POP - the forgotten masterpeice

[bonocomet]

It is good.

 

[AtomicBono]

Ok everybody...I'm getting really close to another lenghty post about why Pop is truly horrible...but been there, done that. Let's just say that liking Pop doesn't put you in some special "we're cool because we like the worst album" club. Remember, the album actually has to be good.

lolololz

right because we don't actually like the album because we think it's good, we like it because we want to be in some special club

foo', Pop has been my favourite album since 1997. I didn't know a damn thing about U2 then and certainly didn't know it was a "flop" and I "wasn't supposed to like it" or whatever. my love for Pop is deeply personal and has nothing to do with anyone else's opinion.

 

[laol]

lolololz

right because we don't actually like the album because we think it's good, we like it because we want to be in some special club

foo', Pop has been my favourite album since 1997. I didn't know a damn thing about U2 then and certainly didn't know it was a "flop" and I "wasn't supposed to like it" or whatever. my love for Pop is deeply personal and has nothing to do with anyone else's opinion.

It was the same for me. I fell in love with pop several years before I joined any U2 board.

As far as I remember, pop got good reviews when it came out. I think it would have been much better if Pop had been a big hit, cause then I would have had a much better chance of hearing songs like Gone and Please live again.

 

[Chizip]

i like Pop because i want to be in a club

 

[LuvandPeace1980]

But yeah, I love Pop - but no matter how hard I try, I cannot like Miami. It's one of my least favourite U2 songs. Whereas The Playboy Mansion =

Try it really really really loud..

Pop is an awesome concept, I love it.

It's my original era of U2, it's when I became a fan.. It's the special album to me

 

[LuvandPeace1980]

Pop is superb.

Hey Aardvark!

long time no see

 

[LuvandPeace1980]

because its a big radio hit that all the stinky casual fans love

doesnt mean it rocks as much live

Your right Chizip. I also think comparing the two is unfair because they have a different status.

At Popmart in 1998 I know I preferred LNOE because it just really blew the lid off the arena..

But there is also nothing like 80,000 people all singing the same song.. it's great.

The argument would be the same if they had the oppositte status I bet.

Personally for though LNOE is a brilliant live song.

 

[The Disciple]

Pop is an awesome concept, I love it.

It's my original era of U2, it's when I became a fan.. It's the special album to me

Me 2. I was in High school, fell in love with that album, but didn't become a hardcore fan until about 2002.

 

[Salome]

New Years Day is a classic
not even just a U2 classic

Last night .... is a good song

it's not much of a competition


and unless you count personal preference as a way to qualify an album as a masterpiece then POP is no masterpiece at all
(though a really good album)

 

[RobH]

right because we don't actually like the album because we think it's good, we like it because we want to be in some special club

Don't kid yourself...there are plenty of people on here defending this album precisely because it allows them to be the "underdog" "fighting the good fight" and "standing up for the underrated". You're naive to think otherwise. Let's face it, it's not sexy defending The Joshua Tree. There's no glamour in that. And if this case doesn't particularly apply to you, and you genuinely love this album, then so be it. But consider all the times you've stuck up for SOMETHING in part at least because it ran counter to accepted norms or opinions. I know I've done it. It's definitely no different with this album. Perhaps even more so.

 

[RobH]

It's my original era of U2, it's when I became a fan.. It's the special album to me

As far as this argument goes, then any album qualifies as a masterpiece as long as it's "special" to him or her for some reason. I know somebody who absolutely loved that Color Me Bad album because of the time in her life that it represented. Enough said.

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

As far as this argument goes, then any album qualifies as a masterpiece as long as it's "special" to him or her for some reason. I know somebody who absolutely loved that Color Me Bad album because of the time in her life that it represented. Enough said.

Oh Rob, I've made this argument many, many times. I understand the argument made by those who love Pop, but it still doesn't make Pop a masterpiece.

 

[bonocomet]

I had this long detailed response typed out, then I just said ah crap who cares.

 

[RobH]

Would've been much more interesting to read bonocomet, but I know what you mean. Sometimes it's just like "who gives a f" Other times you've just got to make your point. I chose this battle.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Let's face it, it's not sexy defending The Joshua Tree.

There's nothing to defend, it's unanimously considered a fucking brilliant album in here. Same for Achtung Baby, whose lone dissenting hater is Axver, and he cops a serve from a hundred people everytime he lets his feelings be known. Drop an anti-Joshua Tree thread in here, get 5 or 6 people to post on why they hate it, and watch how sexy defending it suddenly becomes. I think the issue is yours - you need to accept that a hell of a lot of people actually genuinely love Pop and think it's genuinely brilliant.

 

[RobH]

There's nothing to defend, it's unanimously considered a fucking brilliant album in here.

Well, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this comment, as that was my point also. And if Joshua Tree haters came in here, it still wouldn't make it any sexier to defend precisely because it is such a slam dunk. In fact, I would make the exact same argument that many of the Joshua Tree haters are being contrary just for the sake of being contrary. There's no point to it. But Pop defenders seize on this issue like their mother has been insulted. Then they argue every reason in the world as to why it's great except...well...why it's great. I'm yet to read a coherent arguement with at least some objectivity as to what makes this album great. Taste is subjective, but there must be some middle gorund, some commonalities that the art (in this case, music as art) world can agree on that define greatness. Otherwise, my three year old's scribblings are just as great as the Mona Lisa. But I suppose I could find an internet web site to defend that too. I just wouldn't be one of them. Likewise, I know that not everyone who comes on here to praise Pop is just trying to be "different" (ie. "I see it's brilliance and you don't...you just didn't understand it" ..We all know the rap from the defenders) --though I believe it's more than you might think. Sure, there are people who genuinely think that it's great. The only thing I deny is that it is.

I seem to recall you and me and some others getting into a very spirited debate about this some one and a half years ago or so. Looks like little progress has been made!

 

[U2girl]

Key words being "in here" of course.
Pop has never been "unanimously" considered anything, either good, or bad, or great, or average - whatever one's opinion on it may be. If it would be, there wouldn't be endless debates about it and it wouldn't be defended (and I do think the fact that it's the overlooked album in their catalogue does play a role in it) at all times.

 

[shortfuse]

Imnot a fan of the album, its my least favorite U2 album. But I definetely would not call it horrible. It could have been so much better, and its a pity they had to rush the release because of tour commitments.
I do think they should bring back a couple of Pop songs the next time they are on tour, Gone and Last night on earth being the songs that come to mind.

 

[DreamOutLoud13]

But Pop defenders seize on this issue like their mother has been insulted. Then they argue every reason in the world as to why it's great except...well...why it's great. I'm yet to read a coherent arguement with at least some objectivity as to what makes this album great.

At least personally, I think that one of the reasons I feel such a need to defend Pop is because the band certainly aren't defending it. They seem to have disowned it, and that bothers me. Perhaps I'm delusional, but from what I've picked up from reading U2 By U2 and other interviews and bits and pieces here and there, I think Bono is proud of the album, he's just not proud of the reception it's gotten.
I think he has a right to be proud of it. I like it. Musically, it may not be the best. It's certainly daring. It has some killer (and quite sexy) basslines, especially the bassline in Do You Feel Loved. I love the guitar in Miami. If You Wear That Velvet Dress is wonderfully atmospheric, with a brilliant "heartbeat" drumbeat. But lyrically is where Pop shines. Maybe not in every song on the album, but certainly in more than half of them. Can you really deny that? Sure, there are some bad lyrics on Pop, but the brilliant ones outway them by far. And I don't think the bad ones are nearly as bad as some of the bad lyrics on All That You Can't Leave Behind.
If I really think about it, musically I probably prefer Achtung Baby. But lyrically, I prefer Pop. Aesthetically, I also prefer Pop.
U2 took a chance with Pop, and it didn't pan out exactly how they hoped it would, but it didn't really fail.
But another reason why Pop defenders defend it so hard is that there are some Pop-bashers that seem to have ridiculous reasons for not liking it. Like the people that call it a dance album. Who the fuck started the rumour that Pop is a dance album? The first quarter of it maybe. And then again, there may be some techno beats, but lyrically, it's far from club music. It seems that a lot of the people out there bashing it never really gave it a chance. And that bothers me. It's like I feel the need to educate them. Because I do think it's great, and that those that aren't giving it a chance are missing out.
But those that have listened to it, several times, over the course of several months, and still don't like it. That's their business, I suppose. Though I still think they're mad


And I really hope this post is coherent. I'm a bit out of it


And typing this post gave me really bad deja vu

 

[Zoots]

But another reason why Pop defenders defend it so hard is that there are some Pop-bashers that seem to have ridiculous reasons for not liking it. Like the people that call it a dance album. Who the fuck started the rumour that Pop is a dance album? The first quarter of it maybe. And then again, there may be some techno beats, but lyrically, it's far from club music. It seems that a lot of the people out there bashing it never really gave it a chance. And that bothers me. It's like I feel the need to educate them. Because I do think it's great, and that those that aren't giving it a chance are missing out.
But those that have listened to it, several times, over the course of several months, and still don't like it. That's their business, I suppose. Though I still think they're mad

Well said! I boldfaced the part I reeeeally liked in your post.

 

[Bonochick]

Like the people that call it a dance album. Who the fuck started the rumour that Pop is a dance album?

I remember seeing a Bono interview where he said that he told somebody they were making a dense album, and soon word spread that they were making a dance album.

 

[ZooMoFo]

there are some great tunes (tyoons?) on there for sure

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

I remember seeing a Bono interview where he said that he told somebody they were making a dense album, and soon word spread that they were making a dance album.

That was a comment made about Acthung Baby. Bono alluded in interviews Pre-Pop that they were interested in Trip-Hop and Electronica at that time period (95 - 97)...no misunderstanding there at all.

 

[U2Man]

no he said it during an interview done on a bus in dublin, 1997. bonochick is right.

 

[bonocomet]

Would've been much more interesting to read bonocomet, but I know what you mean. Sometimes it's just like "who gives a f" Other times you've just got to make your point. I chose this battle.

Yeah I was going to choose this one too. But it's just that after 6 or 7 pages it starts to all sound the same, like you said above you had the same debate a year ago and little progress had been made. I know you said you are still waiting for someone to give you a coherent arguement as to why Pop is great. Well, I probably can't do that. All I can say is it's the feeling I get when I listen to the songs. I don't think it's something I can really describe coherently. (which is why I deleted my previous post) It's always in my top two albums even though the other seems to change all the time. I guess if I had to choose only one U2 album to go with me to that deserted island it would have to be Pop. I know that's not the coherent arguement you're looking for, but with music, for me anyways, there isn't always one. I just get the best feeling when I'm listening to Pop, it's really like a music induced high, more so than any other album for me.
So there's my 2 cents. It's the incredible way it makes me feel.
Good luck with the battle!

Ok I won't delete this one.

 

[schnumi]

Yeah I was going to choose this one too. But it's just that after 6 or 7 pages it starts to all sound the same, like you said above you had the same debate a year ago and little progress had been made. I know you said you are still waiting for someone to give you a coherent arguement as to why Pop is great. Well, I probably can't do that. All I can say is it's the feeling I get when I listen to the songs. I don't think it's something I can really describe coherently. (which is why I deleted my previous post) It's always in my top two albums even though the other seems to change all the time. I guess if I had to choose only one U2 album to go with me to that deserted island it would have to be Pop. I know that's not the coherent arguement you're looking for, but with music, for me anyways, there isn't always one. I just get the best feeling when I'm listening to Pop, it's really like a music induced high, more so than any other album for me.
So there's my 2 cents. It's the incredible way it makes me feel.
Good luck with the battle!

Ok I won't delete this one.

Great post i feel the same way about POP.

It was one of the last albums i bought of U2 and at first i wasnt that fond of it but now it's my number 1.

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

no he said it during an interview done on a bus in dublin, 1997. bonochick is right.

So basically he repeated himself? I read a Rolling Stone article in 1992 where he made the exact same comment regarding AB.

I guess we shouldn't be shocked...I don't know how many times in the last 6 years I've heard him say "The Edge is really on fire now"....

 

[AtomicBono]

man I had a five paragraph reply to this, no joke. It was about how Pop is awesome because of the layers of sound and the rhythm section and the lyrics and Bono's dynamic voice and Edge's guitar and all this stuff, but then my internet went away and said it hated me

 

[Zoots]

man I had a five paragraph reply to this, no joke. It was about how Pop is awesome because of the layers of sound and the rhythm section and the lyrics and Bono's dynamic voice and Edge's guitar and all this stuff, but then my internet went away and said it hated me

Arghh that sucks! There's not much else worse than typing up a lengthy post, not saving it and having your fucking internet die on you!

 

[FullonEdge2]

man I had a five paragraph reply to this, no joke. It was about how Pop is awesome because of the layers of sound and the rhythm section and the lyrics and Bono's dynamic voice and Edge's guitar and all this stuff, but then my internet went away and said it hated me

A beautiful post it still is, Atomicbono--brief due to your internet collapsing, but I totally agree.