I'm still standing where you left me
Are you still growing wild
With everything tame around you
I send you flowers
Cut flowers for your hall
I know your garden is full
But is there sweetness at all

Those are my favorite lyrics on ATYCLB. I just with the rest of the album, including the music, was that good.

 

[LemonMelon]

Look, you can say what you want about ATYCLB's lyrics being "cheesey", but there is some real masterful stuff there:

"Grace, she carries a world on her hips
No champagne flute for her lips
No twirls or skips between her fingertips
She carries a pearl in perfect condition"

It may be no Running To Stand Still, but personally I'll take Grace's lyrics over anything on Pop.

Actually, it sounds like a really, really pathetic attempt at recreating RTSS. That verse you posted is almost exactly the same in structure as the bridge of RTSS.

I also dislike the "rocketship" verse of In A Little While. The best part of that song is "slow down by beating heart...slowly...slowly, love..."

 

[U2Man]

Now THAT'S the most relevant thing said in this entire thread.

but you got an a+ for doing the right thing. sorting them first.

 

[Alisaura]

Two things:

1) I don't believe in the concept of "weak" or "strong" lyrics, up to a point. One person cites a lyric as weak and someone else says the same one is a strong lyric. You like it or you don't.

2) Looking at some of the lyrics quoted from ATYCLB, they seem very stream-of-consciousness in some songs (like Wild Honey at least). Is this Brian Eno's fault?
Maybe Bono was too distracted while they were making ATYCLB and he had to make everything up in the studio... plus I think there was another incidence of lyric-losing/stealing at that time too.

Okay, three things...

3) I don't know squat about studio production, so Pop sounds fine to me.

 

[dazzlingamy]

fuck off with your cheesy naming of songs.

Walk On, IALW, Kite and Stuck are four beautiful songs, that have poiniant lyrics, and i feel it in my heart, they hit me right in my heart when i hear them.

I sing Stuck for a family member, i see his face in my head when i sing it, and i just want to say those words to him. I know it sometimes sounds like too many words are falling from Bono's lips, but the song as a whole just works for me.

Kite, i cried when i heard it, it makes me a little weepy sometimes, it just hits me, i speaks to me

Walk On well if there is any song that i sing at the top of my lungs its this one.

IALW a very very sexy song. I love his raspy voice, its meant to be that way (not lazy singing for me)

but then im a hormonal girl, who thinks too much and feels everything

Now im cheesy

 

[xaviMF22]

fuck off

yes everyone just fuck off

 

[waynetravis]

Discotheque - Beautiful Day
Do You Feel Loved - Stuck in a Moment
Mofo - Elevation (didnt have to think that one)
If God Will Send His Angels - Walk On
Staring at the Sun -KITE
Last Night on Earth - In A Little While
Gone - Wild Honey
MIAMI!!! - Peace on Earth
The Playboy Mansion - When I Look at the World
If You Wear That Velvet Dress - New York
Please - Grace
Wake Up Dead Man - The Ground Beneath Her Feet

 

[xaviMF22]

Discotheque - Beautiful Day
Do You Feel Loved - Stuck in a Moment
Mofo - Elevation
If God Will Send His Angels - Walk On
Staring at the Sun -KITE
Last Night on Earth - In A Little While
Gone - Wild Honey
MIAMI - Peace on Earth
The Playboy Mansion - When I Look at the World
If You Wear That Velvet Dress - New York
Please - Grace
Wake Up Dead Man - The Ground Beneath Her Feet

 

[U2Man]

But how can you call what is probably the most or second most interesting album in U2's catalog, not that interesting?

Have they ever done something like Mofo?
Have they ever done something like Velvet Dress?
Have they ever done something like Miami?
Have they ever done something like Discotheque?
Have they ever done something like Gone?

None of it sounds like anything on even Achtung or Zooropa, let alone their 80s albums!

Actually ATYCLB is the same way. It's very interesting because it's so un-U2. Musically, it's somewhere none of us expected them to go. Who knew they would do something as self-help ish as Stuck. Or something as pretty as Wild Honey? Too bad, the lyrics aren't fully upto par and The Edge doesn't have any jaw dropping licks (IMO) cos otherwise I would consider it a masterpiece without a doubt.

¨

gone sounds rather u2ish to me.

mofo, discotheque, miami: it's just u2 doing something they weren't good at and never will be. something others had done before them.

velvet dress: ok. but musically nothing special.

trying to copy whatever thats popular at the time being, isnt what i call interesting.

trying to explore what you're good at yourself is a completely different matter.

and at the end of the day thats why i regard atyclb as better than pop. on that album, u2 is doing what they do best.

that said, pop was probably a necessary intermediate step.

 

[Zoots]

trying to explore what you're good at yourself is a completely different matter.

That doesn't make any sense. When you're exploring, you don't know if you're gonna be good at it.

And to say that they were good at "the ATYCLB genre" is your opinion, not a fact. Let's keep that in mind.


I don't have the patience to sit and argue about this over and over again. All I know is that while I enjoy both albums, at the end of the day Pop gives me a lot more aural pleasure than ATYCLB. End of story. actually.. end of my opinion.

 

[U2Man]

That doesn't make any sense. When you're exploring, you don't know if you're gonna be good at it.

you can explore without necessarily making an album out of it. u2 keep saying that they don't think that they ever had the chance to finish pop. well, they had almost 4 years! i dont think pop would have been better, even if they had more time. what they should be saying is that they were trying to do things that they couldnt do.

that said, some things on pop does work... the trip-hop beats of please is

 

[Zoots]

that said, some things on pop does work... the trip-hop beats of please is

You're going back and forth now.

Anyway, it looks like you're saying that U2 weren't themselves on Pop and were trying to do something they couldn't. I'm saying that they may not have been themselves on Pop but they did a damn good job at mastering a genre that was totally alien to them. Just difference in opinion. To modify a well known saying... Beauty is in the ear of the listener.

 

[roy]

Beautiful Day
Stuck in a Moment
Mofo
Walk On
Kite
In A Little While
Gone
Peace on Earth
When I Look at the World
If You Wear That Velvet Dress
Please
The Ground Beneath Her Feet

ATYCLB 8 - Pop 4

 

[U2Man]

You're going back and forth now.

Anyway, it looks like you're saying that U2 weren't themselves on Pop and were trying to do something they couldn't. I'm saying that they may not have been themselves on Pop but they did a damn good job at mastering a genre that was totally alien to them. Just difference in opinion. To modify a well known saying... Beauty is in the ear of the listener.

i am only acknowledging that not all of pop is bad. the better half of it is actually amazing. please is in the better half.

i frankly couldnt stand the prodigy, and to see and hear u2 trying to be the prodigy was horrible to my eyes and ears. yeah, they tried to master a genre but they never invented anything. thats why pop cannot be called innovative.

 

[Zoots]

i frankly couldnt stand the prodigy, and to see and hear u2 trying to be the prodigy was horrible to my eyes and ears. yeah, they tried to master a genre but they never invented anything. thats why pop cannot be called innovative.

Okay, 2 things:

a. I loved The Prodigy! And I love dance music and danceable rock music in general like The Killers and Depeche Mode.. if it's not obvious from my sig. So I guess it's not surprising that I enjoy Pop.

b. Second, Mofo is U2 getting inspired by acts like The Prodigy and The Chemical Brothers. I don't see it as U2 simply lifting and copying the exact mechanics of the music from specific songs! That's how you seem to view it.

C'mon! When Pop came out.. they were calling The Edge a genius in the media and saying he is getting sounds out of his guitar that nobody has ever done before! That's some high praise. So you can't blame me for thinking that Pop was innovative. Unless we're well versed in guitar mechanics (which I'm not), we can only trust what the so called experts say.

Wonder what GibsonGirl will have to say about the innovativeness of Edge's guitar on Pop.

 

[dietcokeofevil]

pop all the way

 

[Yahweh_OMG]

POP gets my vote..... 8 - 4

Not even challenging for POP....... but against HTDAAB it could be more challenging......

 

[xaviMF22]

Wonder what GibsonGirl will have to say about the innovativeness of Edge's guitar on Pop.

I know I'm not GG, but I will say that Edge's guitar work on POP is

His work on "Gone" inspired me to pick up a guitar.... .

 

[Zoots]

but I will say that Edge's guitar work on POP is

Yeah exactly! I don't see how that is copying the trends of the time or following The Prodigy. LOL

 

[roy]

C'mon! When Pop came out.. they were calling The Edge a genius in the media and saying he is getting sounds out of his guitar that nobody has ever done before!

Eh...I read a lot of Pop reviews at the time but don't remember that being said.

 

[MullenGirl]

Discotheque - Beautiful Day
Do You Feel Loved - Stuck in a Moment
Mofo - Elevation
If God Will Send His Angels - Walk On
Staring at the Sun - Kite
Last Night on Earth - In A Little While
Gone - Wild Honey
Miami - Peace on Earth
The Playboy Mansion - When I Look at the World
If You Wear That Velvet Dress - New York
Please - Grace
Wake Up Dead Man - The Ground Beneath Her Feet

POP 7 - ATYCLB 5