MEN OF COURAGE.

[Achtung Bubba]

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

-- Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 09-21-2001).]

 

[Achtung Bubba]

It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us... that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.

-- Abraham Lincoln, November 19, 1863

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that if the British Empire and Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was their finest hour."

-- Winston Churchill, June 18, 1940

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Our nation, this generation, will lift the dark threat of violence from our people and our future. We will rally the world to this cause by our efforts, by our courage. We will not tire, we will not falter and we will not fail.

-- George W. Bush, September 20, 2001

 

[Achtung_Bebe]

"One man with courage makes it a majority." -Andrew Jackson

 

[U2ME3]

Where's FDR?

Also, I never thought I'd see GW associated with these men. Hope he meets the challenge.

Thanks for the post Bubba.

Paul

 

[Sledgehammer]

Too much patriotism.

Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind.

JFK

 

[Achtung_Bebe]

Originally posted by Sledgehammer:
Too much patriotism.

I'm getting tired of comments such as this one.

Since when is it a crime to be patriotic? You can be patriotic while being diverse at the same time, ya know.

 

[Sledgehammer]

The point is that if you're so patriotic you're almost blinded. You don't see both sides of the problem. You can't be skeptical. And you become dangerous.
War is not a good thing. It's not the solution, anyway.

 

[Achtung_Bebe]

Not necessarily, you can be patriotic and also see things clearly. By being patriotic you are caring for your country--caring for your country and the means by which you care for your country are two different things. War may be a logical answer to some and not to others. I'm sure we can all agree that something has to be done, and yes the US can stand up for its well-being.

 

[Sledgehammer]

Originally posted by Achtung_Bebe:
I'm sure we can all agree that something has to be done, and yes the US can stand up for its well-being.

Somethings HAS to be done, of course. But I guess it will have to do more with Intelligence. Not with bombing miserable people who will die soon anyway from starvation.

 

[Sledgehammer]

Face it. Bush was just looking for a good excuse for war. He doesn't need a particular anemy. Bin Laden is still just a suspect. But he must convince the American people that evertyhing's under control again. America is still the most powerful nation in the worl. It's all about psychology.
But it's not fair. For the victims, you know...

 

[Dancing Barefoot]

Has this topic been discussed to the fullest. If you want to continue, please continue in the Free Your Mind forum. This thread deals with courageous men who stood tall in the face of adversity. Let's leave it to that.

 

[Achtung_Bebe]

Originally posted by Sledgehammer:

But I guess it will have to do more with Intelligence. Not with bombing miserable people who will die soon anyway from starvation.

Well excellent, because I'm fairly certain that many minds are going into the next move which is to be made--and I doubt the country is being run by blood-thirsty maniacs who get a thrill out of loading up their guns.

What option is there, other than one that applies force? I believe I speak for the majority when I say that the concern now is that the targets may be properly set...

 

[Sledgehammer]

sorry! double post.

[This message has been edited by Sledgehammer (edited 09-21-2001).]

 

[melon]

To go with Bebe's sentiments, I agree with the way she speaks about patriotism. I'm a patriot in a way, but I refuse to wave a flag, sing "God Bless America," and support this war. And I still criticize Dubya and the actions of his immediate predecessors. But I wouldn't be making such a fuss if I didn't care. I guess my idea of a utopia is different than the conservatives...

Melon

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How long must we sing this song?!

 

[z edge]

Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:

Our nation, this generation, will lift the dark threat of violence from our people and our future. We will rally the world to this cause by our efforts, by our courage. We will not tire, we will not falter and we will not fail.

-- George W. Bush, September 20, 2001

I am glad to see this one in here because he seems to be stronger than anyone else gave him credit for, and a lot smarter too. We shall see, but if you all remember the threads in here were killing him a few months ago. So yes, its about time his picture appeared in a thread like this.

 

[melon]

I still don't like Dubya. You can't trick me into thinking otherwise...

Melon

------------------
How long must we sing this song?!

 

[z edge]

Originally posted by melon:
I still don't like Dubya. You can't trick me into thinking otherwise...

Melon

Damnit, I'm gonna have to resort to witchcraft and/or voodoo

*conjures up spell for Melon*

 

[Thermopylae]

Originally posted by Sledgehammer:
The point is that if you're so patriotic you're almost blinded. You don't see both sides of the problem. You can't be skeptical. And you become dangerous.
War is not a good thing. It's not the solution, anyway.

It is men/women like you that keep this horrible cycle going. Too cowardly to actually, for once...take a side. What "other side" of the problem are we missing?

As for Achtung Bubba, I have been watching your posts here for the last week and a half. I would like to thank you for taking the lead on rallying this small bunch to the side of liberty.

 

[diamondbruno9]

http://members.aol.com/diamondbruno9/ ------ha HA--- dB9

------------------
"..it's about breaking barriers, transcending boundries and conquering great divides"-Bono 1987

---------
An open letter to Bono from myself www.arizonaautoweb.com/bono/



[This message has been edited by diamondbruno9 (edited 09-22-2001).]

 

[Rono]

Originally posted by Sledgehammer:
Too much patriotism.

Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind.

JFK

This is the one who could make the difference
in the past. The world would be a nice place
to be in ( related to peace )

------------------
I can`t change the world but i can
change the world in me.

Read you, Rono.

 

[Bacchus]

"carefull, we wouldn't want to learn from this..."

 

[Bacchus]

OOPS!

 

[Sledgehammer]

Originally posted by Thermopylae:
It is men/women like you that keep this horrible cycle going. Too cowardly to actually, for once...take a side. What "other side" of the problem are we missing?

Take a side?!? It's not a football game. This is a false delema. I couldn't do that, due to my humanistic ideals.

As for the "other side" of the problem:
The therapy of an illness should be holistic. I mean if you're sick, you get a drug and you're ok. That's what the American goverment will do. The drug here is called war. But it would be wiser to consider the causes, not only the symptoms of the illness. The root of the problem. What are the deeper reasons that make one sick?

Why do you think these terrible fanatics did that? What have made a lot of people all over the (not only third) world hate America? Maybe they have their reasons. Perhaps, it has to do with the American politics and the foreign policies all over the years. Call it "humanitarian" and get ready to bomb.

And who helped these people to develop such a fanatic behavior? Who helped these groups with weapons, army and informations in the cold war against Russia? Who trained them? Who failed to protect the American people last week? Same answer here: CIA, FBI.

Please don't get me wrong, I don't support anybody here, I'm not looking for an alibi for the terrible attacks. It's just that I don't think that I'm the only one who keeps this horrible cycle going. It's all of us. It's America.



------------------
"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." JFK

 

[z edge]

Originally posted by Sledgehammer:
Take a side?!? It's not a football game. This is a false delema. I couldn't do that, due to my humanistic ideals.

As for the "other side" of the problem:
The therapy of an illness should be holistic. I mean if you're sick, you get a drug and you're ok. That's what the American goverment will do. The drug here is called war. But it would be wiser to consider the causes, not only the symptoms of the illness. The root of the problem. What are the deeper reasons that make one sick?

Why do you think these terrible fanatics did that? What have made a lot of people all over the (not only third) world hate America? Maybe they have their reasons. Perhaps, it has to do with the American politics and the foreign policies all over the years. Call it "humanitarian" and get ready to bomb.

And who helped these people to develop such a fanatic behavior? Who helped these groups with weapons, army and informations in the cold war against Russia? Who trained them? Who failed to protect the American people last week? Same answer here: CIA, FBI.

Please don't get me wrong, I don't support anybody here, I'm not looking for an alibi for the terrible attacks. It's just that I don't think that I'm the only one who keeps this horrible cycle going. It's all of us. It's America.

Okay you are speaking out of your ass here. Anytime we have gone on a humanitarian mission and it turned hostile is because of them and not us. Remember Somalia, we went over there to help them and they attacked US. We had to seek permission to return fire and protect ourselves under heavy fire. And then they would hide behind their women and children because they knew we wouldn't return fire. And when we took on causualties, they dragged our fallen heroes through the streets naked while celebrating.

The people who hate us are obviously so jealous of our freedom that they say they care nothing about. Think anbout it, if they really don't agree with our way of life, why not just ignore it. Yet more and more Muslims come over to our country, why? Because we are such a bad country? NO.

 

[doctorwho]

Originally posted by melon:
I still don't like Dubya. You can't trick me into thinking otherwise...

Melon

I agree with you Melon. One good speech does not a leader make. Bush has yet to truly do anything - the months to come is where he should be judged, not now.

At present, when I saw his picture up there with those great men, I nearly gagged. Let's not be hasty. Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan were outstanding speakers and their enormous charisma is what carried them through their respective Presidencies. However, just about everyone thinks that one or both of them hurt this country far more than helped. So don't let a good speech fool ya.

 

[melon]

Originally posted by doctorwho:
Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan were outstanding speakers and their enormous charisma is what carried them through their respective Presidencies. However, just about everyone thinks that one or both of them hurt this country far more than helped. So don't let a good speech fool ya.

You are right on that. To me, Reagan is the worst president we ever had (well, Dubya has three more years, so he might usurp that title), and he more than contributed to much of the strife we are currently undertaking both domestically and internationally. But I digress...

Melon

------------------
How long must we sing this song?!

 

[z edge]

Melon,
I am sending the wicked witch of the west over to your house and she is gonna turn you into a giant marshmallow

and

Doctorwho,
I am having a little doll made up in your image, You better behave

um-voodoo doll, that is!

[This message has been edited by z edge (edited 09-23-2001).]