Grammy Awards

[STING2]

are those the soundscan numbers or the RIAA certifications, which as you probably know can be years and years behind?
asking probably Zooropa onward, as the older albums were in that 'in between' period for soundscan. I am thinking worldwide when I think of those numbers, so I am crossed up.

It is interesting to note that about POP.
So it was more popular?
But it didn't sell as much, so that's out the window.....
More accessible? Well it sold substantially less, so that's out the window as well.....

maybe those airplay numbers mean diddly squat.
Any given song can receive more airplay than any other given song and there is no guarantee to any qualification other than the fact that it was played X number of times. PERIOD.

Accessibility is like saying, good or bad, subjective. Is there chart data for what is good and bad as well?

The Soundscan figure for Zooropa in the United States is 2.3 million as of December 2005. The Shipment figure is only 100k to 200k ahead of that in the USA. POP's December 2005 soundscan figure to be more precise is 1,493,000. These two albums are no where close to be certified at the triple or double platinum level respectively by the RIAA.

In contrast, the Joshua Tree, Achtung Baby, and other albums could be recertified soon at an even higher level. The Global figures for Zooropa, 6 million and POP 5.5 million are a little better but are still behind global figures for ATYCLB 12 million and HTDAAB 9.5 million.

I did not say POP was a more popular album, I said it received more airplay than either ATYCLB or HTDAAB. In order to get played on the radio, programers look for songs they think are accessible. Of course that is a judgement by the radio programers. The buyer of the album may have bought because they liked what they heard on the radio, from a friend in his car, or what he read about in a review from a magazine or newspaper. The record buyer though does not purchase the album though because they thing it is accessible.

It is a subjective judgement, but radio programers do that for a living, so I do consider what they play to be relevant in regards to the debate about what is or is not accessible.

 

[STING2]

1-that's because in 1993, MTV played more videos in general.
2-In 1993, MTV didn't have MTV2 and the others
there was a VH1, but not the Vh1 classic and others, there are so many avenues these days, I've seen HTDAAB singles on at least 4 of them.
3-See 1 and 2 for Pop.
Personally, I have witnessed more HTDAAB and ATYCLB videos than I ever did for Pop, do you have the numbers for video spins, or are we just talking about pure subjective opinion "I saw this" "you saw that"?? I'm not sure they exist, I'd doubt it.

Lastly, the fact that Zooropa undersold ATYCLB and HTDAAB underscores the fact that it came out of nowhere. Going from Achtung to Zooropa, a year and a half gap, and only 6 months removed from the support tour to Achtung, it SCREAMS precicsely what we were saying.

I got the worldwide numbers and the US numbers mixed up. Does 6 mill worldwide sound right for Zooropa? I was crossed up, ATYCLB definitely sold more than that worldwide, 10 or 11 mill? HTDAAB is around 9? I'm not positive about all those numbers.

and to the 'top 100' point, of course it is.

WE ARE ALL TALKING ABOUT OPINIONS.
Opinions on accessibility etc.
You are the only one trying to quantify this subjective topic with radio airplay data. It doesn't fit or fly, that's all anyone is trying to say and all you keep quoting is chart data and sales data. This is like calling into a sports radio show to talk about sports and just reading the box scores to everyone, who in most cases already get it, already knew it.

I'm interested in your opinions, I can get a subscription to Billboard in 5 minutes.

Radio airplay, determined to a degree by, Radio Programers, who make a subjective judement about what is accessible and not accessible for a living every day, is relevant to this debate and does add something beyond my opinion of what is or is not accessible.

Its true video's got much more play on VH1 and MTV back in the early 1990s. In fact, it was hour after hour of just videos back then with an occasional show some nights. MTV is now almost all shows except for hours when most people are sleeping. The same goes for VH1. MTV2 use to be the new haven for videos but that disapeared about a couple of years ago. MTV2 now plays Jack ass spin offs and Beavis and Buthead Re-runs. When and if they play videos, it is 75% Hip Hop and 25% Punk Rock. The hours to look at are from 3 pm to 11 pm when most people with normal school and working hours would have time to view them.

 

[Lila64]

I think radio programmers, at least the 'rock' station here, suck. Just my opinion. I digress momentarily.

For example, when the first Audioslave was released, I wasn't aware of it or who they were. On occasion, one of the DJs who plays whatever the hell he wants on his show (10:00pm-2:00am M-F) played 'Like A Stone'. After a few listens, I kinda liked it. Asked some friends about it - they loved it & recommended it highly. I bought it - loved it. Then, last April/May comes around. I know now that they have a new CD being released. I anticipate hearing it on the radio. Nothing. See them live in town - great. Still no airplay. I call a couple of times to request it - nothing. One time the phone boy (not the DJ answering) said he didn't even think they had a copy of it. Yet all the while there was a new Jackson Browne song or something from some old 70s artist that they kept playing. But they wouldn't play anything new from Audioslave, nor have they til this day, at least nothing that I'm aware of (it is still a rock station!). U2's latest album was released in November 2004... this DJ finally caught them live in L.A. last November (I was at both shows) and he was amazed, especially by Love & Peace Or Else. He just apparently hadn't taken notice of it until then. Now he plays it often. I believe there is one daytime DJ (female) who is a big fan and had gotten to attend the RNR Hall Of Fame induction last year. She plays U2 in her rotation.

So radio programmers "control" what you do/do not hear, which I'm not so crazy about. Perhaps someone else would have enjoyed the new Audioslave (or insert other artist here) had they been given the opportunity to hear it. Not everyone keeps tabs of what's new, what's coming out, and call/try to request certain music (which I did at the time, and you see where that got me). The state of radio sucks

Ok, sorry I ranted on a different topic. Carry on!




by the way - I've never been a fan of watching "videos", and do not watch MTV, VH1, Fuse, or whatever else is out there

 

[cypress]

I think radio programmers, at least the 'rock' station here, suck. Just my opinion.

That's my opinion about all of the radio stations on my radio dial with the exception of college radio. Radio Programmers do a poor job as a whole.

 

[Lila64]

I don't like the fact someone is controlling what I do and don't hear. I'm stuck with crap like Joe Walsh on the radio at the moment

 

[cjboog]

I want so badly for them to win album of the year so that they can break into the top 50 in sales again and get on pace to catch up to ATYCLB in sales. They need to realease OOTS as a full fledged single and give bomb one last push that will keep it in the top 100 for a while and by the next album comes around hopefully be somewhere close to 4 million sold in the US.

 

[sue4u2]

I want so badly for them to win album of the year so that they can break into the top 50 in sales again and get on pace to catch up to ATYCLB in sales.

Why? (sales?)
Does winning validate U2 as being the end all - of "all music"? No

Lord knows, I love to see them win, but when they don't, it doesn't destroy me.
At this point it doesn't matter if they are considered less or better than anyone in sales. It may matter to you about the number of grammy awards they win, since they only have 17. I know they (U2) love to win!! No doubt Who deosn't...
However, they have already surpassed any other band that can compete with Henry Mancini /Stevie Wonder, etc.. for Grammy
award numbers.
and still I don't care if anyone else like's U2. If they win
I love them - and last I saw, millions love them also.

 

[4EVRU2]

HTDAAB has actually sold better than ATYCLB once you adjust for the different market conditions the albums were released in. Sales for albums in 2004/2005 are significantly lower than they were in 2000/2001 all across the market. The decline has been 21%. This is because "file Sharing" other internet downloading, and CD burning, all which involve obtaining music without paying for it, are much more common place today than they were in 2000. BOMB has sold just over 3 million copies at this point while ATYCLB at this point had sold 3.2 million copies. Adjusting for the different sales climate though, back in 2000/2001 with the same chart positions as now, BOMB would have sold 4 million copies up to this point compared to ATYCLB 3.2 million.

In addition, HTDAAB was released on November 23, 2004 not in October 2004. On Billboard's year end chart which for 2005 which runs from the last week in November 2004 to the 3rd week in November 2005, BOMB came in at #8 in the United States. By comparison, Achtung Baby was released on November 19, 1991 and came in at #5 on the year end list for 1992. So HTDAAB impact on the current market is nearly the same as the impact Achtung Baby had on the market back in 1992!

The reason sales tailed off after the first couple of months for HTDAAB is because radio was unwilling to play U2's other songs. Vertigo was the only song to get moderate airplay in the United States making it to #31 on the HOT 100. "Sometimes" made it to #97 but only spent 3 weeks on chart. No other songs from HTDAAB have received enough radio airplay to crack the HOT 100.

What looks far more amazing is when an artist is able to sell this many albums with so little airplay.

Once again, the album is the 8th biggest selling album of the year in the United States. It is the 2nd biggest selling album of the year worldwide! Simply put, you can't really ask for a more popular album in 2005 than the BOMB especially when you add in the massive popularity of the tour which when it ends in April 2006 will be the highest Grossing tour in the history of the planet. All this with smaller airplay than POP received in 1997.

The question remains, if it was simply name recognition, why didn't Zooropa and POP sell in such high numbers, especially in a climate where Cd burning and file sharing were rare if non-existent back in the 1990s.

Wow! You're "facts" (if they are, indeed factual) are dizzying; you must have a lot of time on your hands (not to mention an awesome memory) to acquire all this information!! U2 SuperFan!

 

[U2DMfan]

Well radio programers did not agree that Zooropa was far less accessible since the level of radio airplay that Zooropa received nationally in the United States was not that far behind HTDAAB, especially when you look past the Vertigo single. In addition POP received considerably more radio airplay than ATYCLB and HTDAAB. Both Zooropa and POP received more video play on MTV than HTDAAB has.

Sting, wouldn't you agree that radio programmers will play what they think the public wants? I am sure you would.

So if Zooropa and Pop received a comparable amount of radio airplay vs HTDAAB or ATYCLB, what would this tell the objective person?

That U2 was vastly more popular at the time.
At least to those radio promgrammers.
Why? Because the sales didn't match the supposed demand.
So in turn, U2 got the radio hits and didn't get the big sales.
Now, the sales do hold up their own end, yet the songs, are about at the same level. What does this tell us?

That radio programmers caught up to U2's popularity bubble, doesn't tell us much more than that.

 

[cjboog]

Why? (sales?)
Does winning validate U2 as being the end all - of "all music"? No

Lord knows, I love to see them win, but when they don't, it doesn't destroy me.
At this point it doesn't matter if they are considered less or better than anyone in sales. It may matter to you about the number of grammy awards they win, since they only have 17. I know they (U2) love to win!! No doubt Who deosn't...
However, they have already surpassed any other band that can compete with Henry Mancini /Stevie Wonder, etc.. for Grammy
award numbers.
and still I don't care if anyone else like's U2. If they win
I love them - and last I saw, millions love them also.

I am also not destroyed when they lost but I love to see them succeed. I always watch the sales and chart numbers closely becuase I take pride in watching U2 succeed. I guess I like HTDAAB more than ATYCLB and can't stand to see it lagging 1,500,000 behind in sales. I want the sales to increase so that I feel like the sales of Bomb are in keeping with what a great record it is.

 

[STING2]

Sting, wouldn't you agree that radio programmers will play what they think the public wants? I am sure you would.

So if Zooropa and Pop received a comparable amount of radio airplay vs HTDAAB or ATYCLB, what would this tell the objective person?

That U2 was vastly more popular at the time.
At least to those radio promgrammers.
Why? Because the sales didn't match the supposed demand.
So in turn, U2 got the radio hits and didn't get the big sales.
Now, the sales do hold up their own end, yet the songs, are about at the same level. What does this tell us?

That radio programmers caught up to U2's popularity bubble, doesn't tell us much more than that.

Just to clarify, POP received considerable more radio airplay than either ATYCLB or HTDAAB, yet it only sold 1.5 million copies. ATYCLB sold over 4 million copies with about half the radio airplay of POP. HTDAAB in a market strained by "File Sharing" and CD Burning, has received even less airplay than ATYCLB and is at the 3 million mark and counting.

Zooropa actually received less airplay than all three of the albums above, although it was not that far behind HTDAAB. It sold 2 million copies in a market that did not suffer from the effects of "file sharing" and "CD burning".

Despite the fact that radio has turned its back on U2, the amazing quality of the new albums ATYCLB and HTDAAB is the reason why they have sold so well despite receiving so little radio airplay. ATYCLB won 7 Grammy awards and HTDAAB won 3 last year and is nominated for 5 on Wendsdays awards show. I also noticed in the often quoted "Rolling Stone top 100 albums of all time" which is derived from the issue about the top 500 albums of all time, that ATYCLB came in at #139! A lot of people on here have refered to that list as being a really accurate list of the best albums of all time, although only the top 100 was listed in here. I just saw the list again and noticed that U2 had 5 albums in the top 500.

 

[U2DMfan]

Just to clarify, POP received considerable more radio airplay than either ATYCLB or HTDAAB, yet it only sold 1.5 million copies. ATYCLB sold over 4 million copies with about half the radio airplay of POP. HTDAAB in a market strained by "File Sharing" and CD Burning, has received even less airplay than ATYCLB and is at the 3 million mark and counting.

Zooropa actually received less airplay than all three of the albums above, although it was not that far behind HTDAAB. It sold 2 million copies in a market that did not suffer from the effects of "file sharing" and "CD burning".

Despite the fact that radio has turned its back on U2, the amazing quality of the new albums ATYCLB and HTDAAB is the reason why they have sold so well despite receiving so little radio airplay. ATYCLB won 7 Grammy awards and HTDAAB won 3 last year and is nominated for 5 on Wendsdays awards show. I also noticed in the often quoted "Rolling Stone top 100 albums of all time" which is derived from the issue about the top 500 albums of all time, that ATYCLB came in at #139! A lot of people on here have refered to that list as being a really accurate list of the best albums of all time, although only the top 100 was listed in here. I just saw the list again and noticed that U2 had 5 albums in the top 500.

Okay, first two paragraphs, you echoed exactly what I said.
Okay, so we agree.

Now, third paragraph, you got all subjective on us, which is fine.
"amazing quality".

When U2 sells well, w/o great radio support= it's because of the "amazing quality" of the new album

but when U2 sells poor (in context) w/ great radio support, it is because the singles were accessible, or what?

You tell me. That's what I read.

 

[STING2]

Okay, first two paragraphs, you echoed exactly what I said.
Okay, so we agree.

Now, third paragraph, you got all subjective on us, which is fine.
"amazing quality".

When U2 sells well, w/o great radio support= it's because of the "amazing quality" of the new album

but when U2 sells poor (in context) w/ great radio support, it is because the singles were accessible, or what?

You tell me. That's what I read.

With little support from radio, its very difficult for an album to sell large numbers, unless the music is so outstanding that people rush out to buy what they have heard from only a limited number listenings or from the word of mouth of fans. That is more of what we have seen with ATYCLB and HTDAAB.

On POP, while Radio programers liked what they heard more in terms of what they thought was accessible, the public did not like what they heard in general and did not go out to buy the album despite the fact that POP received double the radio airplay and video play of HTDAAB.

The singles on POP failed to sell the album because the quality of the material was not as good as U2 singles before that time and U2 singles since that time. In my opinion Discotheque was probably the best song out of the three that did get significant airplay, the others being "Staring At The Sun" and "Last Night On Earth". All though there are good things about these last two songs and I enjoy them, they should probably both be re-recorded, especially "Last Night On Earth".

 

[financeguy]

Ah, the old 're-record Pop' chestnut.

I find it funny considering the sloppy production on HTDAAB.

A case of too many cooks spoil the broth methinks (on HTDAAB that is).

 

[LeafsNation]

It's hard to take the Grammies seriously when you realize that one of the most influential and popular bands ever...Led Zeppelin...never received a Grammy or even a nomination. Oh sure, they were an afterthought for a "lifetime achievement award", but how could they have completely missed the boat on Zep?

 

[cjboog]

I've been skimming around the internet for predictions, and A LOT of sites are predicting that How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb will win album of the year and most are predicting it would be silly if bomb didn't win rock album of the year. Also, song of the year is pretty evenly split between Sometimes..., We Belong Together, and Devils and Dust based on what I have read in the last hour.

 

[cjboog]

I was just reading the Los Angeles Times prediction and their music reporter "believes U2's "Atomic Bomb" will decimate the competition in the album and song of the year contests".

 

[Lila64]

was that Hilburn? I didn't read the whole article on the Grammys or McCartney yet...

 

[Lila64]

btw, who gets to go to the Grammys? Can the average Joe (or Lila) attend? After all, I can get to Staples Center
It's tape delayed here on the west anyways, so I'll know the winner long before it airs (cuz I'll be online here!!!)


Edited: Just saw this on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/48th-Annual-Gra...ryZ16122QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Lila64]

according to the L.A. Times music critic, Robert Hilburn:

How it ought to go
February 5, 2006
ALBUM OF THE YEAR

Mariah Carey: "The Emancipation of Mimi"

Paul McCartney: "Chaos and Creation in the Backyard"

Gwen Stefani: "Love. Angel. Music. Baby."

U2: "How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb"

Kanye West: "Late Registration"

We all know that emotion plays a big part in awards show voting and you can build a case for why voters would vote, emotionally, for any of these. Carey is the comeback story of the year. McCartney has never won in this category for his solo work. Stefani is pregnant. And so on. Musically, it's strictly a race between West (above) and U2. Both gave us marvelous albums, but West's broke the most ground.

 

[cypress]

CBS has been using "City of Blinding Lights" in some of their promos/commercials for the Grammys.

 

[Val]

Geez, I can't stand the suspense...I wish I bit my nails for stress relief

 

[Lila64]

well I just hate that it is live east coast, and I will have to watch it 3 hours later, although I'll be online so you east coasters can give me the news and schedule of when they U2 (and others) perform - I can tape/tivo accordingling...

 

[Pop Artist]

Well, I know U2 is not opening the show (although I wasn't expecting them to since the last time they did it they opened), the news just said Madonna will be opening the show.

 

[Lila64]

 

[Carek1230]

Lila you can go hang out with fans outside Staples and watch the glitterati arrive and all the red carpet hoopla....I know some girls who did so last year and caught glimpses of Bono and Edge. If it was a Friday or a weekend night I'd go, but no can do on a work night. I will be here online and watching....altho, hmmmm, do I really wanna know before watching it?

 

[Lila64]

I can't go. I'll live, and yes, I want to know in advance. I can't wait 3 hours to first start watching! I think

vote on that poll - I just moved U2 up about 5% and still counting!

http://et.tv.yahoo.com/micro/grammys/

ETA: is it fair that I voted numerous times to put U2 in front, ever so slightly

 

[Lila64]

a picture from 2005 I found on that site

 

[Utoo]

I can't go. I'll live, and yes, I want to know in advance. I can't wait 3 hours to first start watching! I think

vote on that poll - I just moved U2 up about 5% and still counting!

http://et.tv.yahoo.com/micro/grammys/

ETA: is it fair that I voted numerous times to put U2 in front, ever so slightly

haha...i just put them up to 50%

 

[ozeeko]

I'm a die hard U2 fan and i DON'T want them to win. First of all, I didn't even like the album. Second, I want them to be a hungry band again (artistically speaking) and a little less praise would do the trick. If they win, I don't see them changing gears in the future.