"******"

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mikal

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was anyone else shocked when bono used that word during BTBS(Elevation Tour), and Elvis Ate America? obviously, it wasn't used as a racial slur, but i was still suprised that the B-man chose that word.

by all means, i wasn't offended by it, but i know some people just have so much hatred towards that word.

thoughts?


ps. anyone see the chappelle show skit with the white family with the last name "niggar"? funny shit.
 
It definitely got my attention. Unfortunately, I heard that word SO much growing up (but not directed towards me cus I'm white, lol) that when I heard Bono say it I thought "um...some people are going to take that the wrong way" instead of reacting to it for myself. I guess if I were him I would've not used that word.
 
Personally, the 'N' word bothers me more than the 'F' word. I'm all for free speach and freedrom of expression but that doesn't mean I have to like what is being said.
 
It's not Bono calling Elvis "white n****r," it's more of what others
called him.......the racist KKK type people back then.
Yes....it got my attention when Bono said it.
 
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It's all about the context. Look at Zoo TV 'Bullet', having a show in Germany where the TV screens show burning crucifixes turning into burning swastikas looks pretty horrendous on paper, but in the context of the show and the song it made sense.

....to me anyway..:shrug:
 
Bono is a songwriter, he is free to choose any lyric he wants - whether he says ****** or not. What's wrong with the ****** word anyway? From my part of the world it doesn't mean anything.

Cheers,

J
 
Jick, "******" is a very offensive/rasist word to describe black people.

I don't know about Elvis ate america, but on BTBS he said "rock'n'roll ******", not talking about black people, but John Lennon as evident by the rest of that rap bit. In that context, it wasn't offensive to me.
 
It's all context. Patti Smith tried to redefine the word (which is what Bono was referencing in "Bullet" for whatever reason).

http://www.oceanstar.com/patti/lyrics/******.htm
 
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Why would ****** be an offensive word? Coming from the Philippines, we are called "flips" or "monkeys without tails". I don't find that offensive at all, just like how we call Americans "joe" or "uncle sam." I don't think Americans find that offensive. Or we call the Indians "bombay" or the Chinese "chinks".

So what if the blacks are called niggers? Where did the word ****** come from and what makes it so offensive? I would consider profane words as much more offensive.

Besides, let us not try to hamper with Bono's artistic freedom. He has all the right in the world to use the term ******, although I felt it was quite misplaced in reference to Elvis. He should have used it in Angel of Harlem. Billie Holiday was a great ****** and a lot of the Harlem people are niggers -- many who helped perform the gospel version of I Still Haven't Found.

Cheers,

J
 
Understanding where and how the term ****** has been used in the past might put it into context for you jick.

Take their word for it in here though, they're not pissing in your pocket - it is an incredibly offensive word.
 
Yeah but it is really no big deal. The ratio of ****** U2 fans is much much less than those of other races. I even doubt there is a ****** here in Interference who posts regularly, but I could be wrong.

Cheers,

J
 
mikal said:

ps. anyone see the chappelle show skit with the white family with the last name "niggar"? funny shit.
That skit cracked me up.

As for Bono, I think his intent was obviously not racist, but using the word as a general derogatory term to make his point.

Anyone remember (probaly not you whippersnappers) the Axl Rose flap over the song "One in a Million"...the song contains lines about "Police and Niggers" as well as "Immigrants and Faggots", and Axl caught a lot of flak.
He tried to explain off the use of "******" as a non-racist derision towards the bad members of society, black, white , yellow and purple. Of course it was a little hard to swallow coming from Ax-hole Rose.
 
Jick, you really don't have any idea of what you are talking about. Obviously you've never read much about Martin Luther King Jr or the civil rights movement. You need to increase your knowledge in order to understand just how offensive this word is. I've grown up my entire life hearing this word used only as a derrogative form of speech. It has ALWAYS been used to hurt or put down someone of the African American race. I also understand how and what Bono is saying in this song and feel he does have a right to his form of expression, but I don't care for this particular word no matter how it's used. Furthermore, Even if there aren't any blacks posting on this forum, I will say, with all due respect Don't refer to the black population - anywhere - as niggers. It is not the correct way, politically or otherwise to refer to a beautiful people.
 
sue4u2 said:
Jick, you really don't have any idea of what you are talking about. Obviously you've never read much about Martin Luther King Jr or the civil rights movement. You need to increase your knowledge in order to understand just how offensive this word is. I've grown up my entire life hearing this word used only as a derrogative form of speech. It has ALWAYS been used to hurt or put down someone of the African American race. I also understand how and what Bono is saying in this song and feel he does have a right to his form of expression, but I don't care for this particular word no matter how it's used. Furthermore, Even if there aren't any blacks posting on this forum, I will say, with all due respect Don't refer to the black population - anywhere - as niggers. It is not the correct way, politically or otherwise to refer to a beautiful people.

Ok, so now this is so off topic already, but what makes ****** offensive? Can someone give me the skinny on what the word stands for?

I get that "sucker" means "you suck", or "asshole" means you're "shit comes out of you" - so on its face those words are demeaning. But what about ******? Where does the word come from? Or where is it derived from?

Just want some clarification. Sorry for being off-topic. By the way, I think blacks are a beautiful race. I do like Bob Marley's songs and find Alicia Keys quite attractive (no, no, no, I don't find Beyonce attractive at all, unfortunately).

Cheers,

J
 
Jick, I think it came from the word "Negro" used to decribe a black person way back when the white people were capturing them from Africa and bringing them to North America as slaves. Negro became "******" and I'm not really sure what it means, but basically when you call a black persona a ****** you're saying that they are inferior to you just because they are black. Not cool.
 
He used it via paraphrase; the words he recited were written by Patti Smith, and Lennon also wrote something called "Woman is the ****** of the world".... two people who were hugely influential on the man.

It's a loaded, hateful word and not to be used lightly; to understand how and why he recited the piece, look at Patti Smith (a white woman, by the way) sites and read the whole thing in context.

It was a shock to my system as well, just to hear the word coming from him, but within the context I understood what he was doing.

Hate speech is ugly. It's never to be used lightly, despite the trends within individual groups to "reclaim" such words amongst themselves...
whether it's ******, faggot, chink, Jap, or Mick...

Yes, amongst a few friends of mine and I who are all of Irish descent, we will joke around and call one another Mick; is it right? I can't say. Same for my queer friends... and again I can't tell you if it's the right thing to do, or whether it truly is a double standard of "I can say it but you'd better not".

Simple fact is, it's just a word, like any other...
but it is immensely burdened by centuries of ugliness, injustice, sadness, pain and death...
and you MUST respect that emotional load if you intend to use the word.
 
It's OK for black people to say it to each other, but if you're white and you say it, you'll be branded a racist. Or you'll get beat up, depending on who you say it to.
Just out of curiosity, do the Irish find the word "Paddy" offensive? I've never heard "Mick" before, just "Paddy."
 
Didn't Bono once write two lyrics for a song he never finished that go "Pull the trigger on the rock and roll ******, bigger than Jesus on a bumper sticker?"
 
Like some have said, look at the context.

In the time Elvis was making it big there was a lot of hatred towards Elvis and others because they were singing "black" music and in there eyes that was wrong. He was called "the white ******" because of his music and dancing.

The other like someone said earlier is reference to Patti Smith.

I can see if someone didn't know the context it may have raised an eyebrow, but now Bono has gotten a few folks to check out the history of some of those that influenced him.
 
"Pull the trigger on the rock and roll ******, bigger than Jesus on a bumper sticker?"

the whole quote is a reference to john lennon... to his "woman is ****** to the world" song, to his "the beatles are bigger than Jesus" quote...

like what's been said already... for those who were aware of these things, it was a strong moment in the show, but not offensive... those who weren't aware may certainly have raised an :eyebrow:
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Like some have said, look at the context.

In the time Elvis was making it big there was a lot of hatred towards Elvis and others because they were singing "black" music and in there eyes that was wrong. He was called "the white ******" because of his music and dancing.

The other like someone said earlier is reference to Patti Smith.

I can see if someone didn't know the context it may have raised an eyebrow, but now Bono has gotten a few folks to check out the history of some of those that influenced him.

Agreed.

I've heard that the "n" word came about because when black people from...Niger, I believe it was, were coming over here, white people, upon finding out where they were from, mispronounced the name of their homeland, and thus the "n" word was born. Now when you look at it from that standpoint, it doesn't sound as bad, but then of course, the rest of the history surrounding that word proves otherwise.

I personally never use that word, or other terms that are used to insult various races/ethnicities-I don't like them, but when people do use them, as pointed out, it's helpful to look at the context they're in, first off, and second, even if somebody did use them in a derogatory sense, they do have the right to say them.

We certainly don't have to like that these words are being said and we can tell those who use them in a cruel manner that those kinds of words bother us, but they can say them. Let those who do say them with the intent on being cruel look like the racist fool they are, hopefully people will realize how stupid the person saying these slurs in a cruel manner sounds and will refuse to associate themselves with that kind of thinking.

Besides, no matter what the word is that is being used, a word can bother you only if you let it.

Angela
 
wow. this topic took off better than i thought.

i simply was asking what people thought of bono using that word.

jick, i usually respect your opinion, but i think you're forgetting that no matter what the actual meaning of the word is, people still get offended by it, and it's something that should be respected.
 
Flying FuManchu said:
Good thing black people don't generally go to U2 concerts b/c Bono would have caught a lot of flack and negative publicity...

:eyebrow: don't know if that's true...


I don't know... I listen to cypress Hill and I hear B real (he's latin, like me) saying "nigga" every 5 seconds... he talks about another life styles where that word has took a particular dimension (still offensive anyway)... He is part of that world so he knows what he's talking about...

Of course there's a difference between B real and Bono. but Bono was describing a very delicate situation and the word was part of that , part of that cruel situation, so you have to read the whole thing to understand.

yes.. I think that context change the perception of things.. but I just can't say that word to anyone cuz I know that it has a very complex meaning... You can hear things like "Gringo" or "Yankee" here, sometimes like a regular innofensive word (especially "gringo") , sometimes in the most despective meaning :|
 
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U2zoogirl said:


:eyebrow: i don't know if that's true....


I don't know... I listen to cypress Hill and I hear B real (he's latin, like me) saying "nigga" every 5 seconds... he talks about another life styles where that word has took a particular dimension (still offensive anyway)... He is part of that world so he knows what he's talking about...

Of course there's a difference between B real and Bono. but Bono was describing a very delicate situation and the word was part of it, part of its cruelty, so you have to read the whole thing to understand.

yes.. I think that context change the perception of things.. but I just can't say that word to anyone cuz I know that it has a very complex meaning...
 
Flying FuManchu said:
Good thing black people don't generally go to U2 concerts b/c Bono would have caught a lot of flack and negative publicity...

WTF? I know plenty of black people who go to U2 concerts. Just because they are a minority at the concert doesn't mean they don't generally go. Bono wouldn't have caught any flak for this, no where in the context of him using it was it offensive.
 
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