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Originally posted by U2Kitten:
Horseshit Melon! ANYBODY can go to cnn.com and cast their vote on the title page, I just did! I voted YES and yes is leading by 86% to 14%. Maybe some of you never-never land types would like to go there and screw with the stats just for fun? Either way, you can shut up and stop bitching about it only being old white guys voting. Shit, I don't even know any old white guys who can even work a computer! Your stereotyping stinks!

Oh God. I have studied telecommunication for over four years. I have studied demographics regarding television, newspapers, magazines, and, yes, the internet. What are "demographics"? Generalizations! When I say that CNN is primarily watched by wealthier white conservatives around age 60, that's what the demographics have come up with. OBVIOUSLY there are exceptions, as I watch it too.

The internet, like it or not, is NOT accessible to the lower classes. I didn't even get it until I got into college, and I wouldn't be able to afford it at home, but a state program through the universities provides it free to students attending the public universities. The "old" portion referred to televised CNN. Internet CNN is primarily occupied by the business world. I'm sure you wouldn't have even noticed that internet poll had we not been mentioning it. Obviously, though, it's a chicken-egg argument on that.

BUT there are exceptions! There always are. But all I am quoting are demographics, which are, whatever the fuck you want to label them, "generalizations" and "stereotypes."

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[This message has been edited by melon (edited 10-08-2001).]
 
Melon, that may be a great deal of who watches it, but I don't know any old white guys who can work computers. Not available to the lower classes heh? I have friends and relatives who live in trailers and very bad neighborhoods who have more than one computer! By the same token, I know a doctor and an engineer who won't buy one for their kids! People have their priorities in different places. This is real life-I KNOW these people! Problem is, when you only get your info from studying what someone wrote in a story you run the risk of being influenced by their personal views and biases more than the actual truth. I have also noticed that people tend to only 'study' writings they agree with and disregard the rest as 'bullshit,' 'garbage' etc. This goes for both sides of the political spectrum.

BTW, the offer still stands. Break the old white guy conspiracy and go to cnn.com and vote now! Maybe you and your buddies can swing it in your favor, like the way we played with MTVs stats that time! Talk about accurate demographics!

[This message has been edited by U2Kitten (edited 10-08-2001).]
 
Originally posted by melon:
Oh God. I have studied telecommunication for over four years. I have studied demographics regarding television, newspapers, magazines, and, yes, the internet. What are "demographics"? Generalizations! When I say that CNN is primarily watched by wealthier white conservatives around age 60, that's what the demographics have come up with. OBVIOUSLY there are exceptions, as I watch it too.

The internet, like it or not, is NOT accessible to the lower classes. I didn't even get it until I got into college, and I wouldn't be able to afford it at home, but a state program through the universities provides it free to students attending the public universities. The "old" portion referred to televised CNN. Internet CNN is primarily occupied by the business world. I'm sure you wouldn't have even noticed that internet poll had we not been mentioning it. Obviously, though, it's a chicken-egg argument on that.

BUT there are exceptions! There always are. But all I am quoting are demographics, which are, whatever the fuck you want to label them, "generalizations" and "stereotypes."

Melon


So, do you think non-wealthy and minority folks don't believe in protecting democracy?

CK
 
Oh for f***** sake, all this bitterness and words being said that poisons ones bloody mind!!!!!!
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For lordy sake lets just hold hands and hug each other at this point!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well.....


.......ok........

......if u lot wont, I will!!!!!!

*maddie grabs everyone by the balls and breasts for a BIG HUG!!!!*

(((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))


Im a dancer, not a fighter!!!
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smile.gif
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Originally posted by U2Kitten:
Break the old white guy conspiracy and go to cnn.com and vote now!

Let me put it this way:

Internet CNN is not populated by old white guys. Televised CNN is. I've stated that how many times now???!!! Internet CNN is populated by white businessmen / businesswomen. You may not like demographics, but it influences how news is reported and presented. You are not going to get criticism of the conflict at all on a station that conceives its demographic to be conservative. On the flip side, if CNN's demographic happened to be liberal, you would more likely get a different take on the issue. You can fight these demographics all you want, and I, myself, am not part of their demographic, but, whether, I or you or anyone likes it, this is reality. This is all my point is. I'm proud that you are fighting the demographic and that you have proven huge holes in them, but it is because of these demographics that news is filtered to us the way it is. In an ideal world, everything would be objective, but it will never be that way. Ever.

Do you understand what I'm saying now?

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[This message has been edited by melon (edited 10-08-2001).]
 
No, because CNN is very left wing and biased in that direction! For goodness sakes, it's run by Ted Turner, one of the biggest liberals in the world, even if he is an old white guy!
 
Originally posted by U2Kitten:
No, because CNN is very left wing and biased in that direction! For goodness sakes, it's run by Ted Turner, one of the biggest liberals in the world, even if he is an old white guy!

Turner doesn't run CNN anymore.

CK

------------------
I will give you 2 GA's for 2 GC's!! Email or IM me or respond to the multiple threads I have concerning this. Help a desparate man out!!
Email:U2_Kennedy@yahoo.com
AIM: ckennedy77
 
Originally posted by TheU2:
So, do you think non-wealthy and minority folks don't believe in protecting democracy?

"Protecting democracy." Is that the new catch phrase now? Why don't you just tell it like it is: Retaliation against the WTC / Pentagon attacks. Let people decide for themselves whether they think it is "protecting democracy" or not, while stating the nature of the conflict.

And, yes, if you read my post in my first reply to STING on the poll, I stated that I did believe the public was behind this. However, my point is that these people are not likely to be represented on an internet poll. If this was a random phone poll, then it would be different.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
 
Originally posted by U2Kitten:
No, because CNN is very left wing and biased in that direction! For goodness sakes, it's run by Ted Turner, one of the biggest liberals in the world, even if he is an old white guy!

The ownership of a station does not determine viewership. News, in general, is viewed on television by an older, inherently more conservative crowd now. The demographic for U.S. network news is about 60 too. Perhaps that's why we see "Depends" commercials during the news?

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[This message has been edited by melon (edited 10-08-2001).]
 
Melon-
Must you continue in this 'predictable' fashion?
Its apparent you're a Bush hater.
And just because you have a higher I.Q. than most assembled here,doesn't mean your opinion is correct.
Melon, take a look around.The ppl in this country oppose your views re this issue, and the countrys of the world in general are against you on this.
Is it beneath you to say 1 nice thing about this administration? I challenge you that question.
Futhurmore the very values of 'tolerance' you espouse so highly appear to be falling short unless they are one-way -Melon's way.

Thank You.

Sincerely-
Diamond

PS -Notice I lit a candle for you as I am a man of peace.

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"..it's about breaking barriers, transcending boundries and conquering great divides"-Bono 1987

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An open letter to Bono from myself www.arizonaautoweb.com/bono/
 
Originally posted by melon:
Oh God. I have studied telecommunication for over four years. I have studied demographics regarding television, newspapers, magazines, and, yes, the internet.
Melon, I have a question to ask you. Don't get mad, because it's an honest question. You say you've studied telecommunication for over four years, and you've also said you've studied religion for years. There are many other areas you cl;aim to be an expert in. At your young age, (I believe between 19 and 21 years old, right?), how have you managed to study all these things as much as you say you have? I just don't get it.
 
Originally posted by melon:
"Protecting democracy." Is that the new catch phrase now? Why don't you just tell it like it is: Retaliation against the WTC / Pentagon attacks. Let people decide for themselves whether they think it is "protecting democracy" or not, while stating the nature of the conflict.

And, yes, if you read my post in my first reply to STING on the poll, I stated that I did believe the public was behind this. However, my point is that these people are not likely to be represented on an internet poll. If this was a random phone poll, then it would be different.

Melon


Um, its not retaliation. Any retaliation is wrong. I will direct you to my previous post that you will find on page 2
of this thread.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

"Legitimate defense can not only be a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of other. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm."

Put simply, that means:, "What parent amoung you wouldn't be justified in doing whatever it took to protect your children from an unjust aggressor?"



CK



------------------
I will give you 2 GA's for 2 GC's!! Email or IM me or respond to the multiple threads I have concerning this. Help a desparate man out!!
Email:U2_Kennedy@yahoo.com
AIM: ckennedy77
 
Goddamn. I am not even talking about the war anymore! I am speaking media demographics. Yes, I am very critical of Bush. I was a less critical of Clinton, but still critical. You should never give blind faith to any of your public officials, regardless of party or ideology.

I am sorry if I'm getting a bit angry here. I'm frustrated for being distorted over quoting demographic facts. I'm telling you to be skeptical of your media. How would you be any different than the Soviets who bought hook line and sinker into their media propaganda? But that's right. The U.S. media would never lie to you. Your government would never leave out facts. Right?

During the Gulf War, the patriot missiles were a failure against scud missiles. They, contrary to CNN tripe during that time in 1991, did not blow up these missiles. They only bumped them (hence the appearance of an explosion) only for the scud to break apart and explode on the ground. This is why Reagan, Bush I, and now Bush II have been pushing so heavily for a missile defense shield. I'm opposed to the space-based portion, but we do need to develop a missile that will effectively do what the patriot failed to do.

And you obviously were not there when I was chatting with Bubba and I stated that I was pleased at how the administration was handling this situation so far. Bush gave plenty of warning to the Taliban, and it was obvious they were not going to negotiate reasonably. I cannot help if everyone is not there to read every one of my words at all times. I am not some archetypical liberal on this situation.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
 
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
Melon, I have a question to ask you. Don't get mad, because it's an honest question. You say you've studied telecommunication for over four years, and you've also said you've studied religion for years. There are many other areas you cl;aim to be an expert in. At your young age, (I believe between 19 and 21 years old, right?), how have you managed to study all these things as much as you say you have? I just don't get it.

Telecommunication is my major. It's very general, so I have studied video, audio, and web production in it, along with media criticism of all of those areas.

Catholicism is my religion. I've studied the hell out of it, because I don't believe in blind faith. This is more of a side interest for me.

And if you remember a post I wrote a long time ago, I wrote that intellect is my "opiate" to get away from what bothers me in my personal life. The more depressed I was, the more I learned more. However, things are starting to change, but I cannot erase my knowledge, now can I?

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[This message has been edited by melon (edited 10-08-2001).]
 
Originally posted by melon:
Goddamn. I am not even talking about the war anymore! I am speaking media demographics. Yes, I am very critical of Bush. I was a less critical of Clinton, but still critical. You should never give blind faith to any of your public officials, regardless of party or ideology.

I am sorry if I'm getting a bit angry here. I'm frustrated for being distorted over quoting demographic facts. I'm telling you to be skeptical of your media. How would you be any different than the Soviets who bought hook line and sinker into their media propaganda? But that's right. The U.S. media would never lie to you. Your government would never leave out facts. Right?

During the Gulf War, the patriot missiles were a failure against scud missiles. They, contrary to CNN tripe during that time in 1991, did not blow up these missiles. They only bumped them (hence the appearance of an explosion) only for the scud to break apart and explode on the ground. This is why Reagan, Bush I, and now Bush II have been pushing so heavily for a missile defense shield. I'm opposed to the space-based portion, but we do need to develop a missile that will effectively do what the patriot failed to do.

And you obviously were not there when I was chatting with Bubba and I stated that I was pleased at how the administration was handling this situation so far. Bush gave plenty of warning to the Taliban, and it was obvious they were not going to negotiate reasonably. I cannot help if everyone is not there to read every one of my words at all times. I am not some archetypical liberal on this situation.

Melon


OK, end of discussion

CK



------------------
I will give you 2 GA's for 2 GC's!! Email or IM me or respond to the multiple threads I have concerning this. Help a desparate man out!!
Email:U2_Kennedy@yahoo.com
AIM: ckennedy77
 
Anyway, I apologize if I enraged anyone here or if, for any reason, I got personal. I really didn't mean any of it, so I really hope that none of you would hold it against me.

Now I know why I have strayed away from these topics the last couple weeks. It only leads to bitterness and me explaining the shit out of my unconventional views.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
 
Originally posted by melon:
Anyway, I apologize if I enraged anyone here or if, for any reason, I got personal. I really didn't mean any of it, so I really hope that none of you would hold it against me.

Now I know why I have strayed away from these topics the last couple weeks. It only leads to bitterness and me explaining the shit out of my unconventional views.

Melon


Hey don't worry about it and don't apologize. Healthy discussion is good. That's what we're all about.

CK


------------------
I will give you 2 GA's for 2 GC's!! Email or IM me or respond to the multiple threads I have concerning this. Help a desparate man out!!
Email:U2_Kennedy@yahoo.com
AIM: ckennedy77
 
Originally posted by Johnny Swallow:
*Is too lazy to read 5 pages*

B]


Just read my posts. They are the best
wink.gif


CK



------------------
I will give you 2 GA's for 2 GC's!! Email or IM me or respond to the multiple threads I have concerning this. Help a desparate man out!!
Email:U2_Kennedy@yahoo.com
AIM: ckennedy77
 
It's been only ten hours or so since I've visited this thread, and I'd like to weigh in on the most recent comments.

Martha: my only point was that SOME U.S. actions were done out of humanitarian reasons. The fact that you agree means you concede my point -- and it makes you just as "naive" as me.

In fact, I am not only aware that many U.S. military actions are in the support of our economic interests, I SUPPORT THE NOTION. America cannot fight every war for every oppressed people, but we certainly have the right to fight those wars that are in our own best interest, and we should fight those wars.

Personally, I think you're naive if you believe that we should NOT protect our own economic interests.


Concening the polls: these polls are scientific polls, statistically accurate to a few percentage points. They represent the American people at large, not the CNN viewers.

As an aside, CNN viewers are not homogeneously "white, wealthy, old and conservative". I find the statement to reek of ignorance and probably bigotry -- not to mention the fact the CNN is a liberal news service, especially compared to FoxNews. CNN has a LIBERAL slant. If conservatives watch CNN, what do the liberals watch?

Or when you assert that "older people watch TV, older people are conservative, ergo the CNN demographic is conservative" are you actually suggesting liberals don't watch the TV news as much? I don't buy that. I have to think that any concerned American is watching some form of TV news, and if liberal Americans aren't watching CNN, they're watching ABC, NBC, or CBS. The coverage has always been very, very similar.

It seems to me that the liberal news media AND the conservative news media agree with the attacks, as do the Republicans and the Democrats. I don't take this to mean that they're all conservative -- I take it to mean that they all see the need for these attacks.

At any rate, Sledgehammer, I'm DAMN PROUD that America has rallied behind this cause. I am overjoyed that the American people on the whole understand that our cause is just, our enemies are evil, this military response is necessary, and decisiveness is key to achieving victory.

Why shouldn't we be proud?

Achtung Bubba
 
Bitch to Nielsen then if you don't like my demographics. Let's see if they'll change them for you.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
 
Come on guys!!! Quit fighting!!! It's not doing anyone any good to jump on anyone. Can we please play nice? Please???

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"What's with all the glitter? I thought you didn't like our mirrorball lemon and shit. Well it's too late to change your mind now." -- Bono, Indianapolis, May 10, 2001

When you stop taking chances, you'll stay where you sit, you won't live any longer, but it'll feel like it --- Summer Rain

clarityat3am@hotmail.com
 
Originally posted by TheU2:
Healthy discussion is good.



Not this stupid bullshit..

CK



------------------
I will give you 2 GA's for 2 GC's!! Email or IM me or respond to the multiple threads I have concerning this. Help a desparate man out!!
Email:U2_Kennedy@yahoo.com
AIM: ckennedy77
 
Originally posted by melon:

This is not an "eye for an eye" currently. As much as I've criticized the Bush administration, this has been handled well, so far. They are currently attacking strategic locations, not murdering civilians, and with minimal ground force usage. As long as it stays this way, I will remain placated.


To melon's benefit, that was from his first post in this thread, and I recall him posting a thread on Septemebr 11 titled "This Transcends Politics." I seldom agree with melon on poiltical issues, but there is no need to villify him over some CNN poll. I am at least glad to see his positive comments on the handling of the situation to date.

~U2Alabama
 
Originally posted by U2Bama:
To melon's benefit, that was from his first post in this thread, and I recall him posting a thread on Septemebr 11 titled "This Transcends Politics." I seldom agree with melon on poiltical issues, but there is no need to villify him over some CNN poll. I am at least glad to see his positive comments on the handling of the situation to date.

~U2Alabama


Word

CK



------------------
I will give you 2 GA's for 2 GC's!! Email or IM me or respond to the multiple threads I have concerning this. Help a desparate man out!!
Email:U2_Kennedy@yahoo.com
AIM: ckennedy77
 
Okay...I'm about to defend melon here. <shudder>
smile.gif


When Melon talks about internet polls he is absolutely right...there is no debate here. When it comes to major sites these polls often have a slight to major conservative slant. To paraphrase, "If the election had followed internet polling trends Bush would have won by 20 points." That's fairly accurate...he was routing Gore in the vast majority of internet polls. The "digital divide" is being closed, but the gap is still there.

As for CNN television, while melon's demographics are correct--or close enough not to quibble--the news they present usually has a liberal slant to it. It isn't as bad as some of the networks though, or as bad as FOXNews going the other way. In general, news is slanted to the left. An interesting aspect with regard to print is that more columnists are liberal (hence the overall slant) but a good deal of editors are conservative which results in some papers giving their endorsement to the Republican candidate even when their coverage would seem to present almost solely the opposing view. Radio is the medium that tends to lean more to the right.

Melon's statements here aren't wholly wrong. I too am a telecommunication major so I can at least back up that his demos are fairly accurate. I don't agree with him on many things politically, but this was certainly nothing to chastise melon over.
 
Originally posted by MSU2mike:
I too am a telecommunication major so I can at least back up that his demos are fairly accurate.

How interesting. I wonder if we've met, and never even known it?

Melon



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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
 
Originally posted by melon:
How interesting. I wonder if we've met, and never even known it?

Melon


I think it's unlikely as you're at least a year ahead of me (I think).

I've taken 100, 200, 201, 240, 310, and currently 343 & 463. And on the off chance that you were in any of that first group (excluding 240) it wouldn't have mattered as I spent the majority of those classes gouging my eyeballs with my pen.
smile.gif


But I have found myself spending more time at the CAS building this year and I'm at the VU very often (fiancee works there).
 
Melon is probably right about the demographics of those that watch CNN, and no online POLL can be trusted. Just think what we do here to Billboards online Polls when U2 is involved.
But this was USA TODAY/TIME/CNN/GALLOP Poll! I don't believe it was an online poll, and was done by those that have expertise in producing a Scientific Poll that would acurately gage Public Opinion.
Every Poll I have read though has support for the strike in Afghanistan at around 90%. If your like Ross Perot and don't believe in any polls at all, oh well.
Sorry SLEDGEHAMMER, But I support the strike on Afghanistan as well as the Men and Women Of the US Military and am very proud of what they are doing to defend freedom and bring those responsible for terrorism to Justice!
 
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