MERGED ->U2 to re-record Pop!+ Bono talking out of his arse!+Wait,what's this remast

[RobH]

let's not forget these elements in this mix:

1. the association with batman and the cartoon video for HMTMKMKM.

2. passengers.

3. adam and larry doing mission impossible.

Good point, Jofo...I had almost forgotten about that shite.

 

[Zoomerang96]

This is not for you Zootlesque, but for the person you quoted:

It's a good thing Ignore button helps avoiding reading broken records type of opinions of arrrogant people who obviously need an ego check if they seriously think they're the chosen ones who can "enlighten" everyone else.

the not getting it argument is too pathetic - and old - it's not even worth replying.

you 7ust did.

 

[namkcuR]

The not getting arguement is not at all pathetic. It's the truth. There are some things - not just music - any kind of art, that you either get it or you don't.

Normally I would argue a lot about this but I don't feel like it right now. AB is the only U2 record better than Pop, that has always been my opinon, that will always be my opinion. Everyone has their own.

Just one thing though, it's not universally accepted by fans as U2's worst work - if it was, people who don't like Pop wouldn't have to deal with all the POP fanboys like myself and zootlesque defending the record to the bitter end every time this debate surfaces

 

[U2girl]

The not getting arguement is not at all pathetic. It's the truth. There are some things - not just music - any kind of art, that you either get it or you don't.

Normally I would argue a lot about this but I don't feel like it right now. AB is the only U2 record better than Pop, that has always been my opinon, that will always be my opinion. Everyone has their own.

Just one thing though, it's not universally accepted by fans as U2's worst work - if it was, people who don't like Pop wouldn't have to deal with all the POP fanboys like myself and zootlesque defending the record to the bitter end every time this debate surfaces

Yes it is. Art - and music is a part of it - is something that you either like or not, it's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with getting the idea behind the art. (which is beside the point anyway)

Exactly, your opinion. One opinion. The problem is people who feel differently on Pop always get jumped on on this board.

Well I meant most fans - overall in U2's fanbase, not just the internet forums - don't think of Pop as one of the band's finest moments. Is that fair enough to say?

 

[U2Kitten]

Yes it is. Art - and music is a part of it - is something that you either like or not, it's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with getting the idea behind the art. (which is beside the point anyway)

Exactly, your opinion. One opinion. The problem is people who feel differently on Pop always get jumped on on this board.

Well I meant most fans - overall in U2's fanbase, not just the internet forums - don't think of Pop as one of the band's finest moments. Is that fair enough to say?

Yes it is fair to say and you are correct. But don't be surprised that you're going to get disagreed with. The thing some of the Pop worshippers need to realize is that they must separate their opinion from reality. If they love it, if it's first or second best to them, fine, okay, whatever. BUT- that is not the way the general fan populace or the general public sees it (we're not just talking a couple hundred diehards here on this forum, but the entire world)

Some people cannot and will not accept this, and instead lash out and blame the messengers who say it. The bottom line is, it's all about personal taste, and what's best to you personally is not what's best overall to most fans. This is no offense to anyone. I like a lot of obscure songs and movies and dislike a lot of very popular stuff. It doesn't matter. I like what I like, but that doesn't mean the entire world is going to agree with me. Most shows I like are cancelled the first year, while stuff I hate like Friends goes on for ages. That's just the way it goes. But I'm not going to call all Friends fans 'sheep' or too stupid to 'get' the shows that were cancelled. It just depends on what pulls your chain. No one is right or wrong.

 

[mikal]

LOL! i love how some take things way too seriously.

 

[namkcuR]

Yes it is. Art - and music is a part of it - is something that you either like or not, it's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with getting the idea behind the art. (which is beside the point anyway)

Exactly, your opinion. One opinion. The problem is people who feel differently on Pop always get jumped on on this board.

Well I meant most fans - overall in U2's fanbase, not just the internet forums - don't think of Pop as one of the band's finest moments. Is that fair enough to say?

#1:
I disagree emphatically. Every piece of art in existance started its life, was concieved, as an idea. Every piece of music, painting, written work, cinematic work(movies, TV, theatre, acting), sculpture, whatever, it ALL starts with an idea. And attempting to form an opinion about a piece of art without knowing and understanding the idea that spawned it, is akin to trying to form an opinion about the taste of a certain food without even trying it.

#2:
They only get jumped on when they so obviously don't get the idea behind Pop. See above. And for the record, I don't think I've ever jumped on anyone for it, I try to keep my arguements civil and respectful. But yes, everyone has an opinion.

#3:
I don't think it's fair to say that. I honestly think that the abundance of CRITIC reviews bashing the record combined with U2 saying negative things about it has given the impression that the fanbase dislikes it more than they actually do. Of course there are a lot of fans who think it's their worst work, but it's nowhere near 'universal', imo. Oh, and btw, I don't have a problem with the band saying negative things about the record as long as its genuine, because the artist has a broader view of what the piece of art ISN'T and what it COULD HAVE been, then any spectator could. Of course, if the band says things like that just because they want push the idea(see, we keep coming back to IDEAS) of their more recent records, that's another story altogether.

Ideas spawn Art. And Art in return spawns more ideas. Around and around we go.

 

[mikal]

^^^^^^^^^

good post. i look forward to u2girl's response. this one could get good folks!

 

[MrBrau1]

Did you ever have someone tell you a joke, get the joke, and not laugh?

 

[namkcuR]

Did you ever have someone tell you a joke, get the joke, and not laugh?

Of course. And if someone listens to the music, knows and gets the ideas behind it, and dislikes it, that's fine. But have you ever told a joke, have the recipient not get it, and find yourself so fond of the joke that you end up trying to explain the joke to the recipient?

 

[U2girl]

#1 True, but knowing the idea doesn't guarantee liking the piece of art. If I knew everything about cubism, would that mean I will love every single Picasso painting?

#2 I know, I know, critisizing the consumership and mocking pop culture and the idea of celebrity... everyone's noticed that if they listened to the album, saw the tour and the Mexico show. Knowing that does not mean people like(d) the album, and it all comes down to that IMO.

I was talking about the extremist side of Pop fans, the kind that only throws insults at others.

#3 Well, we all know they were rushing to finish the album before the tour. That - and not the "new post Pop U2" - is where all the finishing Pop talk comes from. They are perfectionists and it bothers them to have an album out that doesn't do whatever they wanted to do with it 100%.

I think the problem was presentation (Discotheque video, and the tour) and passing off Pop as a more dance album than it really was. Of course, bad reviews didn't help either.

 

[namkcuR]

#1 True, but knowing the idea doesn't guarantee liking the piece of art. If I knew everything about cubism, would that mean I will love every single Picasso painting?

#2 I know, I know, critisizing the consumership and mocking pop culture and the idea of celebrity... everyone's noticed that if they listened to the album, saw the tour and the Mexico show. Knowing that does not mean people like(d) the album, and it all comes down to that IMO.

I was talking about the extremist side of Pop fans, the kind that only throws insults at others.

#3 Well, we all know they were rushing to finish the album before the tour. That - and not the "new post Pop U2" - is where all the finishing Pop talk comes from. They are perfectionists and it bothers them to have an album out that doesn't do whatever they wanted to do with it 100%.

I think the problem was presentation (Discotheque video, and the tour) and passing off Pop as a more dance album than it really was. Of course, bad reviews didn't help either.

I never said knowing the idea behind the art would guarantee liking the art. I said that not knowing the idea behind the art would make it impossible for the person in question to say whether or not he/she likes the piece of art.

From this post I can tell that you do know and get the idea, in its most basic sense anyway, and if you get it and it still isn't your cup of tea, that's cool. Your opinion.

But where liking the idea and/or music is subjective and based on opinion, it is just FACTUALLY INCORRECT to say that the idea has nothing to do with the art or that the 'not getting it' arguement is not valid. The idea has everything to do with the art and not knowing or understanding the idea makes it impossible for you to form a valid opinion on the art.

But you DO get the idea, obviously, and you don't like it, and that's fine.

 

[larry_slo]

It's just show business.

 

[U2girl]

"I said that not knowing the idea behind the art would make it impossible for the person in question to say whether or not he/she likes the piece of art."

I disagree. It is possible to like - or dislike - art with or without knowing the idea. Subjective taste.

(not everyone who likes and enjoys, and certainly talks about art, is a reviewer or a critic)

 

[mikal]

too bad music can't be like pizza, the perfect blend of everything.

 

[namkcuR]

"I said that not knowing the idea behind the art would make it impossible for the person in question to say whether or not he/she likes the piece of art."

I disagree. It is possible to like - or dislike - art with or without knowing the idea. Subjective taste.

(not everyone who likes and enjoys, and certainly talks about art, is a reviewer or a critic)

You think I'm a review or critic?

Needless to say, I am in disagreement. Being a very artsy person myself, I am big into knowing the ideas and concepts behind art and generally deem it fact that to have a full understanding, appreciation, or lack of appreciation of art, you have to know the idea.

But we're not going to change each other's minds.

 

[JOFO]

pizza, the perfect blend of everything.

best statement yet.

pizza.

 

[starvinmarvin]

You think I'm a review or critic?

Needless to say, I am in disagreement. Being a very artsy person myself, I am big into knowing the ideas and concepts behind art and generally deem it fact that to have a full understanding, appreciation, or lack of appreciation of art, you have to know the idea.

But we're not going to change each other's minds.

That's all well and good if you are an artist creating art for art's sake, but when you are U2 it is a different matter.

As for your assertion that art cannot be fully understood unless you have a full understanding of the concept behind the art, it is complete bullocks. For example, U2's lyrics are generally ambiguous, and as such can be interpreted in different ways. That is why their music is so transcendent. The meaning the listener derives from the lyrics may not match the band's original concept, but this does not make it any less powerful.

 

[starvinmarvin]

Also, it is possible for the concept behind an album (or any piece of art) to be so inane that it is not worth taking the effort to fully understand. The audience is not obligated to research the concept behind every album before forming an opinion on it. If something looks stupid on the surface, 9 out of ten times it really is. Such is the case with Pop. I suppose the basic idea behind it was interesting, but the band's executiion of the idea was very weak.

 

[JOFO]

there's nothing wrong with the music on pop.

but the title sucks ass.

 

[Zoots]

there's nothing wrong with the music on pop.

but the title sucks ass.

Yeah, really. Any of these would've been better in my opinion:

Space Junk
Baby Jesus Under The Trash
Are We Just Starting Again?
Solar
Violet

 

[JOFO]

I think they should've called it last night on earth.

 

[Zoots]

I think they should've called it last night on earth.

Yeah. That would've been cool.

U2 - Last Night On Earth

 

[JOFO]

Yeah. That would've been cool.

U2 - Last Night On Earth

exactly....with a different cover; maybe bono taking a bite out of the earth like it was an apple.

 

[theu2fly]

I wonder what it would be like... wonder what it would be called?

U2 - Popped

??

 

[Zoots]

exactly....with a different cover; maybe bono taking a bite out of the earth like it was an apple.

I love the present Warhol-esque cover though. Maybe that could've been the back cover.

 

[U2DMfan]

U2 were gonna call it Godzilla until they changed to POP

I think Godzilla would have been a good title.

 

[Zoots]

U2 were gonna call it Godzilla until they changed to POP

I think Godzilla would have been a good title.

Oh no, there goes Tokyo.... Go go godzilla!

 

[LemonMelon]

This baffles me.

Why? On one hand we have U2 completely disowning Zooropa & Pop on this current tour. Not playing one song on the first leg, and with none in sight (exluding one line of Miami).

Yet on the other hand they just want to rerecord it. It's perfectly natural for all bands/musicians to have songs/albums they've released which sit uneasy with them. It's fine. But move on, seriously. They've had 3 bites at this thing. First the album, then the singles, then the Best Of 1990-2000. There's only so many times you can rearrange those deckchairs...

Mind you if they redid Pop, I would buy it in a second.

Contradiction Is Balance...

Nicely said and I agree. I would love for U2 to make another Pop-like album(and I know they could do it) and I wouldn't even mind too much if they redid Pop actually!

I think the best thing would be to make a Pop-like album, or Pop 2 if you will, and then release new remixes of Pop songs on the Pop 2 singles.

 

[namkcuR]

It should have been called 'Wake Up Dead Man'. The theme of the whole record is the very bitter and cynical questioning of faith and life, and no song on the record embodies that more than WUDM. Keep the same artwork.