Pop backlash

[DreamOutLoud13]

To add some fuel to the fire:

ATYCLB - Amazon.com Sales Rank: #644 in Music
Pop - Amazon.com Sales Rank: #5,512 in Music

That's because ATYCLB is owned by a bunch of people that really liked hearing Beautiful Day and Elevation overplayed on the radio, but didn't really know/care anything about U2 before then

 

[ntalwar]

That's because ATYCLB is owned by a bunch of people that really liked hearing Beautiful Day and Elevation overplayed on the radio, but didn't really know/care anything about U2 before then

That's mostly true. But, War and several other older albums are outselling Pop as well.

 

[Foxxern]

That's mostly true. But, War and several other older albums are outselling Pop as well.

Pop just isn't that radio-friendly of an album. But with a band like U2, you get that sometimes. Hell of a lot better than a band like Nickelback that tries to make everything sound "pleasant" to everyone. Sure, sometimes they put out stinkers... but it comes with the risks the band takes to stay relevant.

 

[catlhere]

Lol @ all these excuses for why Pop gets a bad rap.

Sorry Interference, but if most people agreed that Pop was the masterpiece this forum believes it is, these threads would never have to be made.

In the end, most U2 fans would put Pop somewhere in the middle or lower end of the band's albums. Hell, check on Amazon.com and look at the rankings of sales for each record. Pop is 13th, almost every album is above it. People just don't like the album as much as U2's others. I'm sorry, but it's the truth.

 

[BVS]

Is pop really so experinmental?

Sure, songs like MOFO couldn't appear on any other album without sounding out of place...

remove a lot of that swaggering FX in the background, and doesn't IGWSHA sound a lot like something on the 'b' side of ATYCLB? to me it does.

Staring at the sun could also fit nicely on to ATYCLB.

*Carrying on *

Last night on earth is fundimentally a rock song with a few techno sounds added to it. Is it me or is it similiar in many ways to the studio version of ABOY?

Miami is diffrent to anything ever done by U2 and very much set to this album i think. It explores techno

GONE - Again remove the 747 sound at the start and its a straight foward bloody rock song.

The Playboy Mansion - Lyrically it typifys pop, the excesses of pop as a culture, but musically is it really far removed from something like love is blindness? Could it be fitting on Achtung Baby if the lyrics were changed (ie totaly rewritten)

If you wear that velvet dress - Im going to skip this cause i never listen to it

Please - Again this is a quite standard song it could fit in the 'trying to throw your arms around the world' slot on AB quite nicely. Indeed if that song was on pop we would probably say it shows the electronic influences.

Wake up Dead Man - again remove all the sub-layersand this is a love is blindness-esque song.

Oh well just my thoughts that in summary pop isn't really as far removed as some people seem to think, and a lot of the ideas would fit on other albums with little issue

I agree on most points. I really think MOFO, Disco, Miami, and Do You Feel Loved are the only tunes that couldn't fit anywhere else...

Production wise it was pretty experimental, but stripped down to core songs and the rest of the album could easily fit anywhere else with maybe a few exceptions lyric wise.

 

[Chizip]

Lol @ all these excuses for why Pop gets a bad rap.

Sorry Interference, but if most people agreed that Pop was the masterpiece this forum believes it is, these threads would never have to be made.

In the end, most U2 fans would put Pop somewhere in the middle or lower end of the band's albums. Hell, check on Amazon.com and look at the rankings of sales for each record. Pop is 13th, almost every album is above it. People just don't like the album as much as U2's others. I'm sorry, but it's the truth.

because we alllllll know quantity sold = quality of music

which means Hootie and the Blowfish, Meatloaf, Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears, matchbox twenty, and Creed all have made better albums then U2's Joshua Tree as they have all sold at least more than a million copies than it.
(as of 2003, US sales only)

1 million people can't be wrong can they? well when it comes to album sales, they can be.

i prefer to see what the fans have to say

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151979

and according to this scientific and credible poll, Pop ranks as U2's 4th best album, while ATYCLB is considered their 3rd worst (i dont count passengers as an album) Case closed, hurts doesn't it?

 

[BVS]

Case closed, hurts doesn't it?

 

[U2girl]

Yes, we all know the unbiased polls on Interference are the true measure of how the worldwide U2 fandom feels on any given U2 album.

 

[Chizip]

Yes, we all know the unbiased polls on Interference are the true measure of how the worldwide U2 fandom feels on any given U2 album.

thats one of the first things iver ever agreed with you on

 

[ntalwar]

because we alllllll know quantity sold = quality of music

which means Hootie and the Blowfish, Meatloaf, Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears, matchbox twenty, and Creed all have made better albums then U2's Joshua Tree as they have all sold at least more than a million copies than it.
(as of 2003, US sales only)

1 million people can't be wrong can they? well when it comes to album sales, they can be.

Album sales over a long period of time is what matters, not over a brief period. Crossing the generational gap is what artists strive for. Almost all, if not all, of the artists that you mentioned are now outside of the top 2000-4000 now in terms of albums sales on amazon.

To quote Roger Waters from another thread discussing Dark Side of The Moon:
"Q: Why do you think this record has struck such a chord with so many different generations?

A: Musically, this thing has really stood the test of time... "

Regardless of that poll, the broader U2 community is voting with their collective pocketbook. And they are not selecting Pop.

 

[BluberryPoptart]

because we alllllll know quantity sold = quality of music

which means Hootie and the Blowfish, Meatloaf, Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears, matchbox twenty, and Creed all have made better albums then U2's Joshua Tree as they have all sold at least more than a million copies than it.
(as of 2003, US sales only)

1 million people can't be wrong can they? well when it comes to album sales, they can be.

Oh this is such an old argument, it used to be Britney Spears used as a comparison Most of those things you mention are more on the level of fads than music. Boy bands and divas sell like Pokemon, Giga Pets and Tickle Me Elmo. It's not sales comapred to those albims, it's sales and popularity compared to OTHER U2 albums.

i prefer to see what the fans have to say

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151979

and according to this scientific and credible poll, Pop ranks as U2's 4th best album, while ATYCLB is considered their 3rd worst (i dont count passengers as an album) Case closed, hurts doesn't it?

Nope. You must consider that your 'scientific poll' was done only on a small number of fans, what a hundred or less, compared to the MILLIONS of fans worldwide? Yes, the majority of people here have a chip on their shoulders about Pop the size of a boulder and defend it like a mother bear, but you must consider that the VAST majority of U2 fans are not on this forum (maybe they have lives?) and their opinion isn't being told on this forum. However, it is being told in the recorded sales compared to other albums, and on other sites as the other poster mentioned. On sites devoted to all music and not U2, (and I have seen many) Pop is the ugly stepchild of the bands' catalogue.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

Ahhh yes. the old "Pop is crap and I won't let anyone else think otherwise" thread.

Explain to me why the Britney Spears comparison doesn't work again? She's had more than one album do well.

Chip made a good point and responses to it sidestep the figures he pointed out.

 

[ntalwar]

Ahhh yes. the old "Pop is crap and I won't let anyone else think otherwise" thread.

Explain to me why the Britney Spears comparison doesn't work again? She's had more than one album do well.

Pop is Crap- Who said that? Pointing out sales figures is different. For the record, the fad Britney Spears has album sales today ranked around 2000, 5000, and 8000 on amazon. The Joshua Tree is around 300. Longevity is what matters.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

Pop is the ugly stepchild of the bands' catalogue.

This doesn't exactly sing the praises of Pop does it?

Anyway, the point I was trying (as well as others in this thread) to make is that sales do not make a "good" or "bad."

I don't buy the "voting with your pocketbook" nonsense.

 

[gareth brown]

I honestly don't get what is so good about an unfinished, very poor album like 'Pop'. People here just kid themselves into believing it's a true 'Masterpiece'...WHY? It's as if these people are trying desperately to stand out as backers of this ridiculed album as if it makes them better than the rest of us who obviously don't "Get" what's so good about a record of half baked songs.

I like some of the songs but they only really fleshed out when performed live. Sales mean nothing, it's U2, it's going to sell isn't it?

 

[ntalwar]

Anyway, the point I was trying (as well as others in this thread) to make is that sales do not make a "good" or "bad."

I don't buy the "voting with your pocketbook" nonsense.

Sales over time are what serious artists look for however. Even Bono mentioned something to that effect in his 60 Minutes interview when he mentioned that he wants the music to still be relevant in 50 years. It's hard to be relevant in 50 years if your albums are not selling then.

I used the "voting with your pocketbook" mainly as a comparison to the poll, which is far less accurate.

 

[Zoots]

People here just kid themselves into believing it's a true 'Masterpiece'...WHY? It's as if these people are trying desperately to stand out as backers of this ridiculed album as if it makes them better than the rest of us who obviously don't "Get" what's so good about a record of half baked songs.

No Gareth. Nobody is kidding themselves. Music is entirely subjective. I may think Pop is a masterpiece and some other person may think HTDAAB is. Of course he is wrong but that won't hold up in court!

 

[CPTLCTYGOOFBALL]

Here's a poll that AtU2.com did in 2005. They surveyed 4000 visitors to their site so it might be a bit more accuarate than some of the polling done here

http://www.atu2.com/survey/2005/e2.html

1. Achtung Baby 47.11%

2. The Joshua Tree 19.57%

3. The Unforgettable Fire 6.88%

4. All That You Can't Leave Behind 6.25%

5. How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb 5.21%

6. Pop 3.90%

7. Zooropa 2.28%

8. War 2.11%

9. The Best of 1980-1990 1.70

10. Rattle and Hum 1.60%

11. Boy1.35%

12. The Best of 1990-2000 0.98%

13. October 0.79%

14. Under a Blood Red Sky 0.28%

The fact that some people voted for the best ofs sort of indicates that it wasn't all diehard fans, but still enough of a fan to visit atu2.com This poll was only for favourite album, so no points to an album for being someones second, third, forth etc.

 

[CKONE]

pop is to each person what it is - its not about getting this or that or amounts sold its about what it is to me and what it is to each individual!

i think its class!

 

[AtomicBono]

I honestly don't get what is so good about an unfinished, very poor album like 'Pop'. People here just kid themselves into believing it's a true 'Masterpiece'...WHY? It's as if these people are trying desperately to stand out as backers of this ridiculed album as if it makes them better than the rest of us who obviously don't "Get" what's so good about a record of half baked songs.

I like some of the songs but they only really fleshed out when performed live. Sales mean nothing, it's U2, it's going to sell isn't it?

yeah cuz it's totally not the honest opinion of some people that Pop is a fantastic album, we're obviously just kidding ourselves to feel superior for disagreeing with people. that totally makes sense.

view sig.

 

[Zoots]

AB, I love your location!!!

 

[U2girl]

yet another "let's defend Pop" thread

Music is entirely subjective. I may think Pop is a masterpiece and some other person may think HTDAAB is. Of course he is wrong but that won't hold up in court!

Of course.

 

[U2girl]

So if Pop had been a big success that got a lot of radio play would they have made such a radical change? I'm not so sure, as one of their stated objectives with ATYCLB was to get back on the radio.

Which is interesting since Pop got more radio airplay than ATYCLB or Bomb, just ask Sting2.

 

[gareth brown]

No Gareth. Nobody is kidding themselves. Music is entirely subjective. I may think Pop is a masterpiece and some other person may think HTDAAB is. Of course he is wrong but that won't hold up in court!

yeah cuz it's totally not the honest opinion of some people that Pop is a fantastic album, we're obviously just kidding ourselves to feel superior for disagreeing with people. that totally makes sense.

view sig.

Haha, I can't wait to start bleating like this about how music is always subjective etc. next time a massive argument erupts over 'October' being a great album and 'Mercy' being better than most of 'How To...' put together. Which they are.

 

[AtomicBono]

AB, I love your location!!!

yeah well i love your FACE

Mercy Mercy bashing is almost as good as Pop bashing

 

[U2STEVE70]

My main intent for this thread was not a Pop sucks/Pop is great thread. The question was if Pop was as huge just as JT/AB would they have continued down this path or would they have chosen the "radio friendly pop" path anyways?

 

[BVS]

My main intent for this thread was not a Pop sucks/Pop is great thread. The question was if Pop was as huge just as JT/AB would they have continued down this path or would they have chosen the "radio friendly pop" path anyways?

Honestly the reason this thread didn't go that way is that we could play "what if's" all day long...

These aren't the most productive types of threads.

 

[Zoots]

Alas Gareth... you didn't get my attempt at humor. Just cos I didn't use any smileys doesn't mean I wasn't kidding.

 

[BluberryPoptart]

Which is interesting since Pop got more radio airplay than ATYCLB or Bomb, just ask Sting2.

This must be depending on the area. Where I live, I never heard a thing but "SATS" during the Pop days, but both Bomb and ATYCLB were very highly played and bragged about, even non single tracks! Since then, and now, I NEVER hear ANY Pop songs played on classic stations, hard rock, 'new' rock, or even adult contemporary stations, while songs from AB, JT, Rattle and Hum (Desire, Angel of Harlem, When Love Comes to Town) War and UF, and of course the two latest ones, are very, very commonly heard. I NEVER hear anything from Pop, or Boy, October or Zooropa (other than Stay) on radio playlists. Reason? These songs are not as well liked, as well known, and have not stood the test of (mainstream, classic) time as the others have.

 

[U2STEVE70]

Honestly the reason this thread didn't go that way is that we could play "what if's" all day long...

These aren't the most productive types of threads.

I know..... Maybe next time I'll start another "Bono cuts his hair short" thread that go on for 20 pages. That would be more productive.