On a more serious note - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Your Blue Room > Everything You Know Is Wrong > Everything You Know Is Wrong Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-07-2006, 05:09 PM   #1
Refugee
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lehigh, FL, USA
Posts: 2,296
Local Time: 12:04 AM
On a more serious note

It shocks me to some degree that Bono "gets away with" comparing the situation in Africa to the holocaust.

A LOT of people get EXTRAORDINARILY offended when one compares ANYTHING to the holocaust...

Some compare the meat industry as well to the holocaust... Something I personally would never do...

I know these comparisons are made because people otherwise might not look at it a seriously... but I can see how it would anger (to the point of boiling) someone who has personal feelings / family history related to the holocaust.

Bono gets away with a lot!
__________________

redhill is offline  
Old 05-07-2006, 05:38 PM   #2
Blue Crack Supplier
 
kellyahern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 8 years and I still can't think of anything witty to put here
Posts: 34,698
Local Time: 08:04 PM
http://www.time.com/time/archive/pre...142270,00.html

Quote:
Tom Lantos, a Democratic Representative from California, swings by with his granddaughter. Bono and Lantos are close enough that the Congressman, a Holocaust survivor, has encouraged Bono to reference worldwide indifference to the genocide when describing governments' apathetic response to the spread of AIDS across Africa. "I am very sensitive to people abusing the analogy," says Lantos. "He's convinced me it's legitimate."
also
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/ne...hp3?artid=7010

Quote:
he sought and received permission from Rep. Tom Lantos, (D-Calif.), a Holocaust survivor, to liken the plight of Africans dying of AIDS as the world turns a blind eye, to Jews being forced into death camp-bound trains, while the world did nothing.
and
http://www.results.org/website/article.asp?id=1351

Quote:
Bono, a well known advocate on these issues, recalled his conversation with Congressman Tom Lantos (D-CA), who, as a child, survived being sent to a concentration camp in Hungary. “The thing that haunts him later on in his life,” said Bono, “was the looks on the faces of the people who stood by and watched them being loaded on the trains… and they didn’t ask where they were going.” Asked if there was an analogy between his experience and the deaths of millions from preventable disease, Lantos said, “Yes, there is. But here we know where the trains are going. We know that these people are going to die for lack of drugs we can get at any corner shop. We know the people are going to die because of a mosquito bite when they shouldn’t.”

Giving permission to use his story, Lantos asked Bono what he would do with it. He replied, “That whenever I spoke about this, I would say that this time we are going to lie in front of the trains.”
__________________

kellyahern is offline  
Old 05-07-2006, 05:44 PM   #3
ONE
love, blood, life
 
dsmith2904's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Just keep me where the light is
Posts: 12,290
Local Time: 05:04 PM
Thank you Kelly for finding those. Bono's using that term to point out to all of us that we do have an opportunity to make a difference, to save millions of lives when that chance has taken in the past, such as during World War II, the Armenian genocide and the Bosnian conflict.
dsmith2904 is offline  
Old 05-07-2006, 07:00 PM   #4
Refugee
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lehigh, FL, USA
Posts: 2,296
Local Time: 12:04 AM
Very thorough research. I'm unsure honestly what this proves other then one person in the world is OK with the analogy.

It is certain that this politician does not speak for everyone or anyone other then himself (really) on this matter.

I have to imagine some people are offended... but my point, actually, was that a lot more people would be offended (for some reason(s) if it were anyone other then Bono!
redhill is offline  
Old 05-07-2006, 07:19 PM   #5
arw
Blue Crack Addict
 
arw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: walking around 10,000 lakes
Posts: 27,320
Local Time: 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by redhill


Very thorough research. I'm unsure honestly what this proves other then one person in the world is OK with the analogy.

It is certain that this politician does not speak for everyone or anyone other then himself (really) on this matter.

I have to imagine some people are offended... but my point, actually, was that a lot more people would be offended (for some reason(s) if it were anyone other then Bono!
I find it interesting that you would be offended, or suggest others would be offended, by Bono's use of holocaust but yet in another thread you say

Quote:
Originally posted by redhill


That black police lady is checking out Bono's ass!

She loves it!
It's quite obvious the woman is black, and a police (security) officer. Why bring her skin color into? What does that have to do with anything? She's the only woman standing behind him in the photo.

I'm actually way more offended by something like that than I am about the use of the holocaust being compared to Africa.
__________________
arw is offline  
Old 05-07-2006, 08:02 PM   #6
Refugee
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lehigh, FL, USA
Posts: 2,296
Local Time: 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by arw9797


I find it interesting that you would be offended, or suggest others would be offended, by Bono's use of holocaust but yet in another thread you say



It's quite obvious the woman is black, and a police (security) officer. Why bring her skin color into? What does that have to do with anything? She's the only woman standing behind him in the photo.

I'm actually way more offended by something like that than I am about the use of the holocaust being compared to Africa.
Well it sounds like you may have some issues with racism then.

Bono himself has been quoted as saying he is very comfortable with the fact that he is not black (but that he is white, pink (or rosey?) and has soul.

Were you offended that he said that?

I just think it is cute when black women (like Queen Latifah seems to be are attracted to a short irishman who wears wrap around sunglasses.

Why is that racist?

I have a (milato) friend who is an admitted racist and he is always saying the same thing.... "why did you even mention they were black"?!

The anwer is simple - because it was relevant (and in context with) the story. It does not get mentioned unless it has relevance. Lets be honest - history has shown the color of your skin is relevant to many people.

It is actually his issue and a reflection on his (and yours in this case?) racism. He is looking at the world through his "lens" and projecting his own issues onto others.

Someone's skin color is relevant because it is part of their identity.

I know of many white women who only date black men and in fact have said that they will not date white men. Is it wrong to say it? Or is it relevant? If a friend asks me if he should try to date her.... what should I say? Am I not allowed to mention that she has said she only likes black men? Is it racist or very relevant?

Not to belabor the point but my experience in this matter (which includes a lot of instances other then what I mentioned with my friend) is that people who point the finger at simple statments (where the race is relevant) are usually hyper-sensitive to their own ethnicity or racist themselves. The things people dislike the very most in others are, quite often, the things that they dislike about themselves the most.

I am one of the least racist people you could ever hope to meet.

I just thought something was cute.
redhill is offline  
Old 05-07-2006, 08:07 PM   #7
Refugee
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lehigh, FL, USA
Posts: 2,296
Local Time: 12:04 AM
Just in case someone says that it is not relevant

that the police lady is black.

Go to any U2 concert in the USA. What percentage of the attendees are black?

I have never seen it be more then 2% (probably closer to .05%..)

So it is cool to see a black lady checking B-Man out.

Bono, being someone that seems to want to win EVERYONE over, IMO, would love to have more black fans..

His actions in many instances have always led me to believe this.

So it is also of interest (on that level) for her to be checking him out.

I don't see how it is racist (in the very slightest) to discuss these things.
redhill is offline  
Old 05-07-2006, 09:05 PM   #8
arw
Blue Crack Addict
 
arw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: walking around 10,000 lakes
Posts: 27,320
Local Time: 07:04 PM
Go to FYM if you want to argue whatever it is you're trying to argue because this is not worth my time.
__________________
arw is offline  
Old 05-07-2006, 09:11 PM   #9
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,563
Local Time: 08:04 PM
Redhill, I heard Bono speak on Thursday night. BEFORE he said anything about the Holocaust, he talked for about five minutes about a politician he'd met, a Holocaust survivor and HE (the politician) was the one who told BONO that HE believes what is happening today in Africa is worse than the Holocaust. Bono specifically said "this is NOT an analogy we can use lightly, nothing about the Holocaust ever is..." The politician who made the original analogy wrote Bono a letter explaining it to him and asking him to use it.

Why is this analogy offensive to you? I mean, you say that what the politician thinks about it being OK to use the analogy doesn't count b/c he's only one person (nevermind that he's a Holocaust survivor who made tha analogy), but then YOU are the one claiming that "LOTS" of people get offended by this. As far as I know, you're the first person I've heard from who's offended by this analogy so why is your opinion more significant than the opinion of the politician?

Yes, comparing eating chickens to the Holocaust is sick and disturbing and anyone who thinks that's OK or makes sense needs to have their head examined. No one here's going to argue with you about that one. But PETA or whoever the fuck was behind that has NOTHING to do with Africa's economic development.

The analogy is somewhat meaningful to me because my late grandfather served for years during WWII and was part of the corps that "liberated" the Nordhausen concentration camp. I say "liberated" in quotes because upon their arrival, they found over 2000 unburried corpses and just a few survivors, many of whom were beyond saving. My grandpa's fellow officers were so terribly shocked by this, that this had happened just outside of a village, under everyone's noses, that they went into the village, took everyone captive, and forced them into the camp to help properly burry the dead.

When I think about these stories and look at the photos my grandpa took of those rows and rows and rows of dead, and then look at my own photos of poor and starving people in Africa and think of how disgustingly easy it is to disassociate, the analogy makes too much sense.
Liesje is offline  
Old 05-07-2006, 09:13 PM   #10
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,563
Local Time: 08:04 PM
Honestly I think starting a thread about the Holocaust and then talking about some random policewoman checking out Bono's ass is FAR more offensive and nonsensical than Bono/Lantos' analogy.
Liesje is offline  
Old 05-07-2006, 09:15 PM   #11
Blue Crack Addict
 
u2granny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Pious Aires, WA
Posts: 15,191
Local Time: 05:04 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why this is in Pleba and not FYI.
u2granny is offline  
Old 05-07-2006, 09:26 PM   #12
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
nurse chrissi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 8,314
Local Time: 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic

When I think about these stories and look at the photos my grandpa took of those rows and rows and rows of dead, and then look at my own photos of poor and starving people in Africa and think of how disgustingly easy it is to disassociate, the analogy makes too much sense.

agree 100%
nurse chrissi is offline  
Old 05-07-2006, 09:29 PM   #13
Blue Crack Supplier
 
kellyahern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 8 years and I still can't think of anything witty to put here
Posts: 34,698
Local Time: 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by u2granny
I'm still trying to figure out why this is in Pleba and not FYI.
yeah




Oh dancing lock, how I love you .
kellyahern is offline  
Old 05-07-2006, 09:57 PM   #14
ONE
love, blood, life
 
JCOSTER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: It's a very, very mad world.
Posts: 14,971
Local Time: 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
Honestly I think starting a thread about the Holocaust and then talking about some random policewoman checking out Bono's ass is FAR more offensive and nonsensical than Bono/Lantos' analogy.



also lets not let the train go by as in the Holocaust. We all know where that led to. Hes saying lets not let that happen in Africa if we sit by and just watch.

redhill, go buy a well for his birthday, go make a difference instead of an unheaded argument.
JCOSTER is offline  
Old 05-07-2006, 11:05 PM   #15
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
GracelandHarley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Larry Mullen Circle
Posts: 4,983
Local Time: 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by redhill


Well it sounds like you may have some issues with racism then.

Bono himself has been quoted as saying he is very comfortable with the fact that he is not black (but that he is white, pink (or rosey?) and has soul.

Were you offended that he said that?

I just think it is cute when black women (like Queen Latifah seems to be are attracted to a short irishman who wears wrap around sunglasses.

Why is that racist?

I have a (milato) friend who is an admitted racist and he is always saying the same thing.... "why did you even mention they were black"?!

The anwer is simple - because it was relevant (and in context with) the story. It does not get mentioned unless it has relevance. Lets be honest - history has shown the color of your skin is relevant to many people.

It is actually his issue and a reflection on his (and yours in this case?) racism. He is looking at the world through his "lens" and projecting his own issues onto others.

Someone's skin color is relevant because it is part of their identity.

I know of many white women who only date black men and in fact have said that they will not date white men. Is it wrong to say it? Or is it relevant? If a friend asks me if he should try to date her.... what should I say? Am I not allowed to mention that she has said she only likes black men? Is it racist or very relevant?

Not to belabor the point but my experience in this matter (which includes a lot of instances other then what I mentioned with my friend) is that people who point the finger at simple statments (where the race is relevant) are usually hyper-sensitive to their own ethnicity or racist themselves. The things people dislike the very most in others are, quite often, the things that they dislike about themselves the most.

I am one of the least racist people you could ever hope to meet.

I just thought something was cute.
So, it is someone else's problem alone if they perceive racism in your comments or beliefs? What do we do in the case of irrefutable proof of such? (See above)



Oh, by the way, ARW is, in fact, white, if I'm not mistaken... so your "lens" theory needs some work... not to mention a few of your other theories.

P.S. "Milato "?
GracelandHarley is offline  
Old 05-08-2006, 02:21 AM   #16
Refugee
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lehigh, FL, USA
Posts: 2,296
Local Time: 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by JCOSTER





also lets not let the train go by as in the Holocaust. We all know where that led to. Hes saying lets not let that happen in Africa if we sit by and just watch.

redhill, go buy a well for his birthday, go make a difference instead of an unheaded argument.
I have been contributing to the well every year without fail since the inception of the idea. Why would you assume that I don't? Unheaded?
redhill is offline  
Old 05-08-2006, 02:24 AM   #17
Refugee
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lehigh, FL, USA
Posts: 2,296
Local Time: 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
Redhill, I heard Bono speak on Thursday night. BEFORE he said anything about the Holocaust, he talked for about five minutes about a politician he'd met, a Holocaust survivor and HE (the politician) was the one who told BONO that HE believes what is happening today in Africa is worse than the Holocaust. Bono specifically said "this is NOT an analogy we can use lightly, nothing about the Holocaust ever is..." The politician who made the original analogy wrote Bono a letter explaining it to him and asking him to use it.

Why is this analogy offensive to you?
I never said it was. I said that I can see how a lot of people would take offensive and thought that Bono was able to avoid offending people somehow because he was Bono... and that few people could pull that off. Did you read my posts?
redhill is offline  
Old 05-08-2006, 02:28 AM   #18
Refugee
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lehigh, FL, USA
Posts: 2,296
Local Time: 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
Honestly I think starting a thread about the Holocaust and then talking about some random policewoman checking out Bono's ass is FAR more offensive and nonsensical than Bono/Lantos' analogy.
These were two different posts in two different forums that someone else associated with each other.

I don't think it would be possible for anyone to make a valid argument that anything I wrote (in either post) was offensive or nonsensical...

Well I can see how certain folks could be offended that I mentioned that someone was checking out Bono's ass.... but not that I noted that she was black.
redhill is offline  
Old 05-08-2006, 02:29 AM   #19
Refugee
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lehigh, FL, USA
Posts: 2,296
Local Time: 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by u2granny
I'm still trying to figure out why this is in Pleba and not FYI.
I hope it gets moved. Not to offend anyone but to open up the discussion.
redhill is offline  
Old 05-08-2006, 08:12 AM   #20
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,563
Local Time: 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by redhill


I never said it was. I said that I can see how a lot of people would take offensive and thought that Bono was able to avoid offending people somehow because he was Bono... and that few people could pull that off. Did you read my posts?
He avoids offending people because 1) he's right and 2) come to think of it, people SHOULD be offended by what has been allowed to happen.

But anyway, since you say you're not offended by it, and I've yet to hear from someone who was there that was offended, I guess it's a non-issue.
__________________

Liesje is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×