Good God AB is brilliant

[Axver]

Firstly, thanks to namkcuR. I appreciate the support, and I naturally second the post.

some people need to stop trolling.

You could've just called me out by name. I really don't mind that. Not that I believe I've been trolling at all, though. The funny part is people post far more inflammatory shit in threads about the current tour, Elevation tour, pre-UF albums, new album, etc., but rarely are they actually accused of trolling. On the other hand, I post my opinion of Achtung Baby, backing those thoughts up with explanations of the logic behind them, and I'm accused of trolling! It's also funny how people here can reasonably disagree over, say, Angel Of Harlem - some people like it, some don't, but no-one gets into a fight or throws insults - but if anything negative is said about the Zoochtung period, there's a collective "OMG you're a nut" attitude from some parts of Interference.

you don't like achtung baby? fantastic. you think it's overrated? great. you think the album should've never been made? awesome. keep the opinion to yourself if you come across these sorts of threads, as what you're doing is trolling, and it's getting old.

I was under the impression that messageboards are where people discuss opinions and ideas - including opposing ones. Part of the reason some people seem to think EYKIW sucks at the moment is because there's no good debate and exchange of ideas. I really don't think the discussion here should be shut down.

In any case, what you just said are the very arguments pro-Vertigo Tour people have tried to use to shut down setlist bitching on the tour forum, and yet the bitchers pretty much have free reign. They continue to post. As long as they are allowed their negative opinion of the Vertigo Tour, I feel I should be allowed my opinion that Achtung Baby is not deserving of the idolisation it receives on this forum. As namkcuR said, I believe UTEOTW, The Fly, Acrobat, and LIB are masterpieces, I like Zoo Station, WGRYWH was great live, and let's face it, EBTTRT and Mysterious Ways are good fun. Doesn't sound like the opinion of a troll trying to stir up shit, does it? I'm just trying to offer a perspective rarely heard on this forum - that Achtung Baby isn't the god of albums and that I feel U2 should not have chosen that exact direction (moreso with the tour than the album).

 

[Axver]

This thread has strayed wildly off topic, so here's another post that continues that theme ...

He's just being a douche on purpose and that makes the forum more interesting .

I will admit that sometimes, I feel this forum's attitude is very singularly focused on Achtung and needs some diversity. However, I never seek to bring diversity by stirring shit - I try to explain my alternate perspective. Sometimes I let passion blind a reasoned explanation, though, and for all the instances I've done that, I apologise. There's one earlier in this thread about wishing Achtung wasn't made. I just wish it was made differently. How Wild Irish Rose missed the cut, I will never understand.

He doesn't have any great hatred of AB.

It's not even last on my album rankings. RAH (yes, Heartland's album and the record being promoted on Lovetown!), ATYCLB, and Pop are all after it on my list, and I'd like to make it clear that Pop is my eleventh favourite and I think it's exceptional.

It's just an overwhelming love for Lovetown. Notice how Axver is typically not as hard on Popmart as he is ZooTV? If Popmart had come before ZooTV, then Popmart would've been the murderer of Lovetown and it, instead of ZooTV, would be the subject of his scorn.

There's a few reasons why I'm less hard on Popmart - I think the setlist was better, I prefer the stage (I'm a lemon lover), and Bono/the band don't rub me the wrong way nearly as much as they do on ZooTV. And, yes, it didn't immediately follow Lovetown. ZooTV sometimes seems like a kind of betrayal of Lovetown - it's the opposite in almost every way, so why is it any shock to anyone that a Lovetown fanlad isn't gushing all over AB/ZooTV?

 

[kennerado]

Lovetown ROCKED
Achtung Baby ROCKS

Anyone that says "Lovetown Sucks" like Pero has absolutey NO FUCKING IDEA. Hey Pero go listen to "Bad At Its Best" and "Lovetown Power" bootlegs and tell me the band was not in the best live condition ever.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

You could've just called me out by name. I really don't mind that. Not that I believe I've been trolling at all, though.

i wasn't just referring to you. i was referring to what happens in what seems like...i'm losing count of what albums/eras it happens in these days where people just can't seem to stay out of appreciation threads to say "this sux lol."

The funny part is people post far more inflammatory shit in threads about the current tour, Elevation tour, pre-UF albums, new album, etc., but rarely are they actually accused of trolling. On the other hand, I post my opinion of Achtung Baby, backing those thoughts up with explanations of the logic behind them, and I'm accused of trolling! It's also funny how people here can reasonably disagree over, say, Angel Of Harlem - some people like it, some don't, but no-one gets into a fight or throws insults - but if anything negative is said about the Zoochtung period, there's a collective "OMG you're a nut" attitude from some parts of Interference.

there's a difference between this thread and those you mentioned. from what i've noticed at least, the inflammatory remarks weren't made in appreciation threads. it has nothing to do with keeping this era sacred or anything. in fact, i seem to recall telling people to stop shitting on your heartland appreciation threads months ago. even if it's an appreciation thread of an album i don't like, if someone or lots of people go in and shit all over the thread, i'm just as against it as someone doing the same to any thread of any album.

I was under the impression that messageboards are where people discuss opinions and ideas - including opposing ones. Part of the reason some people seem to think EYKIW sucks at the moment is because there's no good debate and exchange of ideas. I really don't think the discussion here should be shut down.

the topic of discussion in this thread is to discuss how much you like the album, not to come in here and say how you think the album should've never been made in the first place.

In any case, what you just said are the very arguments pro-Vertigo Tour people have tried to use to shut down setlist bitching on the tour forum, and yet the bitchers pretty much have free reign. They continue to post. As long as they are allowed their negative opinion of the Vertigo Tour, I feel I should be allowed my opinion that Achtung Baby is not deserving of the idolisation it receives on this forum. As namkcuR said, I believe UTEOTW, The Fly, Acrobat, and LIB are masterpieces, I like Zoo Station, WGRYWH was great live, and let's face it, EBTTRT and Mysterious Ways are good fun. Doesn't sound like the opinion of a troll trying to stir up shit, does it? I'm just trying to offer a perspective rarely heard on this forum - that Achtung Baby isn't the god of albums and that I feel U2 should not have chosen that exact direction (moreso with the tour than the album).

don't even go comparing two forums here. as i keep saying, appreciation threads are different, and if you can't see that, then i'm sorry. but no sorry, your little theory doesn't work. and there are hardly that many achtung baby threads in here. of all the albums, i think there are more pop threads than anything else. but we've had so many threads to vote for your favourite album and achtung baby always wins. and if you're acting like the majority of people aren't entitled to their own opinion, then i'm flabbergasted.

 

[namkcuR]

Just out of curiosity, can a thread without the word 'appreciation' in the title constitute an appreciation thread?

 

[Axver]

there's a difference between this thread and those you mentioned. from what i've noticed at least, the inflammatory remarks weren't made in appreciation threads.

Since when was this an appreciation thread? Looks more like an album discussion thread to me, started by someone keen on the album. Whatever was wrong with "this album is fantastic!! [reasons why]", "I disagree, because [reasons why]" How come that kind of discourse is not permitted in all threads? Essentially, the topic at hand is "that Achtung Baby is brilliant". Some people believe it is, some believe it isn't. Permitting only one of those groups to post seems extremely one-sided.

but we've had so many threads to vote for your favourite album and achtung baby always wins. and if you're acting like the majority of people aren't entitled to their own opinion, then i'm flabbergasted.

... HUH? Where did I even imply the majority aren't entitled to their opinion? Go for it, they can have their opinion. What I am saying is that I am all for a diversity of opinion, rather than letting a single opinion dominate. Diversity is good, it leads to interesting exchanges of perspective and quality threads.

 

[david]

I wont discredit Lovetown at all, it was an interesting tour, it was a precurser to the looser and more less than serious side of U2 which came about during ZooTV. In just a few short years U2 went from being a pretty good live act which was still rough around the edges (Joshua Tree) to being seasoned professionals (Lovetown). And if you look at the Lovetown setlists it's like they were almost like the ZooTV Zooropa leg setlists where the main focus was on Joshua Tree and Rattle and Hum songs and a few oldies, that's how ZooTV was, cept Achtung Baby songs and Zooropa songs were the focus and they threw in some old classics.

So why's everyone arguing?

 

[Pero]

Lovetown ROCKED
Achtung Baby ROCKS

Anyone that says "Lovetown Sucks" like Pero has absolutey NO FUCKING IDEA. Hey Pero go listen to "Bad At Its Best" and "Lovetown Power" bootlegs and tell me the band was not in the best live condition ever.

I don't think it sucks, but in comparison to ZOO TV it sucks(for me) and i will never love it as much as i love Zoo TV.

btw. which show was it when they played reversed setlist on lovetown

 

[Axver]

btw. which show was it when they played reversed setlist on lovetown

1 December 1989, Osaka.

 

[Aardvark747]

1 December 1989, Osaka.

Where would we be without u Ax?

 

[YBORCITY]

Achtung Baby is U2's Best Album by a country mile.

ZooTV is U2's best concert by a country mile.

As good as all the earlier albums and tours have been they were only a warmup for what U2 produced in the early 90's, and since ZooTV they have never been able to live up to that measure.

Spot On with everything you said. I kinda go back and forth between Unforgettalle Fire and Achtung Baby but when I really put them against each other there's no comparison.

IMHO Achtung will be seen as one of the greatest albums in all time.

 

[cobl04]

I don't have enough time to read all the posts so I'm just going to say one thing - Achtung Baby is my second favourite album after ATYCLB. They change regularly. I love UTEOTW, you should have seen me singing at the top of my voice with air guitar after I watched Slane again. I also love UV and Acrobat.

One is overrated. I think it's great, but it is far, far, far better live.

And I would just like to add that Axver is not a troll. He is just expressing his opinion, if more aggresively than others. But I agree - the forum is sometimes so AB-centered. There were other great eras or albums or shows that U2 have done. I do get sick of constantly seeing "AB appreciation" and "Wow AB is good" all the time. I think it is a great album, but every we don't need the same threads with a different name all the time.

I hope that isn't trolling, because I haven't come back. Back to the topic - AB is a great album!

 

[namkcuR]

One is overrated. I think it's great, but it is far, far, far better live.

No. Nothing can top the timeless studio version. Except for possibly the one in Modena with the orchestra that was on the Miss Sarajevo single.

 

[Zoots]

No. Nothing can top the timeless studio version. Except for possibly the one in Modena with the orchestra that was on the Miss Sarajevo single.

Amen! I'm not sure if I've heard the Modena version but the studio track is amazing and better than most live versions that I've heard. Exact opposite of Bad.

 

[Axver]

No. Nothing can top the timeless studio version. Except for possibly the one in Modena with the orchestra that was on the Miss Sarajevo single.

I don't think so. I don't like Bono's singing as much on the studio version, and it fades out rather than hitting the glorious "do you hear us coming?" verse, which I think is the best part of the song. That said, One on Elevation and especially Vertigo hasn't been as good as the studio version.