Have U2 become TOO good and therefore beyond themselves?

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bsp77 said:
People should be able to give their opinions without being attacked.
I think the problem is still not so much that people are getting attacked about their opinion, but that some people keep portaying their opinions as facts and seem to not want to recognise this in any way


besides that
I prefer ATYCLB to Bomb more than a lot
 
Salome said:
I think the problem is still not so much that people are getting attacked about their opinion, but that some people keep portaying their opinions as facts and seem to not want to recognise this in any way

You do realize that not everybody uses IMO or 'in my opinion' when saying something, even if they do mean it as just their opinion! I can see how it can get annoying to use IMO every single time you say something.

What I don't get is it's all just opinion anyway. This whole website is just opinion except for the News section. Then why do people get their panties in a bunch??? :huh:
 
Salome said:
I think the problem is still not so much that people are getting attacked about their opinion, but that some people keep portaying their opinions as facts and seem to not want to recognise this in any way


:bow:
 
Zootlesque said:


You do realize that not everybody uses IMO or 'in my opinion' when saying something, even if they do mean it as just their opinion! I can see how it can get annoying to use IMO every single time you say something.

What I don't get is it's all just opinion anyway. This whole website is just opinion except for the News section. Then why do people get their panties in a bunch??? :huh:

Would you please stop portraying your opinion as a fact? It reeeeeaaally pisses me off.


imo.
 
Zootlesque said:


You do realize that not everybody uses IMO or 'in my opinion' when saying something, even if they do mean it as just their opinion! I can see how it can get annoying to use IMO every single time you say something.

What I don't get is it's all just opinion anyway. This whole website is just opinion except for the News section. Then why do people get their panties in a bunch??? :huh:

Yeah, I NEVER say IMO. Generally you should be able to tell whether the person is truly so sure of themselves by the way they write it.
 
Zootlesque said:


You do realize that not everybody uses IMO or 'in my opinion' when saying something, even if they do mean it as just their opinion! I can see how it can get annoying to use IMO every single time you say something.

What I don't get is it's all just opinion anyway. This whole website is just opinion except for the News section. Then why do people get their panties in a bunch??? :huh:
I don't need to see "IMO" 250 times

but there are people who post something and when someone disagree they say those people are either wrong or they basically repeat what they already said before without recognising any other opinion as near valid

quite often it is not that obvious who is actually the first one to get their panties in a bunch :shrug:
 
U2Man said:


Would you please stop portraying your opinion as a fact? It reeeeeaaally pisses me off.


imo.
it doesn't piss me off
but it seems only fair that if you want people to listen to you, yuo try to figure what part of what your saying is opinion and what part is fact if only to make a better arguement


fall back plan is always sarcasm though :up:
 
Salome said:
it doesn't piss me off
but it seems only fair that if you want people to listen to you, yuo try to figure what part of what your saying is opinion and what part is fact if only to make a better arguement


fall back plan is always sarcasm though :up:

I believe most adults can separate opinions from facts without having to be guided through.

This discussion is silly, anyway.

Edited to say: ...and it wasn't really sarcasm. Zootlesque is extremely annoying. And he admits it openly, just look at his signature.
 
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U2Man said:


I believe most adults can separate opinions from facts without having to be guided through.

This discussion is silly, anyway.
silly it might be
but it seems to be the root of the problem of many fights here

to seperate opinions from facts is actually extremely difficult
even more so when your own opinion is involved


but I do enjoy a bit of bickering anyway
 
Zootlesque said:


You do realize that not everybody uses IMO or 'in my opinion' when saying something, even if they do mean it as just their opinion! I can see how it can get annoying to use IMO every single time you say something.

What I don't get is it's all just opinion anyway. This whole website is just opinion except for the News section. Then why do people get their panties in a bunch??? :huh:

I think there are fine lines.

When someone says, "Song A has one of U2's best rhythm sections", is purely opinion. This should be rather obvious that it's only opinion.

But when someone says, "Album B was considered a failure by the majority of fans because it was too complex" is opinion sold as fact. For this type of statement can be refuted or backed by objective material using reviews and general consensus of fans.
 
U2 girl: I cannot just say "No. I don't like HTDAAB." or "No, I hate HTDAAB." because I do not hate it. Just trying to point out the things I don't like about it. Or the way U2 seems to have approached the recording of this album, IMO. But if you like it a lot, so be it. If Aygo thinks it is the greatest album ever and that Yahweh is the greatest song ever then fine. Newsflash: Opinions differ! What're we fighting about again?
You know, they closed the "new direction in next U2 album "thread in Where The Album Has No Name. Funny thing is, it had nothing to do with the actual discussion. It was because Aygo and Snowlock starting cursing at each other. Damn shame because it was actually a thought-provoking thread for once.

Ok. You want to go that way. Fine, I don't care. But first, let me tell you that it's not very gentle from your persons to come again and talk about "what happened in the other thread" and reffering other interferers nicknames as guilties for this or that action.
You want to blame me for that? That's ok.
Will I be seen here as a thread-closer and a unconditional 00's U2 appreciator (even though that's not true)? Perhaps..., and that's fine too.

If mods want to ban me from here for having being rude (too) in another thread, go ahead, I don't really care about it. Big deal... But it's a shame that things like these happen in a forum like this and worse is that those things are allowed by those who supposedly control it. Not even on a forum people learn to accept the others' point of view and impose their opinion by force as if it was imperial, I wouldn't call it democratic.

I'm going to stop posting here. Now, you don't have to take with those replies such as "HTDAAB is a great album" or "I like the band's most recent work" and all opinions like my one won't have to be discussed 'till everybody starts backlash against it. When I get bored, i'll come here and distract myself with the ridiculous and senseless replies such as many I read here everyday.

Oh,... you can go on the thread, don't bother because of me. Keep on discussing if there will be a ATYCLB part III or not, this was only a side remark. But please, I'd ask not to refer my nickname again in an ocasion the one on page 4 of this thread. Thank you.

People should be able to give their opinions without being attacked.
That's not what's been happening here, but... agreed.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:

But when someone says, "Album B was considered a failure by the majority of fans because it was too complex" is opinion sold as fact.

:scratch:

I would say it's either a false statement or a true statement. Not an opinion.
 
Aygo said:

But please, I'd ask not to refer my nickname again in an ocasion the one on page 4 of this thread. Thank you.

I'm sorry if me mentioning your name bothered you that much. I didn't say anything negative about you though. Just that we all have differing opinions and that it's silly to be arguing and fighting over this.

:huh:
 
U2Man said:


:scratch:

I would say it's either a false statement or a true statement. Not an opinion.

Well it pretty much is, but that person may have seen people's rejection of it because "they didn't get it." So their opinion can cloud the objectiveness of reviews and such. It happens all the time in here.
 
Can everybody just stop picking on each other, and splitting hairs about words used, perceptions, IMO's, facts, non-facts and so on...?

Or else I just would have posted a thread called: "Put your words in a weight-scale, and if you don't like them, knock each other out!"

Stop arguing like little children and just comment on the initial thread, for f... sake!!
 
onyourkneesboy said:
Stop arguing like little children and just comment on the initial thread, for f... sake!! [/B]


It would, er, help if the initial thread made sense.










:sad:
 
*looks down the list of users arguing on this thread* Yup, looks like every other HTDAAB-bashing thread. :tsk:

Why stop with just a "small club"? Maybe we need a whole ATYCLB > HTDAAB Forum just so you folks can go there and bash 24/7.

Well you at least got one thing right - that "club" you all are a part of is, indeed very small. HTDAAB is a complete album that swept the grammy's and won album of the year.

ATYCLB is roughly half an album with a bunch of B-sides thrown in. Other than New York, the back end of the album is below average at best. And anyone who thinks the second half of ATYCLB is up to U2's standards, IMO, shows a lack of musical good taste. HTDAAB is likely what U2 had in mind when they set trying to make ATYCLB and failed. The reason the two albums sound similar is that the band wanted to get it right the second time around. And they did. Creatively, lyrically and musically HTDAAB is superior.

As far as getting BACK to the actual topic that started this thread, no band can become "too good". It is the same as those who seem to think you can "over-produce" an album. There is no such thing. U2 produced these albums to attempt to create the sound they were after at the time. They did the same thing back in the 80's but back then the band iself was not as sophisticated as it is now. The musicians and the men of U2 have matured and grown more sophisticated and so has their music over time.

What you are hearing out of U2 recently is an outgrowth of a band that has tightened back up and became more together than they have been since the early 80's. The sound is beautiful and soaring at times while focusing on the concepts and thoughts of the best lyricist in the world today. To those that detest this style of U2, don't worry. With the completion of the masterpiece that is HTDAAB, U2 will likely go in a new direction in their never-ending search to expand their sound and reach into new areas. U2 is never static and always dynamic. U2 is about the future. They will never become "too good".
 
I don't see how people say that the original post doesn't make sense. Dense are we?

The whole point of the original post is: as the members of U2 have become better musicians and lived the life of the rich and famous...ect, has it hurt their musical output?

The magic of U2 in the 80's was their simplicity. They stated over and over in interviews that they would be nothing without the collective group because none of them were great musicians. But together...magic can happen. As time went by, U2 naturally became better musicians and have in a way become more focused on the formula of making hits. They have now become master songwriters. Now they know how to do it. In the past they didn't know their craft quite so well, so the songs came out more raw--from a more natural place. The pieces just sort of fell together and sometimes they didn't (October, half the songs on TUF, half the songs on War).

Anyway, the magic is still there IMO. I think ATYCLB is a fantastic album and I would listen to it well before I'd listen to Boy, October, War, TUF, TJT, R&H or Zooropa. I always tell myself that I don't like HTDAAB as much as Achtung or Pop or ATYCLB...but for some odd reason the disk has stayed in my car since it was released almost 2 years ago and is my most regularily played album after Achtung Baby.
 
cypress said:
Yup, looks like every other HTDAAB-bashing thread. :tsk:

(...)

ATYCLB is roughly half an album with a bunch of B-sides thrown in. Other than New York, the back end of the album is below average at best. And anyone who thinks the second half of ATYCLB is up to U2's standards, IMO, shows a lack of musical good taste.
That's a good argument why there shouldn't be any HTDAAB-bashing: ATYCLB sucks! Says cypress. And he's right of course, 'cause we suffer from a lack of musical good taste.





:lmao: :laugh:
 
Indeed

WalkOn21 said:
That's a good argument why there shouldn't be any HTDAAB-bashing: ATYCLB sucks! Says cypress. And he's right of course, 'cause we suffer from a lack of musical good taste.





:lmao: :laugh:

Yeah I don't recall bashing the Bomb, just saying I liked it less than ATYCLB. I certainly didn't support my opinion with "facts" about Bomb being half an album with a bunch of B sides either. Back to that old opinion as fact crap.
 
cypress said:


ATYCLB is roughly half an album with a bunch of B-sides thrown in. Other than New York, the back end of the album is below average at best. And anyone who thinks the second half of ATYCLB is up to U2's standards, IMO, shows a lack of musical good taste.



:|
 
I disagree that the last two albums were a waste. I found that the songs of Bomb really came alive on tour. I really think that U2 are just finding themselves again musically. I think that U2 needs only to bring out the live potential of the songs out in the studio. Daniel Lanois said that the The Joshua Tree had the feel of performance. U2 just needs to bring the production value up. In the great albums, U2 songs felt like the band was in the room with you. Take Original Of The Species for example, the album version can't beat the live version. My solution is that the band (this might be a stupid idea) "borrow" an arena and record the album in a stadium atmosphere.
In short, U2 needs to bring the songs to thier full potential before finishing an album. U2 did it with Vertigo, they can do it again.
 
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