I Still Wonder Why, During The Elevation Tour..

[Gina Marie]

Why some people cheered , seemingly as a positive reaction, during/after the Charlton Heston segment, when he says.'There are no good guns. There are no bad guns. Any gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a good person is no threat to anybody, except bad people' Every show I went to where this was shown, there seemed to be quite a large segment of the crowd clapping/cheering for this.

This isn't intended to be a debate on gun control. It just seems so strange to me, that some people didn't seem to understand the irony in the juxtaposition between that and Bullet, and all the clips of Columbine and the other war and gun violence that were shown.

 

[Tabby]

Oh I think most of them DID understand! I was on wire at the time, and there were a lot of 'gunfights' going on. Some people said they cheered Heston in a mild protest of U2's seemingly anti-gun statement. I saw and heard this reaction at the two shows I went to, and I also heard boos which I wondered, are they for Heston or for U2 for making the statement? I just stood there glued to the screen staring, and didn't say anything. I just watched and listened, that's what the band probably wanted us to do.

-clears self of all blame- that's just what I heard, not what I think, I don't do gun control battles!

 

[elevatedmole]

Funny.. this has been something I've wondered a lot.. I could never tell what side people were on.

 

[oliveu2cm]

I think most fans at the shows are casual fans (as opposed to the ocd fans like us here ) and they didn't know what was going on and really only wanted to hear music. Like Tabby I shut up when it happened and just watched, not knowing what was going on but wanting to learn.

but if you get a mix of impatient, drunk, excited people who just want to hear the music- you get the cheers or the cat calling during it because they just don't 'know any better' or whatever.

same sort of thing goes for when Bono is talking about Kite, about death, and people in the crowd starting yelling his name out, yelling 'i love you' and interrupting him. or people talk / leave during the slow songs or interrupting WUDM.

but about Bullet again- i won't go into this too much but also, not everyone may have understood the message they were trying to get across.

 

[Gina Marie]

Originally posted by oliveu2cm

but about Bullet again- i won't go into this too much but also, not everyone may have understood the message they were trying to get across.

Exactly, but I'm confused about how they couldn't understand the message, whether they were ardent fans or even 'casual' ones.

For me, it was a very somber and sobering moment..

 

[oliveu2cm]

Exactly, but I'm confused about how they couldn't understand the message, whether they were ardent fans or even 'casual' ones.

For me, it was a very somber and sobering moment..

totally a somber moment.. I didn't mean that because they didn't get it they should be yelling out.

the person who i knew who didn't understand the message didn't see the little girl at the end pick up the gun, so she thought u2 were agreeing with the creed.

 

[Hewson]

My 2 cents on that is that a lot of people just cheer for the sake of cheering, and probably din't know what they were cheering for (or against) at the time.
"Like look its the guy from Planet of the Apes...yaaaay!"

 

[RS]

Why some people cheered , seemingly as a positive reaction, during/after the Charlton Heston segment, when he says.'There are no good guns. There are no bad guns. Any gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a good person is no threat to anybody, except bad people' Every show I went to where this was shown, there seemed to be quite a large segment of the crowd clapping/cheering for this.

I think people in front start cheering cause they can see the band returning to the stage. And the cheering just grows from there, so that some are cheering cause they hear that someone else is cheering.

 

[Giant Lemon]

I think a lot of people cheered just because they didn't know what to do. If they support U2's message, should they cheer (at their statement) or boo (because of Heston)? Or if they agree with Heston, should they cheer (in support of him) or boo (at U2's message)? It's all very confusing, and I think a lot of people just opted for the cheering. Plus, I think many people just wanted to get U2 back on stage, so they cheered.

 

[Bonochick]

I think a lot of people cheered just because they didn't know what to do. If they support U2's message, should they cheer (at their statement) or boo (because of Heston)? Or if they agree with Heston, should they cheer (in support of him) or boo (at U2's message)? It's all very confusing, and I think a lot of people just opted for the cheering.

Good point.

 

[verte76]

Sometimes people cheer anytime they see anything on a screen, to heck with what's actually on it.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

It is quite possible that some people agreed with Heston - even as a rabid U2 fan, I cannot entirely disagree with Charlton Heston on this one.

The video segment emphasized the point that guns are evil; to be honest, they probably are. They are designed to be lethal weapons, to inflict physical damage upon another human being.

But there is such a thing as a "necessary evil."

In Common Sense, a work that crystalized why the American colonies were declaring their independence, Thomas Paine made this widely known observation:

Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.

I believe that the gun too is a necessary evil: as long as nations attack each other, individuals assault and rob each other, and governments attempt to oppress their people, the gun will be necessary. As long as the strong seek to abuse their power, guns will be necessary to - as George Orwell put it - "give claws to the weak."


Look again at what Charlton Heston said, compared to the video response:

Well here's my credo: There are no good guns, there are no bad guns. A gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a good man is no threat to anyone except bad people.

The response was footage of a child picking up a handgun; I suppose the point is that all guns are bad things, period. But is that the reality?

Who put the gun in the middle of the floor within the reach of a toddler?

(The cynic in me believes that the camera crew did that, but no matter.)

Leaving a (presumably) loaded gun within reach of a toddler is NOT the actions of a good man. It's an act so irresponsible that there should be punishments for it - at the VERY least, any man whose irresponsibility leads to the accidental death of anyone through the mishandling or a firearm should face charges of third-degree murder.

But Charlton Heston and the National Rifle Association are STRONG advocates of gun safety and would be among the FIRST to condemn actions that led to a toddler handling a firearm.


Essentially, what U2 did in the Elevation tour is not too far from this: refuting the comments of some military man (like, say, General Patton) extoling the benefits of tanks by showing footage of Chinese students in front of tanks in Tieneman Square.

All of that ignores the fact that tanks were instrumental in freeing Paris in World War II.

So, again, it's quite possible that people understood what both Heston and U2 were saying - but still saw the validity of both sides of the issue or (gasp) agreed with Heston.

 

[verte76]

Winston Churchill said something to the effect of "democracy is awful, but it's the best form of government on the planet". In other words, government is a drag, rules are a drag....but we've got to have them. I can see why someone from Ireland would think that guns are an unmitigated evil because of the people who use guns and other weapons around them. But in the U.S. it's different, we didn't have terrorists in here until 9/11, and the shocking thing about 9/11 is that it was the first military attack on U.S. soil since the Civil War. We are not used to this.

 

[JOFO]

well, I always thought it was obvious that u2 were using the heston thing as a tongue in cheek comment; hence the thing w/ the girl picking up the gun: she's a bad person??????

when I saw them, it seemed like people got it and were cheering for the anti-gun stance.

heston
I think is a nut.
guns=

and don't give me a lesson on the right to bear arms:
fastest gun back then was a musket you had to take 5 minutes to load to shoot 1 lousy pebble 20 feet, not an uzi you could buy on the street.

 

[verte76]

Well, we didn't originally plan to argue the gun control issue itself here. I would think that the moderators would prefer that a gun control debate take place in the Free Your Mind forum, which is the political/religious discussion forum.

 

[Mrs.Clayton]

Re: Re: I Still Wonder Why, During The Elevation Tour..

I think people in front start cheering cause they can see the band returning to the stage. And the cheering just grows from there, so that some are cheering cause they hear that someone else is cheering.

I think that's true. I was in the heart, and I couldn't make out one freakin' word he was saying. I remember seeing the band walk on, and cheering for them it wasn't until later that I heard a snip of what was being said over the PA...

 

[AdamsMango]

I think a lot of people cheered just because they didn't know what to do. If they support U2's message, should they cheer (at their statement) or boo (because of Heston)? Or if they agree with Heston, should they cheer (in support of him) or boo (at U2's message)? It's all very confusing, and I think a lot of people just opted for the cheering. Plus, I think many people just wanted to get U2 back on stage, so they cheered.

yeah, some people may have been cheering at U2's message. At the end of Bonos speech at Notre Dame I cheered cause I was like "yeah, you are so right bono! whooo" lol I am dumb and it may have sounded dumb..or I may have gotten a little too many whifs of all the weed being smoked..lol

 

[U2DMfan]

But in the U.S. it's different, we didn't have terrorists in here until 9/11, and the shocking thing about 9/11 is that it was the first military attack on U.S. soil since the Civil War. We are not used to this.

I am sure those at Pearl Harbor might slightly disagree with you.


Some cheered because they agree, if you dont fine, but what he said was not that dramatic, he just said, people with guns are not bad people, at least not all of them.

I don't own a gun, never have, never will. But I'm also not so myopic that I see it as bad. Some of you don't get it, because simply, U2 doesnt get it, it's not the same here in the US as it is in Europe.


IT'S OK TO SAY U2 DONT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT SOMETIMES.

Agree or disagree I couldn't give a fuck less, but they are just men, in a band, and their music is awesome, but their political views are different from their music.

 

[verte76]

I am sure those at Pearl Harbor might slightly disagree with you.

<snip>

IT'S OK TO SAY U2 DONT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT SOMETIMES.

Agree or disagree I couldn't give a fuck less, but they are just men, in a band, and their music is awesome, but their political views are different from their music.

Technically, Pearl Harbor was not in the U.S. at the time of the attack. It was a U.S. base, so it was considered an attack on us. You're right. Let's just say at least part of the shock was that it happened in New York City at a critical vessel of our system. It's about like someone shooting you in a big time artery in your body.
Sure it's OK to say that U2 don't know what they're talking about sometimes. They're human beings who are perfectly capable of screwing up, just like you and me. It's apples and oranges. Which do you prefer?

 

[Se7en]

It is quite possible that some people agreed with Heston - even as a rabid U2 fan, I cannot entirely disagree with Charlton Heston on this one.

The video segment emphasized the point that guns are evil; to be honest, they probably are. They are designed to be lethal weapons, to inflict physical damage upon another human being.

But there is such a thing as a "necessary evil."

In Common Sense, a work that crystalized why the American colonies were declaring their independence, Thomas Paine made this widely known observation:

Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.

I believe that the gun too is a necessary evil: as long as nations attack each other, individuals assault and rob each other, and governments attempt to oppress their people, the gun will be necessary. As long as the strong seek to abuse their power, guns will be necessary to - as George Orwell put it - "give claws to the weak."


Look again at what Charlton Heston said, compared to the video response:

Well here's my credo: There are no good guns, there are no bad guns. A gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a good man is no threat to anyone except bad people.

The response was footage of a child picking up a handgun; I suppose the point is that all guns are bad things, period. But is that the reality?

Who put the gun in the middle of the floor within the reach of a toddler?

(The cynic in me believes that the camera crew did that, but no matter.)

Leaving a (presumably) loaded gun within reach of a toddler is NOT the actions of a good man. It's an act so irresponsible that there should be punishments for it - at the VERY least, any man whose irresponsibility leads to the accidental death of anyone through the mishandling or a firearm should face charges of third-degree murder.

But Charlton Heston and the National Rifle Association are STRONG advocates of gun safety and would be among the FIRST to condemn actions that led to a toddler handling a firearm.


Essentially, what U2 did in the Elevation tour is not too far from this: refuting the comments of some military man (like, say, General Patton) extoling the benefits of tanks by showing footage of Chinese students in front of tanks in Tieneman Square.

All of that ignores the fact that tanks were instrumental in freeing Paris in World War II.

So, again, it's quite possible that people understood what both Heston and U2 were saying - but still saw the validity of both sides of the issue or (gasp) agreed with Heston.

What he said...

It would take a bad man to allow a toddler access to a gun. That doesn't refute the fact that a gun in the hand of a GOOD man is a threat to no one...except bad people.