nirniva
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I'm pretty sure this should be Interference's new slogan.
EDIT: IMHO, the lyrics are great. Suck it, haters.
More New Music Rumors and Such...
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EDIT: IMHO, the lyrics are great. Suck it, haters.
iota
War Child
I have to agree that Bono's lyrical abilities have been in decline this decade. He needs an editor.
I would basically consider his lyrics up to Zooropa as exceptional with a few mis-steps here and there. But overall, his lyrics were worth taking seriously. There was an excellence in his craft of word-smithing. To me, POP is the beginning of the decline. The lyrics weren't bad, but they began to seem like he was imitating himself. I'd say in the last decade, he is competent but not excellent. And there have been some abysmal lapses in judgment.."air is heavy like a truck" is exibit A. That's just beyond horrible. How do you put that in a song and look at your face in the mirror?
NLOTH was a move back to exceptional lyricism, with the exception of the middle three. Crazy Tonight, Get on your boots on, and stand up comedy come of as swarmy and forced. But the other songs are something of a return to form. White As Snow especially...
I actually think North Star is better lyrically than EBW. And it's too bad because all Bono has to do is tweak some of the clunkiness and come up with a more interesting chorus and EBW could be great. It also seems lame that he is recycling lyrics "I don't know if I'm that strong" - Playboy Mansion...and it wasn't even a good lyric in that song. These things just grate on me whenever I hear a new song with so much potential. Maybe Bono should take some extended time to go read poetry and get out of this 10 year slump...
I would basically consider his lyrics up to Zooropa as exceptional with a few mis-steps here and there. But overall, his lyrics were worth taking seriously. There was an excellence in his craft of word-smithing. To me, POP is the beginning of the decline. The lyrics weren't bad, but they began to seem like he was imitating himself. I'd say in the last decade, he is competent but not excellent. And there have been some abysmal lapses in judgment.."air is heavy like a truck" is exibit A. That's just beyond horrible. How do you put that in a song and look at your face in the mirror?
NLOTH was a move back to exceptional lyricism, with the exception of the middle three. Crazy Tonight, Get on your boots on, and stand up comedy come of as swarmy and forced. But the other songs are something of a return to form. White As Snow especially...
I actually think North Star is better lyrically than EBW. And it's too bad because all Bono has to do is tweak some of the clunkiness and come up with a more interesting chorus and EBW could be great. It also seems lame that he is recycling lyrics "I don't know if I'm that strong" - Playboy Mansion...and it wasn't even a good lyric in that song. These things just grate on me whenever I hear a new song with so much potential. Maybe Bono should take some extended time to go read poetry and get out of this 10 year slump...
iota
War Child
Just for a point of reference, what other artists would you consider great lyricists?
jphelmet
Refugee
well said. it's why i ignore pretty much all the lyric snobbery around here. i feel the same way about oots, since right when it came out my first child was born. it has huge emotional impact for me, because it is so intimately tied to my son's birth (we were listening to it at the hospital).
i could add loads of songs, that someone on here would tell me are lame or cliche- i just simply don't care. my experiences, and beliefs will color the way i see them and it will undoubtedly be different than most others, so i just don't let it bother me at all.
The John Tree
War Child
Bruce Springsteen is probably my favorite.
iota
War Child
I would go with Bob Dylan as the high watermark of lyricism. That might explain why we see things so differently.
Or not. Springsteen is a huge Dylan fan, took much of his inspiration from Dylan, used to be called "the new Dylan", and inducted Dylan into the R&R Hall of fame.
Well, but they do have somewhat different styles.
Generally, I think lyrics in rock songs have been much too obscure since the early 70s. The influence of (who else?) Bob Dylan and others -- the first generation to apply some brain cells to the art form -- seemed to lead people down a long and directionless road of trying to come off as "artistes" in their lyrics. The result is that most rock songs ended up with meaningless, mumbo-jumbo lyrics that the writer hoped we would take seriously in our confusion (see any Coldplay lyrics for evidence).
Sometimes, lyrics are better when simple. Or you can just tell a story. Or you can just speak some truth. And yes, cliches and cheese should be deleted.
quiltybones
The Fly
- Joined
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- 34
I think that as Bono has gotten older his lyrics have gotten both better and worse. When they're bad they're really bad. When they're good they're fucking great.
In general, he's totally underrated as a lyricist, even here on Interference. Take "Glastonbury." Sorry, but that's a damn fine lyric, meaningful on several levels at once. That's what poetry is all about -- compacting a lot of meaning into as few words as possible. Bono is getting better and better at this, but it's not that easy to do. I think he sometimes (understandably) sort of takes some songs off in the lyrical department. Still, I think there's far more "Kites" than "Elevations" in his body of work.
In general, he's totally underrated as a lyricist, even here on Interference. Take "Glastonbury." Sorry, but that's a damn fine lyric, meaningful on several levels at once. That's what poetry is all about -- compacting a lot of meaning into as few words as possible. Bono is getting better and better at this, but it's not that easy to do. I think he sometimes (understandably) sort of takes some songs off in the lyrical department. Still, I think there's far more "Kites" than "Elevations" in his body of work.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
LOL. You must not spend a lot of time in Everything You Know Is Wrong. Or better yet, try the official site?
By that rationale, you could listen some Celine Dion song written about her baby and have the same reaction, no? Your personal experience may enable a song to resonate with you but it doesn't make a lyric good. Some New Jersey loser may totally identify with Bon Jovi's Livin' on a Prayer but it's still a shit sandwich.
Having said that, I wouldn't point to Original of the Species as a bad lyric anyway. It's basic and has some typical lines, but still clever enough at times to distinguish itself.
Really, even Interference can handle only so much condescension...
iota
War Child
I don't think people would be so critical of Bono's recent lyrics if they were always this inconsistant. He distinguished himself early, so he'll always be held at a higher standard.
I remember reading in U2 at the end of the world that Flood would flat out refuse to let Bono resort to cliches and actually tell him no! And Zooropa was about as good as it gets lyrically. Great flow, colorful images, I can't think of a single clunker of a line in the whole album. Even "Some Days" is meant to be playful. A silly line or two in it is fitting...a silly line in a super-earnest slow burn like EBW isn't comparable, imho...
I think Bono needs to hire Flood to be his personal editor.
I remember reading in U2 at the end of the world that Flood would flat out refuse to let Bono resort to cliches and actually tell him no! And Zooropa was about as good as it gets lyrically. Great flow, colorful images, I can't think of a single clunker of a line in the whole album. Even "Some Days" is meant to be playful. A silly line or two in it is fitting...a silly line in a super-earnest slow burn like EBW isn't comparable, imho...
I think Bono needs to hire Flood to be his personal editor.
jameskinsella
The Fly
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2006
- Messages
- 161
My two cents.........Bono's a great lyricist, but not a great poet.
There's a difference between being a great lyricist and a great poet!
There's a difference between being a great lyricist and a great poet!
GirlsAloudFan
Blue Crack Addict
Whoa, hold up.
North Star doesn't resemble 00s U2 lyrically or musically? It's straight out of the HTDAAB era, and sounds like it could have fit perfectly on that album. The vocal melody in the bridge of North Star is lifted directly out of A Man And A Woman. And Bono recycles the "love and logic" idea from Miracle Drug.
I'm not even a North Star hater, I think it's a lovely tune, but it's definitely nothing new. We've heard and seen similar to this before and in no way does it signal the coming of U2 4.0
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Glastonbury resembles 00's U2 less than North Star, as the only other glammy song I can think of is Love and Peace or Else.
Yes.
Add me to the "sick of Lazarus" club here.
Christ, if the band is really not doing it for you these days, what are you doing here. You have AB, Zooropa and Pop on albums, right? You have bootlegs from this era? Listen to them. Don't waste your time here trying to convince us this or that lyric sucks.
Salome is right, we could all sit here with out of context lyrics from anywhere and decide based on said lyrics that a song sucks and is evidence of cliche ridden Bono crap.
"I want to run, I want to hide"
continue with the examples everyone..........
This is getting ridiculous.....
some people like the EBW lyric, some don't.
All we know is all of these new songs,with the exception of Glastonbury which sounds pretty damn finished, are rough sketches that we do not even know the lyrics to yet.
All I am doing at this point is enjoying the fact that they are being road tested and then offering some preliminary thoughts on them. I flat out refuse to make any kind of final judgement or conclusion about a road tested song or any aspect of it.
The John Tree
War Child
Then what's the point of having this conversation, or having this message board at all? Why don't you just lecture us all on what's wrong with U2 these days, and we'll all just take notes?
What DOES make a lyric good, or at least a step up from a "shit sandwich"?
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Oh, GOOD FOR YOU.
Actually, I love No Line on the Horizon and had a great time at both shows I went to last year. Who the fuck are you to assume that I'm stuck in the 90's? Just because I don't like the lyrics to Every Breaking Wave or some of the stuff on ATYCLB and HTDAAB? Why aren't you commanding Iota to do the same thing, since we seem to be in agreement here?
Don't tell me how to spend my time. I didn't come in here trolling to start a fight about EBW. I was appalled at reading all the hyperbolic responses to mostly banal lyrics and what I thought was a MEH performance outside of Bono's vocal and thought I would express my dissent, which as far as I can remember is allowed even in this drooling, sycophantic wing of Interference.
GirlsAloudFan
Blue Crack Addict
U2387 = owned.
I love EBW's lyrics, save for the "Hey, hey now" part, and I'm not sure that counts. He sticks to one powerful image and wrings meaning out of it, each riff on the image feeling natural and almost inevitable, at least to me. I think it's really effective.
But I'm just a fanboy. No special qualifications save being an English major at a pretty good school, and I'm more into fiction than poetry.
I think North Star could do without the space cowboy and universe business - it feels like the guy who wrote EBW, which feels personal without overreaching into grandiosity or coming off flat, could do a touch up job on North Star's lyrics and maximize the song's potential.
But U2 - like most other bands, I guess - don't always need great lyrics to make for a great song. Good lyrics will do the trick pretty often, and I think Glastonbury and North Star may be two examples of that.
But I'm just a fanboy. No special qualifications save being an English major at a pretty good school, and I'm more into fiction than poetry.
I think North Star could do without the space cowboy and universe business - it feels like the guy who wrote EBW, which feels personal without overreaching into grandiosity or coming off flat, could do a touch up job on North Star's lyrics and maximize the song's potential.
But U2 - like most other bands, I guess - don't always need great lyrics to make for a great song. Good lyrics will do the trick pretty often, and I think Glastonbury and North Star may be two examples of that.
zooropop40
Refugee
Exactly! Lyrics like art are subjective, if they relate to you then they are good- if not, then they are not.
Lyrics can be good or bad depending on the person. I think the EBW lyrics are great, but that just me.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Do you know MadForIt??
An Cat Gav
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
keep on doing your thing lazarus, I for one am far from sick of you pal.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Who gives a fuck?
Did you come in here to simply voice your disapproval or actually participate in the discussion?
Did you come in here to simply voice your disapproval or actually participate in the discussion?
dan_smee
ONE love, blood, life
Laz, I am usually right on board with you. Even if I dont actually agree with what you say, I can at least appreciate where you are coming from. You are always a champion of the objectivity/subjectivity debate.
This time, you have gone across that line to get your point home. Comments like "it is a bad lyric" are not usually your style. I fully appreciate and support your right to say that you think it is a shit lyric.
Others here haven't been quite diplomatic voicing their objections, but perhaps take on board that others (myself included) don't appreciate being made to feel like retards for enjoying the lyrics to a song. I am more than happy to have a discussion justifying why I like/dislike a lyric, but don't make people out to be morons for liking something by being over aggressive and frankly, a little bit self-righteous.
So anyway, chin up dude, I don't agree or condone the people saying shit like they are in the 'sick of lazarus club'. That is neither smart, nor helpful.
You are one of the sites best contributors, and people here may only see your contributions to EYKIW lately and get the wrong idea.
An Cat Gav
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
dan_smee
ONE love, blood, life
On all of this, EBW to me is their best effort since Pop. I know I haven't heard it complete blah blah, but the melody itself is the most intricate and interesting in a long time, and there are some lyrics I truely love and feel like he is putting his soul back in the music. The only lyric I don't like in the song is the "every gambler knows" line. It isn't meant to be taken literally, I get that, but it isn't a strong second line. If it was in the second verse, it'd be disguised well enough, and it might be more easily integrated into the theme of the song.
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
Earnie Shavers
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Bono can hit and miss as much as he likes, as far as I'm concerned. The only time I think lyrics are 'bad' is when I sense that he's being perhaps a bit lazy. You can have a bum line here and there in an otherwise lyrically great song, obviously. That's fine. And sometimes he's reaching for something across a whole song and just failing to get there. That is, of course, fine as well. But sometimes you get the feeling that either across a whole song, or large stretches of an album, he's either being lazy or is just too disengaged. But I'd also say that directness, or simplistic lyrics, are certainly not his strong point. That's when he most often drifts into cliche (either general or his own), or rough regurgitation. So a mix of both being disengaged and trying for simplistic/direct is kind of a perfect storm for, well, uninspiring lyrics.
bakedpony
The Fly
My ears hear "every silent leaf"
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