On a more serious note

[redhill]

Yeah, no kidding. Also, of course if you look out over a U2 concert, you will see only 2% "black" people, or whatever percent you gave. That's because by reducing people to either "black" or "white", you're lumping anyone that doesn't have black skin (English, Irish, Dutch, Spanish, Mexican, Greek, Italian, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Scandanavian, etc, etc, etc) into ONE category. So yeah, if "black" is only made up of African-Americans and Jamaicans, but "white" is made up of 100 other ethnicities, yeah it's going to look pretty rediculous.

And anyway, the policewoman isn't looking at Bono's ass, she's looking over his shoulder at the stuff he's signing. You can't see someone's ass at that angle when they're inches in front of you.

I'm not lumping everyone else into one category. I was referring specifically to black people or African Americans only.

In regards to my picture comment... it was intended to be humorous. Also, I stand by my reference to the police lady being black 100%. It was simply a relevant detail... like Bono being short. If you read my first post about this... it completely obliterates your position.

No need to retype it or repost because you won't take the time to read my position before attacking it...

 

[redhill]

He avoids offending people because 1) he's right and 2) come to think of it, people SHOULD be offended by what has been allowed to happen.

But anyway, since you say you're not offended by it, and I've yet to hear from someone who was there that was offended, I guess it's a non-issue.

I agree completely that it is a very valid comparison but don't like to use the words "right" and "wrong" very often.

Also, I know someone personally (a good friend...I won't mention if they were a boy or girl in case someone accuses me of sexism - LOL) who was very offended by it.

 

[redhill]

and Redhill, on your other point you are talking about relevance of noting black or white.... is it relevant to call a policewoman black or white? I do not think so, and I think most people agree with that! you coul've just posted about the lady or the policewoman... but why add the black??? that sounds like it's important to YOU! sorry to ask, but why do you call people here a racist... if that's normal to ask, then I'd rather ask you for bringing it up!

I already proved that it was relevant in an earlier post so no need to rehash. Was it relevant when Rodney King was beaten that all of the officer's were white? It sure was relevant to the media and millions and millions of people across the country... and the jurors and the prosecutors...etc...etc... I'm saying lets be honest and admit that color is relevant.

I already admitted that I did find it cute so need to say that it important to me... I already said that it was interesting to me! Not that it is a big deal...

The incinuation was made that I was a racist so I am defending my position as I am anything but.

In regards to calling "people" racist... I did no such thing.

I was simply asking A (single) person who incinuated that I was racist if perhaps they were indeed racist themselves.

Seems to fair to return such an attack with a relevant question based on my experiences.

ALSO - I WOULD LOVE to hear why it was not relevant that the lady was black! Is it because all people are the same yada yada?

Obviously not every race is alike or there would be as many starting white basketball players in the NBA as there are black people.

I still have not heard one intelligent response as to why it was not relevant...

I would actually appreciate someone putting some thought into their responses before they attack me again.

There seems to be a lot of ignorance directed towards me but I appreciate some of the other insightful posts that were open minded.

 

[Liesje]

In regards to my picture comment... it was intended to be humorous. Also, I stand by my reference to the police lady being black 100%. It was simply a relevant detail... like Bono being short. If you read my first post about this... it completely obliterates your position.

I didn't say she wasn't black, I said she's not looking at Bono's ass.

 

[Liesje]

Also, I know someone personally (a good friend...I won't mention if they were a boy or girl in case someone accuses me of sexism - LOL) who was very offended by it.

Was this person actually present during one of Bono's recent speeches, or did s/he only receive the severely abbreviated and contextless version of the analogy as has been reported by most newspapers and as you described it in your original post?

I still defend the use of the analogy, at least in the recent Grand Rapids speech. What you have to understand is that Bono's speech was tailored to the type of people and the community he was speaking to. Around here, everyone is Dutch. Most of the bigwigs at the GR Econ Club were born in the Netherlands. Most of them were there during WWII. We have a local history of people who served in the Dutch underground during WWII, a group of people dedicated to hiding Jews and creating networks for saving their children from being deported to camps. Not just any holocaust, but THE Holocaust means a lot around here. We all know or are related to those who served in the Dutch underground, those who were troops that liberated the camps (like the guy that also spoke at the GR Econ Club meeting, he was a Dachau liberator who to this day has a scar from when a Jewish woman gripped his hand so tightly to thank him she left a deep scar), or people who were actually encamped themselves.

You can't just grap one or two lines from Bono's speech and judge it based only on the text itself. That analogy connects with people around here, it got people's attention. Only a few have been to Africa, but we all have connections to the Holocaust.

 

[redhill]

I didn't say she wasn't black, I said she's not looking at Bono's ass.

I know.. I was defending myself from someone else's comments..

 

[redhill]

Was this person actually present during one of Bono's recent speeches, or did s/he only receive the severely abbreviated and contextless version of the analogy as has been reported by most newspapers and as you described it in your original post?

I still defend the use of the analogy, at least in the recent Grand Rapids speech. What you have to understand is that Bono's speech was tailored to the type of people and the community he was speaking to. Around here, everyone is Dutch. Most of the bigwigs at the GR Econ Club were born in the Netherlands. Most of them were there during WWII. We have a local history of people who served in the Dutch underground during WWII, a group of people dedicated to hiding Jews and creating networks for saving their children from being deported to camps. Not just any holocaust, but THE Holocaust means a lot around here. We all know or are related to those who served in the Dutch underground, those who were troops that liberated the camps (like the guy that also spoke at the GR Econ Club meeting, he was a Dachau liberator who to this day has a scar from when a Jewish woman gripped his hand so tightly to thank him she left a deep scar), or people who were actually encamped themselves.

You can't just grap one or two lines from Bono's speech and judge it based only on the text itself. That analogy connects with people around here, it got people's attention. Only a few have been to Africa, but we all have connections to the Holocaust.

Thanks for the insight...

HE (whoops - I MUST be Sexist) saw something on TV but I'm not sure what and mentioned the Holocaust reference.

It probably was out of context quite frankly. The references in your post are moving. Thanks so much.

 

[nikkyjade]

can i just say that the police lady being black was not relevant at all.....if the police lady was white it would never have been said "oh check out the white police lady"

yes colour is relevant.....in the right context....such as the example you used redhill about the beatings of that guy.......but i dont see how it is relevant when just referring to a photograph of a bunch of random people with Bono

i think many people can be over sensitive about colour, religion etc at the moment.....and its a shame....it should never have to be an issue but unfortunately it is

 

[Miroslava]

Moved this thread since it was started in the wrong subforum.

 

[BVS]

Completely valid analogy, if one's offended they may not be aware of the true impact of what's happening as we speak.

 

[U2girl]

Holocaust is a touchy topic, that said it's a valid analogy in the sense millions are dying over the decades and the rest of the world isn't doing enough. Also another connection is one issue had the underlying nationalism and the other has (at least latent) racism.

Hitler once claimed no one would protest the persecution of Jews and the Holocaust because no one said anything during the Armenian genocide around the time of WW I.

Indifference, in many ways, is the worst answer.

 

[Molly Bloom]

I already proved that it was relevant in an earlier post so no need to rehash. Was it relevant when Rodney King was beaten that all of the officer's were white? It sure was relevant to the media and millions and millions of people across the country... and the jurors and the prosecutors...etc...etc... I'm saying lets be honest and admit that color is relevant.

I already admitted that I did find it cute so need to say that it important to me... I already said that it was interesting to me! Not that it is a big deal...

The incinuation was made that I was a racist so I am defending my position as I am anything but.

In regards to calling "people" racist... I did no such thing.

I was simply asking A (single) person who incinuated that I was racist if perhaps they were indeed racist themselves.

Seems to fair to return such an attack with a relevant question based on my experiences.

ALSO - I WOULD LOVE to hear why it was not relevant that the lady was black! Is it because all people are the same yada yada?

Obviously not every race is alike or there would be as many starting white basketball players in the NBA as there are black people.

I still have not heard one intelligent response as to why it was not relevant...

I would actually appreciate someone putting some thought into their responses before they attack me again.

There seems to be a lot of ignorance directed towards me but I appreciate some of the other insightful posts that were open minded.

i think there are a few reasons her colour was not relevant, in many people's opinions, the main one being there was only one female police officer in the picture.
i also think many people feel it is a racist thing to find it 'cute' that a black woman would like a white man. it smacks of stereotyping. i am not attacking you, just trying to point out some things.
As for it being no different than saying Bono is short, do you preface your description of him with that everytime? ie; "I love it when short Bono has his hair like that!"
i think qualifying is often seen as, and actually is, racist. I am not saying you meant it that way but to many people that is how it comes across. One of my biggest pet peeves is the term "white trash" as though it is assumed all trash is non white unless it is specifically stated.

As for the Rodney King beating, that was horrible regardless of the skin colour of the person it happened to. But since race more than likely had a part in that situation it is relevant. Until we stop letting people, the media included, make skin colour the relevant factor in so many things it will always be a way of dividing people. Until we stop lumping people together as a way to identify them the negative feelings and attitudes between the races will continue. It is a continuing, and vicious, circle.
I have always thought skin colour was no more relevant than eye colour... a variation of the melanin amount in a person's skin is no measure of what kind of person they are, nor is it an indicator of who they can and will love or what type of treatment they deserve in any situation.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are ignorant.
Respectfully,
M

 

[ntalwar]

I have seen no official (i.e. from organizations or politicians) condemnation of this analogy in the media, as has happened in other cases such as the PETA one. Usually, you will see some statement being released by an organization if a statement from a public figure is considered offensive.

 

[redhill]

I have seen no official (i.e. from organizations or politicians) condemnation of this analogy in the media, as has happened in other cases such as the PETA one. Usually, you will see some statement being released by an organization if a statement from a public figure is considered offensive.

Why allow the media to tell us how to feel / think?

I certainly don't.

 

[ntalwar]

Why allow the media to tell us how to feel / think?

I certainly don't.

I didn't say the media condemn it - I said organizations condemn it and it is reported in the media. Feel free to contact one of several organizations in DC to share your thoughts.

 

[redhill]

i think there are a few reasons her colour was not relevant, in many people's opinions, the main one being there was only one female police officer in the picture.
i also think many people feel it is a racist thing to find it 'cute' that a black woman would like a white man. it smacks of stereotyping. i am not attacking you, just trying to point out some things.
As for it being no different than saying Bono is short, do you preface your description of him with that everytime? ie; "I love it when short Bono has his hair like that!"
i think qualifying is often seen as, and actually is, racist. I am not saying you meant it that way but to many people that is how it comes across. One of my biggest pet peeves is the term "white trash" as though it is assumed all trash is non white unless it is specifically stated.

As for the Rodney King beating, that was horrible regardless of the skin colour of the person it happened to. But since race more than likely had a part in that situation it is relevant. Until we stop letting people, the media included, make skin colour the relevant factor in so many things it will always be a way of dividing people. Until we stop lumping people together as a way to identify them the negative feelings and attitudes between the races will continue. It is a continuing, and vicious, circle.
I have always thought skin colour was no more relevant than eye colour... a variation of the melanin amount in a person's skin is no measure of what kind of person they are, nor is it an indicator of who they can and will love or what type of treatment they deserve in any situation.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are ignorant.
Respectfully,
M

Thanks for the careful response. I disagree with you on several points and let me explain how I feel.

I don't always preface a thought about Bono being short - only when it occurs to me in the context of a situation (i.e. when he is standing next to Bill Clinton who I never thought was so much taller than him.) Again.. in a picture like this it is relevant that he is short and I do find this kind of funny as well as Bono has so much power and is such a small man overall. Bono thinks this is amusing as well when he said during Popmart (many times) "I'm such a little guy! But you make me feel so big" I never heard anyone attack him for saying that - not in the slightest! Bono also said something to the effect of not hanging out with tall people but that he makes an exception for Clinton - "he's pretty rock star himself." I never heard anyone attack that. Yet by similar logic as some have used to point the finger at me... Bono should be considered as prejudiced against short people! Which would be well.... kind of silly.. to even suggest... I think... Just as absurd as incinuating that I am racist or getting offended by a relevant situational qualification.

You also say "i also think many people feel it is a racist thing to find it 'cute' that a black woman would like a white man. it smacks of stereotyping."

Let's be clear - this is not just a black woman. She is a black officer who appeared to be smiling at and admiring Bono. She was not just a black woman... she was a black officer who had a "cute" look on her face IMO and is one of a handful of black women I have (only in the last few years) seen (apparantley)admiring Bono. Also.. this is not just any white man. This is my favorite irishman who wears wrap around sunglasses with purple shirts with gold ties and sometimes scares people in political power. He also seems to have an effect on women and until the last few years... I never saw much specific evidence that this included some black women. Then I hear Queen Latifah admiring his appearance at some awards show and now this lady smiling at him.

Can you see the difference? This is not just "some black woman smiling at a white man." There are exacting details (if you know the history) that make this VERY relevant. This is an impossible point to disagree with I think.

Then you have said "Until we stop letting people, the media included, make skin colour the relevant factor in so many things it will always be a way of dividing people. Until we stop lumping people together as a way to identify them the negative feelings and attitudes between the races will continue. It is a continuing, and vicious, circle. "

Here's the thing: this statement comes from an idealistic viewpoint when the world is, undoubtedly, not perfect. The fact is that people do judge based on color (in hateful ways as well) whether you think it is wrong or not. As long as people sin (as long as this crazy world spins IMO) this will occur. I did lump that officer together with Queen Latifah in my mind as "black women I have seen smile / appear to admire Bono." I still don't see how that is wrong or sinful or hatefully judgemental or reason to take offense unless someone is coming from a negative stance themselves...

It may be judgemental... but not negatively or hatefully so. Some judgement, after all, is fair. Is it wrong to say "that man loves to play tennis" when he loves to play tennis? Or is it a fair judgement?

Whenever someone attacks me for relevantly qualifying... I have always seen it be: they have race issues, ego issues, inferiority/superiority complexes... and that the judgement of an honest and releveant situational qualification on my part is a reflection on one of their own (negative) issues and never an indication of my racism.

Then you say "I have always thought skin colour was no more relevant than eye colour... a variation of the melanin amount in a person's skin is no measure of what kind of person they are, nor is it an indicator of who they can and will love or what type of treatment they deserve in any situation. "

Well if you look at world this is not the case. Skin color is relevant as different races have much different history's and have lived in different locales in the world. As an example.... every single dry cleaning shop within 10 miles of my house (there are a bunch) is run by an Asian person. Is it racist for me to say so or simply a fact? I agree with your second statement for the most part and find that a very noble thought. However... I do think different races tend to have different characteristics and that this is often a result of their cumulative experiences over the years. If every race were identical in every way... like I have said... the NBA would have an equal (or much closer to equal) amount of white and black starting players. I could cite several more examples as proof positive of this (I have already proved it I feel) but I am getting long winded.

Sorry, btw, to rant, but I have a friend who has irritated me so much over the years with some of the same attacks I have heard from others... that I feel the need to point out it is other's issues and not mine in the least.

VERY IRONIC AND NOTEWORTHY: The title of the new video on U2LOG.com is "White Dude Dancing." WHY IS ANYONE NOT OFFENDED I ASK YOU?! IS THAT NOT RACIST AS WELL?

Or do the same people who attack me think it is OK to qualify with white people? Ask yourself... would the same people attacking me even have blinked? Or would they laugh? Probably laugh and it is because (in this thread) they have their own negative issues so they judge and attack and accuse me of being something I am not. Why the double standard? It's OK to mention that somone is white but not black? If the same person attacks me for qualifying someone as black (when it is factually relevant - let's stop pretending that this is not a fact) and does not attack U2log.com for qualifying Edge as "white" then they are hypocrites and in fact selecting based on race... which indeed makes them racists in a sense. So... like I said... in my first post... and just (almost) completely proved: a substantial portion of those who attack me based on relative qualification are projecting their own issues onto others.

Which sickens me b/c I am tired of it.

Lastly, you say "Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are ignorant."

I agree completely however some attacks against me were born of ignorance IMO.

I do want to let you know that I enjoyed the tone and careful insights that you shared in your post. You appear to be a class act. Please do not be offended that I do strongly disagree with some of your feelings. Everyone's thoughts are very valid unless they are born of ignorance and / or ego based judgement IMO (yours do not seem to be.)

FREE YOUR MIND

 

[U2mixer]

Black, white - whatever!

The only real relevant response is what black interference members think of redhill's statement?

As a white man, I think people are over-reacting.

(I realise this topic has turned direction)

 

[Galeongirl]

I already proved that it was relevant in an earlier post so no need to rehash. Was it relevant when Rodney King was beaten that all of the officer's were white? It sure was relevant to the media and millions and millions of people across the country... and the jurors and the prosecutors...etc...etc... I'm saying lets be honest and admit that color is relevant.

I already admitted that I did find it cute so need to say that it important to me... I already said that it was interesting to me! Not that it is a big deal...

The incinuation was made that I was a racist so I am defending my position as I am anything but.

In regards to calling "people" racist... I did no such thing.

I was simply asking A (single) person who incinuated that I was racist if perhaps they were indeed racist themselves.

Seems to fair to return such an attack with a relevant question based on my experiences.

ALSO - I WOULD LOVE to hear why it was not relevant that the lady was black! Is it because all people are the same yada yada?

Obviously not every race is alike or there would be as many starting white basketball players in the NBA as there are black people.

I still have not heard one intelligent response as to why it was not relevant...

I would actually appreciate someone putting some thought into their responses before they attack me again.

There seems to be a lot of ignorance directed towards me but I appreciate some of the other insightful posts that were open minded.

why do you keep asking us to tell uis why it's NOT relevant... if you are so sure of yourself(you make that impression or mme) that it is, then why don't you explain to me why you think so.. that might help me understanding your point..

and on your note about the white guy dancing video....
it's overall accepted that Edge is a white guy, and that he can't dance.. it's meant a joke.. and it's obviously a joke, since overall (yes stereotyping here!) black people dance better than white people.... IM NOT SAYING THIS IS MY OPINION FYI!
it's obviously a joke in this context, and should have no serious attention.. and I'm not saying it's right to say white, and not right to say black... but it depends on the context... in this context, it's because of the stereotyping, and the title pokes fun of that.. that is called Irony.

your comment doesn't sound like a joke, it's an observation... but it's the KIND of observation that makes it different.

Yes Bono is a short guy, and yes we know that... we even make fun of that, like he does himself... the difference is with that and what you say, he makes FUN of it.. he doesn't state what everybody already knows.. you stated something obvious, but because it's obvious, and a touchy issue(black/white stuff) it's noted.. ofcourse we all see the woman is black, adn that she's a cop... would it be different if it was a white cop checking him out? or a black non-cop woman? or a white non-cop woman??
IMHO, No.
in yours, it obviously does.

 

[redhill]

why do you keep asking us to tell uis why it's NOT relevant... if you are so sure of yourself(you make that impression or mme) that it is, then why don't you explain to me why you think so.. that might help me understanding your point..

and on your note about the white guy dancing video....
it's overall accepted that Edge is a white guy, and that he can't dance.. it's meant a joke.. and it's obviously a joke, since overall (yes stereotyping here!) black people dance better than white people.... IM NOT SAYING THIS IS MY OPINION FYI!
it's obviously a joke in this context, and should have no serious attention.. and I'm not saying it's right to say white, and not right to say black... but it depends on the context... in this context, it's because of the stereotyping, and the title pokes fun of that.. that is called Irony.

your comment doesn't sound like a joke, it's an observation... but it's the KIND of observation that makes it different.

Yes Bono is a short guy, and yes we know that... we even make fun of that, like he does himself... the difference is with that and what you say, he makes FUN of it.. he doesn't state what everybody already knows.. you stated something obvious, but because it's obvious, and a touchy issue(black/white stuff) it's noted.. ofcourse we all see the woman is black, adn that she's a cop... would it be different if it was a white cop checking him out? or a black non-cop woman? or a white non-cop woman??
IMHO, No.
in yours, it obviously does.

So if you think it is funny it is OK? If you don't think is is funny then it is not OK? Or if you consider something ironic... it is OK? If it is not ironic... then it is not OK?

BTW, you don't have to define irony for me.

So why is it touchy that the police officer was black but not touchy that Edge is white?

Why is the idea that white people can't dance funny but a black police officer smiling while standing behind Bono not funny?

I keep telling you to tell me why it's not relevant... because I have stated several reasons why it is relevant. NOT ONE PERSON who has said that it is not relevant has backed it up with any kind of reason (even a lame or bogus one.) So if you are going to debate something... and I am backing up my points... why bother debating if you are not going to offer some type of backing behind your statements? Don't even bother...

My comment was a joke because it is really impossible to see if she is looking at his ass. It was not purely an observation. However I thought the look on her face was funny if she indeed was looking at his ass... especially in light of the relevant fact that the first time in the history of U2.... Bono has been getting admired by black women in the media repeatedly (Mary J Blige, Queen Latifah, Coretta King, and now this officer

That is why it is relevant. So someone tell me why it is not relevant or don't say that it is not.

Your statement:
"would it be different if it was a white cop checking him out? or a black non-cop woman? or a white non-cop woman??
IMHO, No."

It is not a matter of opinion - it is a fact that it is different - proven by the fact I stated above: "especially in light of the relevant fact that the first time in the history of U2.... Bono has been getting admired by black women in the media repeatedly (Mary J Blige, Queen Latifah, Coretta King, and now this officer "

I sure hope the next person to attack my logic backs up their points or at least makes an effort to. Otherwise save your breath - it makes you look bad.

 

[BVS]

This thread sucks...

It's completely derailed and if the person can't see what they said was unnecessary, then they aren't going to.

 

[redhill]

This thread sucks...

It's completely derailed and if the person can't see what they said was unnecessary, then they aren't going to.

So the thread sucks... I agree that the level of people backing up their statements "sucks" but think the thread is something that needs to be discussed.

How have you added to it?

This is the least useful post in the thread so I would say.. more accurately... your post sucks... not the thread.

Why was what I said unnecessaray? How is your post necessary if it provides no insight? Or did you just drop by to share an opinion with no reasoning behind it?

 

[BVS]

So the thread sucks... I agree that the level of people backing up their statements "sucks" but think the thread is something that needs to be discussed.

How have you added to it?

I think pointing out that this thread has nothing to do with the original question would either get the thread back to the original discussion or close the thread.

So yes I added to it.

Why was what I said unnecessaray?

When the photo is obvious, why point out race or anything else other than the female officer? So yes everything else is unnecessary.

Another question, does your friend refer to themselves as a mulatto? And they are a proclaimed racists? Do they judge part of themselves or just all the other races?

 

[Molly Bloom]

Thanks for the careful response. I disagree with you on several points and let me explain how I feel.

I don't always preface a thought about Bono being short - only when it occurs to me in the context of a situation (i.e. when he is standing next to Bill Clinton who I never thought was so much taller than him.) Again.. in a picture like this it is relevant that he is short and I do find this kind of funny as well as Bono has so much power and is such a small man overall. Bono thinks this is amusing as well when he said during Popmart (many times) "I'm such a little guy! But you make me feel so big" I never heard anyone attack him for saying that - not in the slightest! Bono also said something to the effect of not hanging out with tall people but that he makes an exception for Clinton - "he's pretty rock star himself." I never heard anyone attack that. Yet by similar logic as some have used to point the finger at me... Bono should be considered as prejudiced against short people! Which would be well.... kind of silly.. to even suggest... I think... Just as absurd as incinuating that I am racist or getting offended by a relevant situational qualification.

You also say "i also think many people feel it is a racist thing to find it 'cute' that a black woman would like a white man. it smacks of stereotyping."

Let's be clear - this is not just a black woman. She is a black officer who appeared to be smiling at and admiring Bono. She was not just a black woman... she was a black officer who had a "cute" look on her face IMO and is one of a handful of black women I have (only in the last few years) seen (apparantley)admiring Bono. Also.. this is not just any white man. This is my favorite irishman who wears wrap around sunglasses with purple shirts with gold ties and sometimes scares people in political power. He also seems to have an effect on women and until the last few years... I never saw much specific evidence that this included some black women. Then I hear Queen Latifah admiring his appearance at some awards show and now this lady smiling at him.

Can you see the difference? This is not just "some black woman smiling at a white man." There are exacting details (if you know the history) that make this VERY relevant. This is an impossible point to disagree with I think.

Then you have said "Until we stop letting people, the media included, make skin colour the relevant factor in so many things it will always be a way of dividing people. Until we stop lumping people together as a way to identify them the negative feelings and attitudes between the races will continue. It is a continuing, and vicious, circle. "

Here's the thing: this statement comes from an idealistic viewpoint when the world is, undoubtedly, not perfect. The fact is that people do judge based on color (in hateful ways as well) whether you think it is wrong or not. As long as people sin (as long as this crazy world spins IMO) this will occur. I did lump that officer together with Queen Latifah in my mind as "black women I have seen smile / appear to admire Bono." I still don't see how that is wrong or sinful or hatefully judgemental or reason to take offense unless someone is coming from a negative stance themselves...

It may be judgemental... but not negatively or hatefully so. Some judgement, after all, is fair. Is it wrong to say "that man loves to play tennis" when he loves to play tennis? Or is it a fair judgement?

Whenever someone attacks me for relevantly qualifying... I have always seen it be: they have race issues, ego issues, inferiority/superiority complexes... and that the judgement of an honest and releveant situational qualification on my part is a reflection on one of their own (negative) issues and never an indication of my racism.

Then you say "I have always thought skin colour was no more relevant than eye colour... a variation of the melanin amount in a person's skin is no measure of what kind of person they are, nor is it an indicator of who they can and will love or what type of treatment they deserve in any situation. "

Well if you look at world this is not the case. Skin color is relevant as different races have much different history's and have lived in different locales in the world. As an example.... every single dry cleaning shop within 10 miles of my house (there are a bunch) is run by an Asian person. Is it racist for me to say so or simply a fact? I agree with your second statement for the most part and find that a very noble thought. However... I do think different races tend to have different characteristics and that this is often a result of their cumulative experiences over the years. If every race were identical in every way... like I have said... the NBA would have an equal (or much closer to equal) amount of white and black starting players. I could cite several more examples as proof positive of this (I have already proved it I feel) but I am getting long winded.

Sorry, btw, to rant, but I have a friend who has irritated me so much over the years with some of the same attacks I have heard from others... that I feel the need to point out it is other's issues and not mine in the least.

VERY IRONIC AND NOTEWORTHY: The title of the new video on U2LOG.com is "White Dude Dancing." WHY IS ANYONE NOT OFFENDED I ASK YOU?! IS THAT NOT RACIST AS WELL?

Or do the same people who attack me think it is OK to qualify with white people? Ask yourself... would the same people attacking me even have blinked? Or would they laugh? Probably laugh and it is because (in this thread) they have their own negative issues so they judge and attack and accuse me of being something I am not. Why the double standard? It's OK to mention that somone is white but not black? If the same person attacks me for qualifying someone as black (when it is factually relevant - let's stop pretending that this is not a fact) and does not attack U2log.com for qualifying Edge as "white" then they are hypocrites and in fact selecting based on race... which indeed makes them racists in a sense. So... like I said... in my first post... and just (almost) completely proved: a substantial portion of those who attack me based on relative qualification are projecting their own issues onto others.

Which sickens me b/c I am tired of it.

Lastly, you say "Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are ignorant."

I agree completely however some attacks against me were born of ignorance IMO.

I do want to let you know that I enjoyed the tone and careful insights that you shared in your post. You appear to be a class act. Please do not be offended that I do strongly disagree with some of your feelings. Everyone's thoughts are very valid unless they are born of ignorance and / or ego based judgement IMO (yours do not seem to be.)

FREE YOUR MIND

i am not offended that you don't agree with me. I am a bit idealistic but the world needs dreamers We plant the seeds of change and the more practical people water and weed them!
i grew up in a situation that was very hard, and where there was a lot of violence, due to political and religious beliefs not differentiated by race, so my views are different than some might be. I do think there is a difference between chosen ignorance and ignorance due to circumstance and that makes a difference in the validity of statements born of ignorance!
Have a great tuesday!
M

 

[redhill]

I think pointing out that this thread has nothing to do with the original question would either get the thread back to the original discussion or close the thread.

So yes I added to it.

I agree that the topic of the thread has changed - good point.

When the photo is obvious, why point out race or anything else other than the female officer? So yes everything else is unnecessary.

Using the same logic those attacking my views would use....your qualifying her as female is sexist. Would it offend YOU if people started posting and incinuating that you were sexist? Please answer this - I would like to seriously know.

Also, I have provided several reasons why I feel her color is relevant. If it is not relevant, then can anyone provide another time in the history of the band U2 that Bono has been featured repeatedly in the media being admired by black women?

I would appreciate that the next person who disagrees with me answer this simple question with a 'yes' or 'no.' I doubt they will b/c answering it honestly (there has been no other time we know of in the history of the band) proves my point tht her color was relevant.

Another question, does your friend refer to themselves as a mulatto? And they are a proclaimed racists? Do they judge part of themselves or just all the other races? .

Yes he does... to be clear... he gets offended (more like disgusted) if people call him white but is pleased if people consider him to be black. His mother is Asian and his father was black. Yes he admits that he has some racist views in regards to other races and is hyper sensitive to anyone, ever, being qualified as black regardless of context.

I hope I did not offend you earlier. Just feel like I am being attacked for defending myself and honestly am disheartened by the amount of people who would say I was wrong or incinuate I am racist (which I take VERY seriously) without even attempting to back up their points.

 

[BVS]

Using the same logic those attacking my views would use....your qualifying her as female is sexist. Would it offend YOU if people started posting and incinuating that you were sexist? Please answer this - I would like to seriously know.

I haven't seen the photo, but if there are no male officers in the photo then just refer to her as the officer...it's not that hard.

Also, I have provided several reasons why I feel her color is relevant. If it is not relevant, then can anyone provide another time in the history of the band U2 that Bono has been featured repeatedly in the media being admired by black women?

Naomi Cambell, but how the hell does that matter? This is where you're really losing the point.

Yes he does... to be clear... he gets offended (more like disgusted) if people call him white but is pleased if people consider him to be black.

Wow, I've never in my lifetime ever heard of anyone of mixed race refer to themselves as a mulatto, most find it a very offensive term. But I'll take your word for it.

 

[Galeongirl]

I don't think I will ever agree with Redhill...
might be the different parts of the world we live in, or a different look on history of racial difference..
I still don't think it should be brought up,... but if you think it's relevant to do, go ahead.. I ain't stoppin ya!

 

[pgv]

I don't think I will ever agree with Redhill...
might be the different parts of the world we live in, or a different look on history of racial difference..
I still don't think it should be brought up,... but if you think it's relevant to do, go ahead.. I ain't stoppin ya!

Yeah i agree.
I think you are in a bit of a minority there redhill..but im by no means saying you arent allowed an opinion.

 

[Sicy]

I think this thread has run its course. This topic has turned into more of a FYM topic anyway so if you wish to continue to discuss it you can start a new thread there.