POP - the forgotten masterpeice

[dietcokeofevil]

I think POP is not a forgotten masterpiece ... at least for the fans. Looking at any POP thread or "Best U2 album" or related polls, POP always ranks high and it's one of the fans favorites (including me of course !!)

Now with the band it's a different story: The band forced themselves to forgot POP, and that's really shameful They destroyed and sent to hell the POP songs (and Numb as well) included on "Best" of 1990-2000, they avoided to play POP and Zooropa numbers on recent tours, except for a few candies, etc

But I think things are changing, Bono cut his hair and looks like Popmart days, The Saints includes Boom Chas (and still nobody knows why ) and the band seems trying to leave behind (AT LAST) the OVERLONG ATYCLB era


Let's see what will happen in the near future

TALK ABOUT ... POP MUSIK

AMEN PONKINE.

I have nothing against the last two albums. They were right for the time. But U2's claims to keeping it fresh are in Jeopardy. Agreed. This last era is wearing out its welcome...like Joshua Tree and Rattle and Hum did in the late 80's into the Lovetown Tour.

POP ROCKS. That's all there is to it.

 

[dietcokeofevil]

Ok everybody...I'm getting really close to another lenghty post about why Pop is truly horrible...but been there, done that. Let's just say that liking Pop doesn't put you in some special "we're cool because we like the worst album" club. Remember, the album actually has to be good.

...said the card carrying member of the "I'm a real U2 fan because I think POP is Crap Club."

 

[dietcokeofevil]

Don't kid yourself...there are plenty of people on here defending this album precisely because it allows them to be the "underdog" "fighting the good fight" and "standing up for the underrated". You're naive to think otherwise. Let's face it, it's not sexy defending The Joshua Tree. There's no glamour in that. And if this case doesn't particularly apply to you, and you genuinely love this album, then so be it. But consider all the times you've stuck up for SOMETHING in part at least because it ran counter to accepted norms or opinions. I know I've done it. It's definitely no different with this album. Perhaps even more so.

Okay, let's get down to the bottom of this. Something traumatic happened to you in 1997 when Pop was released. Girlfriend dumped you, dog ran away, etc. and Pop was on the stereo when it happened. You are forgiven.

 

[coemgen]

Pop is definitely their best after Achtung Baby. Joshua Tree almost makes it, but has a few week songs toward the end. Pop is pretty strong all the way through.

 

[RobH]

Something traumatic happened to you in 1997 when Pop was released.

You're absolutely right. Something terrible happened in 1997. Pop was released.

Now please, go ahead and take another shot at me personally. Don't bother posting about the point of this thread. That's no fun!

 

[LemonMelon]

You're absolutely right. Something terrible happened in 1997. Pop was released.

Now please, go ahead and take another shot at me personally. Don't bother posting about the point of this thread. That's no fun!

Your lack of taste makes me sad. I'm going to go be emo in the corner where I will not disturb anyone further.

 

[RobH]

At least personally, I think that one of the reasons I feel such a need to defend Pop is because the band certainly aren't defending it. They seem to have disowned it, and that bothers me. Perhaps I'm delusional, but from what I've picked up from reading U2 By U2 and other interviews and bits and pieces here and there, I think Bono is proud of the album, he's just not proud of the reception it's gotten.
I think he has a right to be proud of it. I like it. Musically, it may not be the best. It's certainly daring. It has some killer (and quite sexy) basslines, especially the bassline in Do You Feel Loved. I love the guitar in Miami. If You Wear That Velvet Dress is wonderfully atmospheric, with a brilliant "heartbeat" drumbeat. But lyrically is where Pop shines. Maybe not in every song on the album, but certainly in more than half of them. Can you really deny that? Sure, there are some bad lyrics on Pop, but the brilliant ones outway them by far. And I don't think the bad ones are nearly as bad as some of the bad lyrics on All That You Can't Leave Behind.
If I really think about it, musically I probably prefer Achtung Baby. But lyrically, I prefer Pop. Aesthetically, I also prefer Pop.
U2 took a chance with Pop, and it didn't pan out exactly how they hoped it would, but it didn't really fail.
But another reason why Pop defenders defend it so hard is that there are some Pop-bashers that seem to have ridiculous reasons for not liking it. Like the people that call it a dance album. Who the fuck started the rumour that Pop is a dance album? The first quarter of it maybe. And then again, there may be some techno beats, but lyrically, it's far from club music. It seems that a lot of the people out there bashing it never really gave it a chance. And that bothers me. It's like I feel the need to educate them. Because I do think it's great, and that those that aren't giving it a chance are missing out.
But those that have listened to it, several times, over the course of several months, and still don't like it. That's their business, I suppose. Though I still think they're mad


And I really hope this post is coherent. I'm a bit out of it


And typing this post gave me really bad deja vu

Nice post. Definitely more articulate than most Pop defenses.

About the band not defending it: I think you are right when you say that some fans feel the need to pick up the baton that U2 doesn't want to. And that goes back to my original point that many defenders feel they are somehow "righting a wrong". That somehow even THEY know better than the band that made the album! As for getting the "feeling" that Bono is proud, I've never gotten that impression at all. The interviews I've read have him skirting the issue or speaking in terms of 'what could have been'. And I know Larry is not a big fan, based on interviews as well. But admittedly, I have not read U2 on U2.

Musically, perhaps, Pop took some chances--but not to the degree of Achtung Baby and certainly not with such startling results. It came together on that album. It worked as a unit. I would say that musically, Pop is the most disjointed effort of their carreer.
It has no flow.

Lyrically, Pop has always struck me as trying too hard. We all know Bono has the gift of being able to compose wonderful poetry. But we also know he can be quite trite and silly if he tries hard enough. And it seems like he was trying real hard on Pop.

I won't address the whole "dance album" issue, as I don't think that's relevant to whether or not it's a good album. However,I do recall the rumors at the time, and from what I remember, it was not a misunderstanding---someone connected to the band made that statement, and they have been backpedalling ever since. I wonder if they'd still be backpedalling if the album had been well received as 'innovative'?

Strong points? Perhaps. Took chances? I guess. Masterpiece? No.

 

[scottyT]

I really like Pop. Do you feel loved is one of my favorite songs, as is Please. I can only think of a song or two on the album that i think might be weaker (but not bad).

But I can't at all say that this album is one of the band's best. If they redid it now it'd be a thousand times better. HTDAAB is a thousand times better, because they just get after a real theme. It's simple and complex, and it is heavy. Pop is good, and at times great, but it doesn't get out of that, we made these songs quick genre.

 

[BVS]

Pop is a great album that COULD have been an amazing album...

 

[Zoots]

If they redid it now it'd be a thousand times better. HTDAAB is a thousand times better, because they just get after a real theme.

um.. NO.

 

[AtomicBono]

I would say that musically, Pop is the most disjointed effort of their carreer.
It has no flow.

see, I disagree. I find HTDAAB, for example, to be much more disjointed than Pop. Maybe it's just that I'm used to it, but Pop flows perfectly for me. Furthermore, it has a dark ambience throughout that unites the album; an atmosphere that is lost with new, "slicker" mixes.

Lyrically, Pop has always struck me as trying too hard. We all know Bono has the gift of being able to compose wonderful poetry. But we also know he can be quite trite and silly if he tries hard enough. And it seems like he was trying real hard on Pop.

Personal preference I guess, but I think Pop is one of his strongest albums lyrically. Gone is a masterpiece to me... perhaps because I can relate to it. "You get to feel so guilty, got so much for so little/then you find that feeling just won't go away/You're holding on to every little thing so tightly/Til there's nothing left for you anyway" That's just exactly how I feel sometimes.

"Jesus never let me down/You know Jesus used to show me the score/Then they put Jesus in show business/Now it's hard to get in the door"

Surely you can admit those are some good lines with some relevence... and Wake Up Dead Man, shit, lyrically that's gotta be one of his best, period. and of course Mofo has some killer one-liners, like "Lookin' for a sound that's gonna drown out the world."

another thing Bono does very well on Pop is create imagery...Do You Feel Loved and Miami are good examples of this. I know Miami isn't often cited as having great lyrics, and I wouldn't say they're the best, but they are a depature from Bono's typical style of writing, I think.

I could go on and on about this, honestly. In the end, if you don't like Pop, that's fine. You can't change someone's taste. Pop could be the most technically brilliant and well-crafted album ever (which it's obviously not), but it still may not sound good to you. However, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a terrible album.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

I think Pops cohesiveness/flow beats out the Bombs hands down. Lyrically, no contest either. Not even remotely in the same field.

 

[BVS]

I think Pops cohesiveness/flow beats out the Bombs hands down. Lyrically, no contest either. Not even remotely in the same field.

Pop lacks cohesiveness and has some clunkers when it comes to lyrics, it ranks higher than Bomb, but not much...

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Well, I guess it's all in what cohesiveness is to you. Pop ain't no Achtung or Zooropa or even JT in that regard, but I think it's miles ahead of the Bomb, and in every way. Just look at the songs (IMO):

Discotheque/Do You Feel Loved/Mofo/Velvet Dress/Please/Wake Up Dead Man/Gone etc etc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Vertigo/City of Blinding Lights/Miracle Drug/Original/Love & Peace etc etc.

 

[Val]

POP lives!

 

[bonocomet]

Didn't Edge write the first verse of lyrics for Wake Up Dead Man? (The whole f**cked up world thing)

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

but I think it's miles ahead of the Bomb, and in every way. Just look at the songs (IMO):

Discotheque/Do You Feel Loved/Mofo/Velvet Dress/Please/Wake Up Dead Man/Gone etc etc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Vertigo/City of Blinding Lights/Miracle Drug/Original/Love & Peace etc etc.

Miles?

I think they're more even keel than ahead of one or the other. Pop is a good album, HTDAAB is a good album and neither smokes the other one.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Hence the (IMO). I wouldn't rank any of the Bomb songs above or even close to the Pop songs above. !!! IMO !!! Yes, miles.

 

[U2girl]

last post on this topic for me

Pop lacks cohesiveness and has some clunkers when it comes to lyrics, it ranks higher than Bomb, but not much...

What flow/cohesiveness? Worst tracklisting next to Rattle and Hum.

I think Pop tried to outdo both AB as a theme album, and Zooropa in experimenting, but failed on both terms. Noble idea, bad execution. Lyrically, Bono was better on Zooropa and AB.

Next to the awful tracklisting and the worst production on U2's albums (ban Flood from producing, let him mix instead), Pop's biggest problem is not having any great U2 songs and at least a bit of "magic". Which in itself is a bigger crime than having very good songs and clunkers.

It's like watching U2 stumble on their traditional strong terrain: the TM bitterweet love song IGWSHA, U2 can do better than this. The TM big slow song, SATS, U2 can do better than that. Which leaves either rock songs, or political song, to save the day. Gone, while good, is nowhere near the ultimate "U2 rock song" - it should be driven by a riff, not 747 sound, and it really comes alive live and has barely any teeth on the album until the end (no comment on LNOE). Please, again, came alive live and I think was improved on the single version too. I think it won't surpass or match SBS or Bullet in the pantheon of U2's political songs though.

Not even necessarily a One or WOWY, I'd settle for something like Stay.

I enjoy Gone, SATS, Please and IYWTVD, I just think something like BD or Kite or COBL and OOTS is closer to greatness in U2 terms, and it has more "it".

I'd rank all the post-Zooropa albums together, overall.

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

Hence the (IMO). I wouldn't rank any of the Bomb songs above or even close to the Pop songs above. !!! IMO !!! Yes, miles.

Yeah, I didn't catch the IMO until way after I posted. Fair play to you, Earnie.

 

[schnumi]

Pop's biggest problem is not having any great U2 songs and at least a bit of "magic". Which in itself is a bigger crime than having very good songs and clunkers.

Are you for real U2girl? Please isnt a great U2 song? Do you feel loved? Mofo? Last night on earth? etc etc.

There are plenty of great U2 songs on POP.

 

[Utoo]

Pop is great. The real problem isn't the album, but instead the overzealous fans of it and the overzealous detractors of it. Yup, both sides suck.

 

[BVS]

Pop is great. The real problem isn't the album, but instead the overzealous fans of it and the overzealous detractors of it.

I absolutely agree.

 

[FullonEdge2]

Man, I don't have a problem with people not liking POP, but sometimes the arguments people use drive me crazy.

I love Achtung Baby--possibly my favorite U2 album--but it's flow isn't perfect. Come on, who honestly thinks EBTTRT flows beautifully into One? Lyrically, they don't make sense paired with each other, and musically One seems to kill the momentum. AB has other instances of songs following songs that contrast quite a bit; although this does make for an 'emotional rollercoaster' effect, I wouldn't call it great flow.

Now, for those of you who don't think POP flows, where do you think it doesn't flow? The opening three tracks work brilliantly together: the rabid, testy club scene of Discotheque--->heavier, darkness-tinged electronica of DYFL--->the darkest of them all, the unholy, pulsating black hole that is Mofo. These three tracks pump me up like no other when played straight through, and then we finally come to a breather, the perfectly situated IGWSHA. Lyrically, there could be no better follow up to Mofo. Later, we get musical concepts that flow into each other (Miami--->TPM--->IYWTVD). And then, just in case you didn't realize that the world has some serious problems, we have the heart-wrenching political anthem, Please--->dissatisfaction with the world at the most personal level personified in WUDM.


I love the atmosphere in POP. POP encompasses a lot of things, but it still manages to function as a cohesive 'musical philosophy.' While I love HTDAAB, I don't think that album manages to convey a true all-encompassing meaning. No matter how the band tries to rationalize how the songs fit together, the Bomb still sounds like nothing more than a hodge podge of great songs with vague similarities to me.

 

[cstar]

I have to go with Larry when he said in U2 by U2 that POP just wasn't finished. And like him, I look forward to the finished songs, if they ever get around to it!
Great tour, tho!! I had great seats at the Oakland Coliseum, but was too close to get the full impact. (I know, such a problem to have!)
I taped the TV concert broadcast from Mexico (? I think?) but have misplace the tape.... I've been trying to dig it up for ages!

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

Hey cstar I was at the Oakland Popmart shows too!! Those were fantastic shows, especially the second show that only played to a half-full stadium. I say that because instead of letting a half-empty stadium get them down, U2 put on a killer performance. Easily one of the top 5 shows I've ever seen them play.

I, too, agree with the band Pop is an unfinished (possible) masterpiece, not a forgotten one.

 

[grant72]

POP is a great album, i get pissed off when people say bad things about it...

...and so is ZOOROPA

 

[Mogi]

I feel Pop accomplished in some ways exactly what it set out to do-stir alot of shit.

There really has been no album by U2 (or I am thinking about anyone in the last 20 years) that has stirred up more controversy then this gem.

IMO, I think U2 wanted to challenge their fans more than ever before. To challenge what could be acceptable in the mainstream. To deep fry the U2 legend into a pool of modern art grease.

I think the skin of irony was so thick that many people couldn´t penetrate it, thus they stuck the whole "dance album" or " U2 trying to be hip" label on it and threw it in the bin.

But what was missed I think was the whole art of approach with Pop.

Do you really think that they sat around and thought, "I think I would really look hip in a tight muscle shirt." "If I looked like a gay cowboy, young kids would really respect me." "The Village People are what´s cool with kids now."

Hell no. I think they all played a role, just the same as Bono did with the fly.
They played the "I´m 37 years old and want to be hip, so maybe I should get some happening clothes, nice shiney package for the cd, etc.."

I think they basically played the part and used what was in vogue at the moment as a vehicle of their art. I don´t think they were trying to be hip at all. I think they were taking the piss out of the obsession with style and fashion (along with trendy dance music).

Once you get through the layers of irony on Discoteque, it turns out to be quite a deep song and quite dark. That goes for the first three tracks and drives the point home to WUDM where the whole party of the 90´s just runs out of steam and says "FUCK IT ALL, I´ve had enough!"

I think U2 knew going in that many people would not get Pop. Many didn´t and still don´t now.

It´s the most "anti-U2" of them all at the same time, maybe the most spiritual.

Just too bad people got tired of peeling away the layers. What lies beneath is such beauty and sorrow.

 

[cstar]

Hey Reggie -- I only saw the first night at Oakland. I was quite ecstatic as we were able to get like 15th row tickets from an MTV presale! Great vibes & energy that night -- plus a bit of danger... swagger... Oasis helped, I think!

 

[dietcokeofevil]

You're absolutely right. Something terrible happened in 1997. Pop was released.

Now please, go ahead and take another shot at me personally. Don't bother posting about the point of this thread. That's no fun!

It's easy because the topic is silly. An opinion different to yours is relegated to desire to be hip. There will be no convincing you otherwise.

...and you are still forgiven