NFL Nixes Bono, J-Lo AIDS Duet

[Strato Edge]

1) this doesn't answer my question.....

2) so when the pandemic finishes knocking out Africa and Asia and spreads to Europe and North America, we should just let it keep going eh? b/c it's a dead issue..... I'm guessing you don't have any dead friends that lost their lives to AIDS.

3) you should read about Uganda, now talk about a POOR third world country, but they have been able to successfully slow their rates of infection while increasing literacy at the same time. Uganda has proven that no one has the right to say it CAN'T be helped, because they DID.

4) the only valid point in your arguement is WHO takes the money. that's a good question, that many world leaders are in the process of answering. no money is being wasted b/c none is being sent until the government is satisfied and ensured that the government and organizations in Africa are prepared to absorb large-scale funding effectively.

5) your comments are a perfect example of how important it is for people to get educated

Education has nothing to do with it. My OPINON is that it makes no sense. I know the facts, I know them well.

 

[Katey]

No Strato Edge I beg to differ.. If you know the fact and figures.. then you are ignoring them...

although respecting your right to your opinion could you explain what you know well .

As for the money.. The Global Fund has a very good process of monitoring and directing the money .. read up on that if you must

 

[U2girl]

just wanted to edit this post but I ended up qouting it...sorry

 

[U2girl]

*sigh* It seems the only one damned either way is Bono. If he shakes hands of politicians, he should "stick to music and stop kissing ass". If he tries to work through music and get younger people's attention with collaborations with popular singers, he's "demeaning his and U2's status".

If the media makes it look like NFL doesn't care about AIDS, Bono has nothing to do with it. It looks to me like they talked and they will send players, not to "trade" it for a song, but out of their own interest and free will. (I'm pretty sure Bono is not as powerful as to control NFL bosses' decisions or what the media writes)

Well Superbowl has a huge audience and I think it's a bit odd to just assume no one won't care. (if Bono was to perform, surely at least U2 fans and others - knowledgeable/caring on the topic - would watch)
1) as said, it is a huge audience and therefore a huge opportunity to try and raise awareness.
2) fact is none of the young stars out there are doing anything about AIDS issue and err, someone like Bono is a lot more credible - not only as a musician but because of his history of activism - in talking, performing sons on the topic than a pop act. Who's to say he didn't already try that and maybe couldn't get anyone to do it? (again, he rallied up plenty and more than enough pop acts on What's goin on - single and video to promote fight against AIDS, like you said. it was done already, and proceeds did go to charity. maybe African Prayer will also get a video yet)
If those young stars are as interested as you suggest, I'd sure like to know where they are - no one out there seems to be interested - except for Chris Martin, but he's doing the Make trade fair thing. Besides, if a pop star would start up rallying on AIDS issue, I bet a lot of people here would go "he/she is jumping on a bandwagon and is not serious about it" or "he/she is not cool enough".

He'd try and get more people interested into the issue, that's what he'd get out of it. It's not about "now I can say I've been at the Superbowl twice". Give him more credit than that.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

just because the nfl doesn't want lobying going on durring it's half time show in no way says that they don't care about aids. i happen to agree with 'em... ya do it once, what's next? just keep dedicating different half time shows to different causes? things can be just for entertainment sometimes... it doesn't always have to have some deeper meaning.

 

[U2girl]

Um, would dedicating a half time show to a cause really be that much worse than the skimpy dressed women singing shallow songs "live"?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

there's nothing wrong with skimpy dressed women

 

[Liesje]

just because the nfl doesn't want lobying going on durring it's half time show in no way says that they don't care about aids. i happen to agree with 'em... ya do it once, what's next? just keep dedicating different half time shows to different causes? things can be just for entertainment sometimes... it doesn't always have to have some deeper meaning.

exactly, I've never really minded trashy or skanky, fake performances at the Superbowl b/c in my mind, they're really no worse than the professional sports.

 

[Leeloo]

I agree with Bono's work. Somebody has to do it, and he is right - this is the defining moral issue of our time.

However, I think that when you are pushing an issue like this, which is complicated, you need to do it right. And I don't believe that the halftime of the Superbowl is necessarily the best way. Also, Bono should remember a valuable fact of physiology: when something is shoved down your throat, the inate response is to throw it back up.

Africa is a matter that needs help. Many of us are willing. But you cannot force people to get involved and you can't guilt them into it either. At the end of the day, lots of us have to pay our mortgages, pass our exams, feed our kids, walk our dogs. Those are human realities in the west. The Superbowl is another.

Bono is fighting the good fight here, but there are more constructive ways to do it than this. Most people who watch the Superbowl want to have a nice afternoon with friends, eat crap and drink beer, not a guy proselytizing on TV. Give them their afternoon, then educate them on the following day.

Good points

Especially this, which is one thing I've been trying to say:

when something is shoved down your throat, the inate response is to throw it back up.

And at the end of the day, some people have a lot worse problems than the ones you mentioned, and just knowing people in Africa are worse off doesn't take that away when you're the one who has to live it. All we can do is email or send a card to our congressmen and then it's up to them. In the end it's up to them anyway, so that's why I believe Bono lobbying congress will do more good than any music project.

I also see what Strato Edge is getting at. He sounds plenty educated to me. I know a lot of people who can't see throwing billions at people who are going to die anyway, or debt that will only be built back up in a few years. Some very smart and religious people honestly believe some people are meant to be winnowed out like the weak in an antelope herd! I have heard some say, with no answer, who will feed, clothe, house and employee the ten million people whose lives Bono means to save?

I agree with him about the greedy leaders and the gold toilets because that is exactly what has happened to a lot of the donated money over the years- it never makes it to those who need it and those it was donated for. It had a lot to do with the Ethiopian famine lasting so long. They had a Civil War going on and warring factions prevented people from getting to food, and donations from getting to their destination. I believe the ONLY way to REALLY help is to get someone like the Peace Corps to hand carry it directly to the villages themselves with the protection of UN peace forces.

One more thing thrown into this, I have even heard African Americans, like actor Tim Reid, and others in the US and Africa say this reputation of Africa=dying and starving is actually HURTING any progress they are trying to make over there by stamping that label on it. They claim they have modern cities and millions of people living productive and healthy lives, and that all countries including the US have poor kids and people dying of AIDS. Of course all this doesn't mean nothing should be done, but what and how it's done makes all the difference.

 

[Katey]

Yes.. you make good points and valid points indeed.

Africa is not a country of people who want ot be or need to be pityed at all. They are simple people who could use help..
The biggest line in the sand in Africa is between the haves, not coming to the aid.. helping the have nots in the past.. Obvioulsy a long history about how Afrcia has gotten to be what it is today.. So yes sometimes when Africa is portayed all over as this place full of famine and hunger .. people label it that way.. But the Aids and HIV epidemic does not discriminate.. it affects the rich just as it does the poorest in Africa.. the differnce is that those rich can afford the treatments .and. still this disease wipes out policemen,farmers, poltician, buisnessmen , and in part tair apart their economy in Africa. leaves defense in a bad state and so to many other numerous problems.

The difference in the U.S as Oprah once said is at least .. if you are an orphan in America eventually someone is going to find you and try to help .. give you education ... there are laws for that ... give you treatment ..
So this is human rights.. the right to access to medicines.. to water .. to education.. etc etc..


ya for Bono he still is working just as much with Congress and the Lobbying as well .. but he is trying too to reach the people so they will stand up and have their voice heard .. Bono doesnt have a vote the public do.. he looks to grass roots movements so he doesnt have to continue to do this.. So far it hasn't happened like he thinks it should .. so he plays both cards and uses who he is to his advantage.. Sometimes that might come across as to much or arogant. or not in the right place or time like the Superbowl .. I don't think that is jamming it down throats.. It's not bono trying to get publicity for him .. just this emergency Everyone has the right to say no just as the NFL did..

 

[Leeloo]

The thing is Africa is not a country at all, it's a continent. A very large one with many different countries with varying governments, religions, and lifestyles. I met a girl from Lagos, Nigeria, from a well to do family who told me she was upset as soon as she mentioned "Africa" people automatically thought of skinny, bloated bellied kids in the desert, and wild animals. She said in her city all wild animals were in the zoo and almost all kids were well fed and healthy, but the image of dying, starving "Africa" was the stereotype branded on everyone's minds. (It has been that way for at least 30 years, and it still hasn't made everyone get up in arms, so it's hard to think they would now, sadly)

There are certain countries, or regions of countries that need help more than others. In the 80's it used to be Ethiopia that was mentioned but now it seems the whole situation is called "Africa" and a lot of Africans are saddened by that. But of course anyone who wants to help will be able to find out where and how to help. The African well fund is an example of that!

One more thing I want to bring up on this is that these people hold things to a different standard than most of the non-third world. For example, I saw a teenage girl on TV COMPLAINING about the college activists who tried to stop the 'sweat shops' in some African and other nations, because as bad as they look to people in more prosperous nations, that is the best paying work they can get, and in some cases the easiest. She said that after complaints, the sweat shops pulled out, and some of the girls as young as 11 were forced to turn to prostitution for money! She said people think it's bad compared to THEIR lives back home, but by the standards of the poor nations, it was good work and pay. There is no way any of those cultures will ever be like America, and maybe they don't even want it that way.

 

[Liesje]

The thing is Africa is not a country at all, it's a continent. A very large one with many different countries with varying governments, religions, and lifestyles. I met a girl from Lagos, Nigeria, from a well to do family who told me she was upset as soon as she mentioned "Africa" people automatically thought of skinny, bloated bellied kids in the desert, and wild animals. She said in her city all wild animals were in the zoo and almost all kids were well fed and healthy, but the image of dying, starving "Africa" was the stereotype branded on everyone's minds. (It has been that way for at least 30 years, and it still hasn't made everyone get up in arms, so it's hard to think they would now, sadly)

Excellent point! Which is why it's so stupid to say that African's are all below us in terms of medicine and taking care of themselves. Unfortunately, in the 80s, people were into believing that since poor people don't have watches, they'd have no way to tell time and wouldn't be able to take medicine.....whatever! Some of the most influential AIDS helpers in Africa are groups of HIV positive women who, with no means of supporting themselves, have banded together and dedicated their lives to nursing and supporting other AIDS patients. I'm sure if these women can handle raising huge families of their own, and tending to the sick in their community, they are quite capable of something so basic as telling time and taking/administering medicines.

 

[Liesje]

There are certain countries, or regions of countries that need help more than others. In the 80's it used to be Ethiopia that was mentioned but now it seems the whole situation is called "Africa" and a lot of Africans are saddened by that. But of course anyone who wants to help will be able to find out where and how to help. The African well fund is an example of that!

Another thing to add, your post hints at how influential the correlation between AIDS and poverty really is. Personally, if I were to draw up my own plans for most effectively asisting Africa's AIDS pandemic, it would not be spending all, or even most of the funding on medicines or vaccinations, but education so that those stuck in a vicious cycle of poverty can learn how to protect themselves from AIDS as well as learn skills to support themselves and not turn to prostitution. And also like many have mentioned regarding corrupt leaders, I would hope that the US is not stupid enough to make the same mistake twice. I'm assuming they are holding off on massive funding until trustworthy, stable governments are in place. But there again, a stable government requires a stable economy, so addressing poverty is key *coughcanceldebtsunilaterallycough*

 

[Katey]

The thing is Africa is not a country at all, it's a continent. A very large one with many different countries with varying governments, religions, and lifestyles

Continent yes Continents..sorry slip of tongue there .
Africa is a diverse Continent and yes you can't paint Africa all in the same color at all..I have worked with different business people who come to Canada on exchange and also are suprised to find when they get there how sympatehic people treat them..ohh it must be hard for you in Africa. Im sorry. "sorry .. He would say to me..I don't understand this pity they have towards me.. I love South Africa and it is a marevlous place ..beacuse I am African they paint me in this poverty picture .. how shameful for them.. " He was from J-Burg a city he describes to be not unlike Toronto.. al be it a bit more dangerous.. And for him he lives in much more luxury then many people I know in Canada .

He educated me greatly about Africa and the different cultures even within .. An when we talked about the HIV/Aids and Debt Crisis he helped me to understand an African side.. they don't want the pity

..from an e-mail...

" All these people want is the opportunity,, not charity, the rules they are so unfair .. the government it needs to rebuild,, but we have not the resources alone.. and now hope through this Global Fund ... You can not understand what it means to those who thought this would always be their life .. you can not understand until you see it effects this entire nation, you want people here to stand up ,soon there will be no one left to stand up if things do not change , when we pay back these debts and have nothing left for education for health , when you do not let our food into your country but takeover the shelves of ours it is a problem ..in any nation that is a problem in America it would never happen, We are not asking to be America , Africa is a proud but do we need help yes.. it is much about equality , education and the right to things one deserves in life regardles of rich or poor"



Anyway I am rambling the cold medication is getting to me.

But I will say this.. if I could be witness to anything close to Angels on earth it would be the workers and volunteers involved with organizations such as TAC many of whom have HIV'Aids themselves but are nurses and care providers who are helping Aid patients. amazing is the only word for it the work they do..and there are many mor examples

And studies have proven that patients and health care providers in Africa have one of the best repuations of anywhere in deleivering and understanding, administering and dispensing medication..


(Debt, Aids, Trade, Africa) also ( Democracy, Accountbility, Transcparency, Africa)

 

[Leeloo]

Personally, if I were to draw up my own plans for most effectively asisting Africa's AIDS pandemic, it would not be spending all, or even most of the funding on medicines or vaccinations, but education so that those stuck in a vicious cycle of poverty can learn how to protect themselves from AIDS as well as learn skills to support themselves and not turn to prostitution.

And also like many have mentioned regarding corrupt leaders, I would hope that the US is not stupid enough to make the same mistake twice. I'm assuming they are holding off on massive funding until trustworthy, stable governments are in place. But there again, a stable government requires a stable economy, so addressing poverty is key *coughcanceldebtsunilaterallycough*

NO money through leaders, take it directly to the places in need like the African Well Fund and Africare do. I would say in an ideal situation, if the right places could be found through the activists to take the stuff in guarded by UN peacekeepers of some kind to stop any rotten military factions, or even looters, from taking the help from the ones who need it!

 

[Katey]

*

And also like many have mentioned regarding corrupt leaders, I would hope that the US is not stupid enough to make the same mistake twice. I'm assuming they are holding off on massive funding until trustworthy, stable governments are in place. But there again, a stable government requires a stable economy, so addressing poverty is key *coughcanceldebtsunilaterallycough

The Global Fund unless I am wrong on this and if so let me know.. has in place measures for this.. which is where the money from the U.S goes into .. not just thrown across aimlessly ..

You can make the arguments of infrastructure along with absortive capacity " that is the notion Africa nations don't have the capacity to absorb all the money . But it has been proven that Africa can absorb much more then the 3 billion pledged The drugs will get to those who need them .. the good news is that the programming mechanism already exists.
The Global Fund to Fight AIDS, TB and Malaria is proving a trustworthy mechanism for programming these resources to complement bilateral programs. Global Fund grants are
programming resources while further pushing the capacity envelope by dedicating 40% of resources towards increasing human and physical infrastructure in recipient countries.


Are there problems.. yep.. but at 6500 lives a day you can't wait till its perfect.. You can look to examples such as Uganda to see how it is working

I am with you on cancel the debt.. while we are at make trade fair too..

 

[jick]

This thread has gone too much off topic. This is not about whether or not Africa can be realistically saved, or the merits of this campaign.

The bottom line is that the NFL flatly turned down Bono's self-serving duet request and the NFL was right about it and Bono was wrong.

Cheers,

J

 

[Liesje]

This thread has gone too much off topic. This is not about whether or not Africa can be realistically saved, or the merits of this campaign.

The bottom line is that the NFL flatly turned down Bono's self-serving duet request and the NFL was right about it and Bono was wrong.

Cheers,

J

thank you Captain Obvious

 

[V Nura]

If this is true

I dont fault either side really, Bono for trying or the NFL for saying no.


Bono wanted a way to expose the issue to a new audience, and the superbowl would do that. BUT if the nfl lets the halftime show have a political spin ( as in an issue not really just patriotism or the WTC memorial durign the u2 halftime show) it may snowball in the future artsists doing presidential endorsements at halftime, or talking about gun control etc etc.



Is it so wrong to reserve the 15 minutes between the halves of the superbowl for pure entertainment? And is it so wrong to ask to talk about the biggest issue facing the world at a time when millions of americans would be watching?


also take into account.... bono may have faced a backlash in the event he got to do this a backlash that may turn people off to teh issue itself. It may be a good thing in disguise.

 

[shaun vox]

i dont want to see bono(trying to sing) i want my playboy girls on superbowl!