I kind of have an understanding of Popmart...

[The Searcher]

A lot of people think that POPMart was crap, and wasn't U2 at their best. However, we know that POP was probably their best work to date...

POPMart, from which I just learned a few nights ago, is based on commercialization and communisim. The golden arch is a parody of McDonalds...

This is my take on POPMart... I've read "The U2 Reader" and I know that U2 was making this distinct sound on POP that was going to revolutionize the music industry, they wanted to capture it and be one of the firsts to do it, after all it worked well on Achtung Baby.

POPMart was pretty much ZOO TV Part II, big screens, images, and lots of flashing colors. However, Bono wasn't making fun of society this time, it was in the songs, and the images on the screens. Everything that was done on POPMART was part a spoof on how commercial everything was, how rock stars feel their "gods" compared to the concert goers. But also, that concerts were going to be revolutionized. For U2, this was the peak that they would reach, before 'failing' in America. It wasn't received well in America, but that doesn't matter too much.

U2 took a gamble with ZOO TV, and took another gamble with POPMart, but this time -- it wasn't well received, people saw through ZOO TV and realized that POPMart was just too big and too flashy, even for a concert.

 

[ponkine]

I attended to Santiago 11-02-1998 and it was a landmark gig indeed but I don't remember feeling confuzed, dizzy, saturate, etc, by the images they were fantastic and impressive, but they didn't stole the show, that was band's performance

I don't know about Zoo TV but a friend told me the same story

 

[Screwtape2]

Nothing beats thier performances of Please & Streets during Popmart.

 

[beachball]

I saw my PopMart Mexico videotape again yesterday. What an outburst of emotions!

I need this concert on DVD, but I wonder if it will ever happen. PopMart has always been the scapegoat, which is not fair at all, it's a brilliant show.

 

[Screwtape2]

There are so many songs on the Popmart tour that they need to bring back. Maybe on thier next tour they will replace the Achtung Baby set with a Pop one with HMTMKMKM.

 

[zoobeatle]

I see that Mc Donalds arch when i go to work and cant help thinking of Popmart.

 

[schnumi]

I saw my PopMart Mexico videotape again yesterday. What an outburst of emotions!

I need this concert on DVD, but I wonder if it will ever happen. PopMart has always been the scapegoat, which is not fair at all, it's a brilliant show.

Amen. I want this on DVD. U2 doesnt need to be so negative about POP. It was a great album with great songs.

The mexico concert deserves to come out on DVD just like the Sydney ZooTV concert did.

 

[J_NP]

A lot of people think that POPMart was crap, and wasn't U2 at their best.

US People you mean , coz it was the only country in the world which didn't like it ...... who knows could have been offend or something by the McDonald's thing ..... No but Serious Mate , except in the US , go for any review of the persons , in Europe , in America , in ther other places , Popmart was an immense succes .

So remember that , when you say people didn't like Popmart , put in United States People

 

[david]

I don't think they were going to revolutionize the music industry with the sound they were going for with POP, since afterall, it borrowed from sounds that existed and were popular at the time.

The same can be said about Achtung Baby as well.

 

[Salome]

I preferred POPMart to ZOOTV (at least the shows I went to)

that being said I thought POPMart got a bit boring because it started to sound like a ZOO TV rehash until they started playing Pride + Still haven't found
then the show got the soul that won me over (and MOFO was a great opener)

 

[angelordevil]

A lot of people think that POPMart was crap, and wasn't U2 at their best. However, we know that POP was probably their best work to date...

POPMart, from which I just learned a few nights ago, is based on commercialization and communisim. The golden arch is a parody of McDonalds...

This is my take on POPMart... I've read "The U2 Reader" and I know that U2 was making this distinct sound on POP that was going to revolutionize the music industry, they wanted to capture it and be one of the firsts to do it, after all it worked well on Achtung Baby.

POPMart was pretty much ZOO TV Part II, big screens, images, and lots of flashing colors. However, Bono wasn't making fun of society this time, it was in the songs, and the images on the screens. Everything that was done on POPMART was part a spoof on how commercial everything was, how rock stars feel their "gods" compared to the concert goers. But also, that concerts were going to be revolutionized. For U2, this was the peak that they would reach, before 'failing' in America. It wasn't received well in America, but that doesn't matter too much.

U2 took a gamble with ZOO TV, and took another gamble with POPMart, but this time -- it wasn't well received, people saw through ZOO TV and realized that POPMart was just too big and too flashy, even for a concert.

That's a great analysis

 

[Screwtape2]

I think alot of US public didn't like Pop or Popmart for two more reasons:
1. Pop is very European, I think alot of Americans didn't get it.
2. Popmart In Las Vegas. The versions of Do You Feel Loved & If God Would Send His Angels were...well, they make me feel sad beacuse Bono is trying so hard to keep the songs going. I think alot of Americans heard or saw it and were scarred by it. Seriously, if you ever get the chance to listen to the DYFL or Angels from Las Vegas you should just to understand what early Popmart must have been like for the band.

 

[jacobus]

ZOO TV was their best 'cause it set the standard for all the following mega-shows.
i don't see POPmart as ZOO TV part 2 for me it was a show on its own using great animations on XXL-(led)screen. i was at 4 POPmart shows and i got addicted then. the start of the show every time it was mindblowing...(popmuzik intro, entering the stage and slipping into the majestic MOFO. POPmart was unique and in retrospect its state of the art with all the animations and the then usage of software...

 

[An Cat Gav]

Much as I loved Pop Mart, compared to ZOO TV, it was a pale shadow.
The message behind Popmart, which I'm well aware of, was lost in my opinion. I doubt if many people who went to the popmart gigs, but werent diehard U2 fans would have really got it. WIth Zoo Tv it would be difficult not to get it. Not because ZOO Tv was dumbed down, but because the meaning was put across so much better.

 

[Liesje]

Much as I loved Pop Mart, compared to ZOO TV, it was a pale shadow.
The message behind Popmart, which I'm well aware of, was lost in my opinion. I doubt if many people who went to the popmart gigs, but werent diehard U2 fans would have really got it. With Zoo Tv it would be difficult not to get it. Not because ZOO Tv was dumbed down, but because the meaning was put across so much better.

I'm the total opposite. As much as I love U2 and Bono, I've never caught on to ZooTV. I'm not a big fan of Bono's voice during that era, and the whole alter-egos thing kind makes me go Sure it was a great show, great songs, but IMO PopMart takes the cake for me. The PopMusic > Mofo > I Will Follow and Please > Streets > More Streets combos make the PopMart setlists my favorite to date.

 

[LemonMelon]

we know that POP was probably their best work to date...

That's a new one. Now, folks aren't just saying that they think Pop is U2's best work, but that it's common knowledge...

POPMart, from which I just learned a few nights ago, is based on commercialization and communisim. The golden arch is a parody of McDonalds...

This is my take on POPMart... I've read "The U2 Reader" and I know that U2 was making this distinct sound on POP that was going to revolutionize the music industry, they wanted to capture it and be one of the firsts to do it, after all it worked well on Achtung Baby.

POPMart was pretty much ZOO TV Part II, big screens, images, and lots of flashing colors. However, Bono wasn't making fun of society this time, it was in the songs, and the images on the screens. Everything that was done on POPMART was part a spoof on how commercial everything was, how rock stars feel their "gods" compared to the concert goers. But also, that concerts were going to be revolutionized. For U2, this was the peak that they would reach, before 'failing' in America. It wasn't received well in America, but that doesn't matter too much.

U2 took a gamble with ZOO TV, and took another gamble with POPMart, but this time -- it wasn't well received, people saw through ZOO TV and realized that POPMart was just too big and too flashy, even for a concert.

But good analysis anyway.

 

[LemonMelon]

2. Popmart In Las Vegas. The versions of Do You Feel Loved & If God Would Send His Angels were...well, they make me feel sad beacuse Bono is trying so hard to keep the songs going. I think alot of Americans heard or saw it and were scarred by it. Seriously, if you ever get the chance to listen to the DYFL or Angels from Las Vegas you should just to understand what early Popmart must have been like for the band.

WTF are you going on about? Do You Feel Loved was a gorgeous version. Dead on, really. And IGWSHA wasn't far behind. You must be thinking of SATS, a version that was truly abominable.

 

[U2girl]

"Bigger, better and faster than Zoo TV" - Paul McGuiness

Not really.

 

[An Cat Gav]

"Bigger, better and faster than Zoo TV" - Paul McGuiness

Not really.

Definately not!

 

[toscano]

I think alot of US public didn't like Pop or Popmart for two more reasons:
1. Pop is very European, I think alot of Americans didn't get it.
2. Popmart In Las Vegas. The versions of Do You Feel Loved & If God Would Send His Angels were...well, they make me feel sad beacuse Bono is trying so hard to keep the songs going. I think alot of Americans heard or saw it and were scarred by it. Seriously, if you ever get the chance to listen to the DYFL or Angels from Las Vegas you should just to understand what early Popmart must have been like for the band.

There is so much crap written about how the US "didn't like" or "didn't get" Popmart, really, who is anyone outside the US to judge whether or not Americans "got it" ???

Stadium shows, while not sold out to a large degree, were attracting as many fans as the same cities were attracting during the Elevation/HTDAAB shows.

Reviews in the press were generally favorable.

So, I challenge everyone who says "Americans didn't get it" to explain what makes them think the general American U2 fan didn't getit.

The casual fan maybe didn't get it, hence th elower sales, and obviously judging by the mediocrity of HTDAAB and ATYCLB, they have won back the casual fan.

 

[guill]

who is anyone outside the US to judge whether or not Americans "got it" ???

Screwtape2
Location: Omaha, Nebraska

 

[toscano]

Screwtape2
Location: Omaha, Nebraska

Maybe Omaha didn't get it......

 

[U2girl]

There is so much crap written about how the US "didn't like" or "didn't get" Popmart, really, who is anyone outside the US to judge whether or not Americans "got it" ???

Maybe the attendances in US stadiums in the first leg, and the follow-up short third leg give away a hint that US didn't love Popmart?
Why do you think U2 scrapped playing stadiums in US ever since?

 

[schnumi]

Much as I loved Pop Mart, compared to ZOO TV, it was a pale shadow.
The message behind Popmart, which I'm well aware of, was lost in my opinion. I doubt if many people who went to the popmart gigs, but werent diehard U2 fans would have really got it. WIth Zoo Tv it would be difficult not to get it. Not because ZOO Tv was dumbed down, but because the meaning was put across so much better.

But i think most people didnt even care for the "message".

When they went to POPmart they saw: A fantastic ROCKING rock and roll show.

No talking about 3th world countries, nothing off that just pure hard rock and roll.

I would love to see U2 do that one more time.

 

[toscano]

Maybe the attendances in US stadiums in the first leg, and the follow-up short third leg give away a hint that US didn't love Popmart?
Why do you think U2 scrapped playing stadiums in US ever since?

As I said before, comparing paying customers in each stop, more/similar # of people attended ATYCLB shows as did Pop.

Example:

Vegas Popmart - 37000
Vegas Elevation - 18000

SoCal Popmart - 66000
SoCal Elevation - 49000 1st leg


No Cal popmart - 67000
No Cal Elevation - 36000 1st leg

I can't be bothered looking up more, but you get the drift I hope?

Why no more stadiums ?

A number of speculative reasons, in no particular order

Ego - They like guaranteed sellouts

Weather - Not too many stadiums in good weather areas in March/April or Oct/Nov which is when they were scheduling their Elevation and Vertigo tours.

Availability - Too many conflicts with Baseball and Football seasons during those tour times

Money - Can't charge the higher dollar for stadium shows as not enbough casual fans will pony up, costs are lower for an arena for multiple nights, ergo higher profits

To suggest carte blanche that Americans "didn't get it" is preposterous.

 

[guill]

Before the release of Pop, Bono explained that he wouldn't be surprized if Pop became succesful in Europe and a flop in America, he said that American radios dislike when songs are not clearly rock songs or rap songs or dance songs, etc. He explained that he had difficulties to "sell" the record to American radios, they just ignored where to put Pop, was it a rock album ? a dance album ?
Maybe the "Americans radios didn't get it" turned into "Americans didn't get it" to explain the poor sales and the American leg failure.
Americans didn't love this album, it doesn't mean that they are dumb or too stupid to understand irony. And frankly, there was not much to understand in the Popmart concept, the arch looks like McDonald, there is a giant lemon, a big screen with "the monkey to the guy who push a caddy" image.... i mean... it's not very complicated to understand..... coupled with an interview of Bono repeating that Popmart was a parody of consumerism...... unless you're a donkey, it was easy to "get" Popmart and frankly, you paid a concert ticket to hear songs not to watch a supposedly ironic concept or a giant screen.
In my opinion, Popmart and Pop failed because of the promotion campaign, it was not clear if Pop was going to be a rock or a dance record, Bono made this joke about it "i said it was going to be a dense record, they wrote it was going to be a dance record".
Discotheque was not really a hint about Pop too, it was a succesful single but not the kind of single that attracts WAR/JT fans.
Popmart started at the same time, people ignored what they were going to see, they didn't really like the record, the word to mouth didn't work, singles didn't push Pop and by extension Popmart, the band was not ready, etc..... all these elements led to this little flop.

 

[schnumi]

As I said before, comparing paying customers in each stop, more/similar # of people attended ATYCLB shows as did Pop.

Example:

Vegas Popmart - 37000
Vegas Elevation - 18000

SoCal Popmart - 66000
SoCal Elevation - 49000 1st leg


No Cal popmart - 67000
No Cal Elevation - 36000 1st leg

I can't be bothered looking up more, but you get the drift I hope?

Why no more stadiums ?

A number of speculative reasons, in no particular order

Ego - They like guaranteed sellouts

Weather - Not too many stadiums in good weather areas in March/April or Oct/Nov which is when they were scheduling their Elevation and Vertigo tours.

Availability - Too many conflicts with Baseball and Football seasons during those tour times

Money - Can't charge the higher dollar for stadium shows as not enbough casual fans will pony up, costs are lower for an arena for multiple nights, ergo higher profits

To suggest carte blanche that Americans "didn't get it" is preposterous.

Just but also note that the POPmart stage costs where way larger then those of Elevation.

Elvvation was a piece of cake to setup. POPmart took a huge amount of money and time to prepare.

 

[Screwtape2]

There is so much crap written about how the US "didn't like" or "didn't get" Popmart, really, who is anyone outside the US to judge whether or not Americans "got it" ???

Stadium shows, while not sold out to a large degree, were attracting as many fans as the same cities were attracting during the Elevation/HTDAAB shows.

Reviews in the press were generally favorable.

So, I challenge everyone who says "Americans didn't get it" to explain what makes them think the general American U2 fan didn't getit.

The casual fan maybe didn't get it, hence th elower sales, and obviously judging by the mediocrity of HTDAAB and ATYCLB, they have won back the casual fan.

Okay, I'll answer this in two parts.

First off, you've almost made my first point for me. Of the thousands of people who buy U2 albums and go to concerts alot of them would fall under the category of casual fans. If the forum is any indication, the bigger U2 fans are still a little divided on Pop. So, the casual fan might not have understood Pop and some who went to the concert might not have got it either. Unfortunately the casual has as much influence on the albums sales, ticket sales and U2's own opinion on thier work as the fans who are more than casual.

Second, the album's sound was very different from the music scene in America at the point of it's release. Remember Zooropa wasn't a big seller in America compared to other U2 albums. I say this as an American, that the mainstream music in America doesn't seem to accept anything that's really experimental. The general American audience had to figure it out. It didn't help either that the tour started so soon after the album's release which didn't allow Americans to really take in the album before seeing it live. The Discotheque video really confused Americans I think. Seeing the group dressed as the Village People didn't get the response U2 wanted.

I hope that answered your question, toscano.

 

[toscano]

In my opinion, Popmart and Pop failed

Failed HOW ? though

It sold millions and people turned up by the tens of thousands every night to see the show, it what regard was it a failure ?

 

[toscano]

Just but also note that the POPmart stage costs where way larger then those of Elevation.

Elvvation was a piece of cake to setup. POPmart took a huge amount of money and time to prepare.

So ? The question was of attendance (Popmart comparable or better than Elevation and HTDAAB) and of why no more stadiums, which I speculated on. You hit the nail on the head in respect though, why no more stadiums ? PROFITS!