Letter on Afghanistan

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Skeksis

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The following letter may provide some insight into what we are facing and just how careful we need to be. Personally, I am encouraged by Bush's message that the American people need to be patient, indicating that cooler heads will prevail, and also that decisive force will be used. I am proud to see the unity that americans and the world have demonstrated. I am very moved with our patriotism. I am discouraged, however, that Bush said this was a "crusade" for "revenge," and to see excessive jingoism pollute our minds. There is no doubt that justice must be served, and that the problem of international terrorism be dealt with, but this is not at all going to be an easy task and must be carried out with extreme care. In the end, we must also look to try and address some of the root causes of the conditions that lead to such suffering and hatred, including the severe socio-economic problems in that area of the world. The letter is as follows:

TO EVERYONE: This letter by Afghani-American Tamin Ansary Was passed along by another friend, Gary T. PLEASE DO SHARE IT!. Susie Lee, LPN.
Dear Friends:
The following was sent to me by my friend Tamim Ansary. Tamim is an Afghani-American writer.
He is also one of the most brilliant people I know in this life.
When he writes, I read. When he talks, I listen.
Here is his take on Afghanistan and the whole mess we are in. -Gary T.
Dear Gary and whoever else is on this email thread:

I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage.
What Else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done."

And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there.
So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.


I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden.
There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York.
I agree that something must be done about those monsters.


But the Taliban and Bin Laden are not Afghanistan.
They're not even the government of Afghanistan.
The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997.
Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan.
When you think Taliban, think Nazis.
When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler.
And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps."
It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity.
They were the first victims of the perpetrators.
They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country.


Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban?
The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering.
A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food.
There are millions of widows.
And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves.
The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets.
These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.

We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done.
The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done.
Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that.

New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely.
In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide.
Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing.
Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time

So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling.
The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand.
What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout.
It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely.
The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.

And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program.
That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west.
It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view.
He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else?

Tamim Ansary
 
Thanks for the letter.

One thing confuses me though. The author says that to get to Afghanistan, we'd have to conquer Pakistan. But I thought that Pakistan was starting to cooperate with us, no?
 
At the time this was written, Pakistan probably did not agree to cooperating with the U.S. However, they have since agreed, and now we don't have to conquer Pakistan to get to Afghanistan, which is landlocked.

Otherwise, it is a very well-written article, which, unfortunately, is true down to the last letter.

Melon

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How long must we sing this song?!
 
Thats exactly how I feel. This could easily turn so much bigger....

Yes, Pakistan have since agreed, but that is the Pakistani government, NOT the people, who want US military nowhere near them. Obviously that will be very hard for the government to deal with.

Also remember that, and I hate to bunch people together, but Islamic people, regardless of what their governments do and whether they agree or disagree with it, have a huge feeling of solidarity with each other.
The countries that jumped behind the USA the fastest this week were the countries like the UK and Australia. Our people feel we are the same as your people. Forget governments, forget alliances, forget 'why' it happened and 'why' it happened to the US... The pictures of innocent civilians running away from a collapsing tower are what get to us, because we are identical people living identical lives, regardless of anything else that ties our countries together. The 'average' civilian Joe from New York could easily be the average civilian Joe from London or Sydney.
And you can bet that as soon as images of bombs raining down on Afghanistan start flooding CNN, and civilian casualties start mounting, regardless of where they are and what they may stand for and 'why' they are being bombed, millions of people from lots of nations in the region are going to feel that same solidarity that is being displayed by the west. "Those people are me."
Governments will feel the pressure coming from the people vs the pressure coming from the US/Rest of the world. That is where the trouble is going to really start.
 
This is dead on regarding a full-scale attack on Afghanistan. Fairly pointless. We'll just kick around some rubble with our carpet bombing. Obviously Bin Laden and the Taliban need to be eliminated, but that's a special ops mission. I would expect some combination of green berets, black berets, green seals, RECON, and Delta going in there, and probably the Mossad as well. People may or may not side with Israel, but in a situation like this the Mossad can get it done. It will probably get ugly, but that's the nature of these things. We can't blow up entire mountain ranges after all.

But I would think civilian casualties in Afghanistan will be limited because of all this...besides, many of them are fleeing to the border.

Iraq, now that's something else altogther.
 
Originally posted by TylerDurden:
Yes, Pakistan have since agreed, but that is the Pakistani government, NOT the people, who want US military nowhere near them. Obviously that will be very hard for the government to deal with.

This is true. I read the last few days that there is a very large population in Pakistan that is of the same ethnic origin as the Taliban. They also feel sympathetic to the Taliban. They have quite a presence in the army. And Pakistan has probably nuclear weapons (they did some nuclear tests last year).

Of course, the Pakistan government pledged support to the USA. How couldn't they. If they had refused the wrath would also hit Pakistan. But by pledging support internal turmoil has increased. And Pakistan wasn't a very stable country to begin with.

I'm still hoping for the best, but I'm fearing the worst.

Marty




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People criticize me but I know it's not the end
I try to kick the truth, not just to make friends

Spearhead - People In Tha Middle
 
Good point Tyler. And thread Skeksis.

Unfortunately America is damned if they do and damned if they dont. The idea of bombing Afghanistan is sickening to everyone. No one wants more innocent lives lost, and some dont want more bloodshed full stop. I am one of those. But what else can the United States possibly do? Rebuild their cities and just close their eyes and pray? Most people can differentiate between the Taliban and the average peace loving folk of Afghanistan. I seriously doubt Bush will forgo these ppl for the sake of the real enemy. But no guarantees can be made. It will be war, and people will die. And it will be from both sides. I just hope that the Taliban realise they have buckleys of defeating America and their allies. When not thinking about the horrendous loss America face, I am still stunned by the blatant stupidity of anyone who thinks they can take on America, and possibly win?
 
This is exactly the problem the Bush administration faces. However, I think some people have the wrong impression about aerial bombing. It is no longer B-52s dropping their payloads at targets they can't even see. The US will most likely mount surgical air strikes against Taliban interests. We effectively did this at the start of the Gulf War.

The comment about whether "we have the belly to do what needs to be done" is misinterpreted. I believe that whomever said that was refering to the cost of this operation in US lives- The American population usually loses tolerance of military actions after seeing its young men returning in body bags. (see Vietnam)



[This message has been edited by StarsnStripes (edited 09-18-2001).]
 
Originally posted by Angela Harlem:
I am still stunned by the blatant stupidity of anyone who thinks they can take on America, and possibly win?

I know, this guy is sitting in his cave somewhere, probably watching CNN, checking on the net etc and seeing the world lining up against him, the US V.Pres asking for his head on a platter etc and the crazy thing is he's probably not thinking "Umm...whoops...shit", but "Sweet, bring it on."

Remember that if the US goes all out in their attack they are kinda playing right into his hands. One of his main goals is to unite all Muslim nations in a war against the US, and he could get that wish.

"Not the sharpest tool in the shed."
 
I read a book about Mossad recently. Those are some scary fuckers. You'd better believe they'd get the job done.

They've had 40 years (terrorism did not begin to affect Israel in any big way until 1965, or so) to wipe out the terror networks in the countries that border them and the West Bank + Gaza Strip. I see they have made zero progress.

You can throw all the bombs and agents at the terrorists you want. The network will survive and you will succeed in stopping a handful of terrorists while being the very thing that motivates more people in the region to become terrorists.

It's a lose-lose situation.

Furthermore, Bush has painted himself into a corner with his rhetoric. He has been operating under the assumption that the Taliban will not give up OBL. On the off chance they do, Bush will find himself in one tough spot with no ability to direct the national rage against any particular country. Bombing Afganastan after they give up OBL would be insane and effectively destroy any chance we might have to work with any other Muslim nations. Who in their right mind would give up someone like OBL with all that entails, knowing the U.S might still bomb the fuck out of them?.

Getting OBL himself, would accomplish very little. His terrorist network would still be intact along with his cash reserves and we would get what? A person to direct our anger against? Cool, but what happens when that isn't fun anymore? When the remainder of his network (many of whom have probably cleared out of Afganastan) start bombing, hijacking, etc?

We don't want the Taliban to give up Bin Laden. We want to go into Afganastan and try to destroy the terrorist network.

Emphasis on the word try.

[This message has been edited by DoctorGonzo (edited 09-18-2001).]
 
Originally posted by TylerDurden:
I know, this guy is sitting in his cave somewhere, probably watching CNN, checking on the net etc and seeing the world lining up against him, the US V.Pres asking for his head on a platter etc and the crazy thing is he's probably not thinking "Umm...whoops...shit", but "Sweet, bring it on."

In a paper last weekend I read that Bin Laden had also made some comments about fighting the USA. Afghanistan has already held off 2 superpowers and now he wants to fight a third, the USA. The two other superpowers I'm talking about are Great Britain in the 1850's and the Sovjet Union in the 1980's. Both countries tried to conquer Afghanistan and both failed miserably.

So I hope the US will not try to invade Afghanistan and conquer everything or they'll get a second Vietnam.

Marty


------------------
People criticize me but I know it's not the end
I try to kick the truth, not just to make friends

Spearhead - People In Tha Middle
 
I agree with the letter, carpet bombing will solve nothing.

The US will most likely drop thousands of troops and equipment from large aircraft into Afghanistan, and set up their own airstrip (s) and bases in country. They are trained to do this in as little as several days. Then the buildup will occur from within. Special forces will then operate from the bases on "seek and destroy" missions to suspected terrorist camps, usually at night.
All they need from pakistan is permission to overfly the country at 40,000 feet.
This "war" will not be as high profile as the gulf war, without the daily press briefings and mission reports. There won't be any instant satisfaction of defeating the enemy, but there will be results.
 
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