Global warming, fair trade, debt relief, aid to Africa...whew what else...

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U2Kitten said:


:banghead:

READ THE LONG POST I JUST MADE!!!! I ALWAYS say the whole continent isn't like that, and I get angry when people say that! I also recently posted an article about even! So shut up about it already! I was talking about ONLY the ones in need that get talked about all the time by Bono. If the shoe fits, wear it, if not, toss it. Same with what I said about Americans, not all are poor and in debt and struggling but lots are.

But what you said doesn't even apply to "the ones in need that get talked about", so why even make up stuff like that in the first place? Even the poorest of the poor in rural Africa have their pride and dignity. In talking to them you learn they'd rather not be given hand outs if it's coming from the attitude that they are too poor to even understand what's good for them. Your "shoe" doesn't fit anyone but yourself in this case.
 
Africa's problems started waaaaay before many of us were even born, even before my parents were born. It all started with the shipping of slaves to the West, basically. That hurt our economy tremendously, because of loss of labor, etc. Whole lot of reasons. Since then, we've never managed to recover. The Berlin conference didn't help either with the colonization by European countries. I'm not saying we were rich before slavery, but people were happy with what they had. The slavery issue during the 19th century started the whole downward spiral. We've never managed to get better since. Sad.
 
U2Kitten said:


Look, I am one of the first to say that branding the poor sickly kids in mud huts as "Africa" is about as fair as showing some starving family in a tumbled down shack in Appalachia and calling it "America." I have posted this several times, I guess you never read that, eh? Just a couple days ago I even posted an article about African leaders complaining about the same thing! What I was talking about is the way people say that because poor in America are better off than poor in other countries they are somehow not worthy of any pity or consideration and should shut up.

You know if I said what I really thought of all the holier than thou people here and all the ones who say I 'don't know what I'm talking about' I'm afraid I'd not only be banned my heart would explode from the pressure of letting it all out. YOU don't know as much as you think either, none of you do. What I have stated about the poor in America IS TRUE because I have lived it and lived around others who have been even worse than me- people of all colors and nationalities and backgrounds. My case is that it's unfair to disregard all of us! My gosh the way you've trashed me is shameful. I poured my heart out and put my life on public display and all some of you can do is insult me. YOU don't know me and YOU don't know what you're talking about! I have posted what I see and know for sure from where I stand. It needs to be considered too in the entire picture.


U2Kitten Whats the deal? and What are you doing here is all you do is argue with people? You know I was poor once too when I was younger, life was not easy for me and mother...but luckily I have landed on solid rock and have come to realize that everyone has a cause. Just because someones cause is not the poor in the Appalachians doesn't mean you should put them down or other poor ethnic groups. You know just remember everyones shit smells the same!
 
I'm not putting anyone down except those who judge that America is a rich country and has lots of money to give away when we have people here suffering too. And all of my family comes from Appalachia! And they are not 'inbreeders' like the stereotype says! I am NOT putting anyone down only using examples! I certainly do not put anyone down for being poor! It's the rich and out of touch who think they know about the poor that I'm bashing! :wink:

Here's an example of how something is not always as it seems to the rich who only read up on something: a few years ago, a poster here was pushing free trade and posted part of a paper she wrote where she said her research said US cotton farmers had a net worth of a million dollars while those in poor countries were struggling. Well on paper, technically, that net worth may be true, but have you ever met one of those cotton farmers? I have, I lived near a lot of them in southeastern VA for years, and my kids went to school with them. That 'million' is the 'net' worth, including their land, their homes, their outbuildings, farm machinery, and the POTENTIAL the price their crop may bring in market IF nothing happens to damage it, IF the prices stay a certain level! Even IF they do get the amount expected, (far less than a million!) consider that's the entire family income, and family business income for a whole year. They have to live on that, maintain the place and all the vehicles and farm machines and put in a new crop the next year. These people drove old cars and couldn't afford to send their kids to college. They were barely eeking out a living, yet the research paper made them sound like millionaires. That's what I mean.
 
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U2Kitten said:
I'm not putting anyone down except those who judge that America is a rich country and has lots of money to give away when we have people here suffering too. And all of my family comes from Appalachia! And they are not 'inbreeders' like the stereotype says! I am NOT putting anyone down only using examples! I certainly do not put anyone down for being poor! It's the rich and out of touch I'm bashing! :wink:

No one said America is a rich country and should be giving everything away. I don't get where you're getting these things you're supposedly responding to. Stop twisting this into your own agenda. It has nothing to do with the original topic and you've personally demeaned and insulted enough people already.
 
Liesje said:

Stop twisting this into your own agenda. It has nothing to do with the original topic and you've personally demeaned and insulted enough people already.

Who have I insulted? Have you even read my posts or just take a word here and there and incorrectly assume what you think I mean and jump on me? Don't twist my words for your own agenda and make them say something I didn't say. Good lord! :banghead:
 
U2Kitten, if your debt is so bad, and you're struggling so much, then maybe you should prioritize. Things like internet connections and concert tickets are luxuries. If you did without them for a while, maybe you could alleviate some of your own debt. Also, you've got over 17 thousand posts (not to mention some of your prior alters), that undoubtedly takes up a lot of time, time which could probably be better spent doing other things, like working a few extra hours and making more money to spend on your children.

Personally, I know what it's like to grow up poor in America. I know what it's like to have your utilities turned off. To not have heat in the winter, or to not have water. I know what it's like to have to go to a friend's house just to take a hot shower. I know what it's like to get almost nothing for Christmas because your parents couldn't afford it. I know what it's like to never have the clothes all the other kids at school are wearing and be made fun of for it. I know what it's like to be hungry because we have to make what little food we have last a little longer. I know what it's like to rely on charity.
And you know what? I think I'm a better person because of it. Because I know what it's like to have absolutely nothing. And so now that I have the luxury of not having to worry about all those things, I am extremely grateful for what I have, and I don't complain when I can't afford that new DVD I want, or those concert tickets I'd like, because I know what it's like to have so much less.

But yes, I'd like to reiterate what so many more people have said in this thread. Comparing the poor in Africa to the poor in America is absolutely absurd. I can't say I've actually been to Africa and experienced it with my own eyes, but it doesn't take a genius to understand the difference.
 
And y'all haven't demeaned me? Assuming I'm so stupid I don't even know not everyone in Africa is in a mud hut when I'm the one who always points that out? Like I said the people I am putting down here are RICH people who think they know things about the poor that they don't. That's all. But yeah your holier than thou attitude and speeches do get on my nerves real bad. :reject:
 
U2Kitten said:


Who have I insulted? Have you even read my posts or just take a word here and there and incorrectly assume what you think I mean and jump on me? Don't twist my words for your own agenda and make them say something I didn't say. Good lord! :banghead:


:| :|

Didn't I JUST say I was offended?? If you think people are being "mean" to you and "jumping on you" then stop making such posts if you know from beforehand that they will cause controversy.
 
they don't even have electricity and certainly don't care about the things we have in the US so it doesn't matter as much to them. All they want is shelter, clothes and medicine.

Yeah I'm sure you were really talking about rich Americans there. Think what you want, but we're still waiting an explanation for that one...
 
How in the world did we get to the point that someone could actually and seriously equate the debt of entire nations with the personal debts of individuals? That has to be the most ridiculous argument ever made on this topic. I have several thousand dollars in debt, but I am in no way under any illusion that my situation is even remotely close to being as bad as the poor in Africa. To think that is absolutely mind-bogglingly ridiculous.

Do you or your husband (or both) have a job, U2Kitten? How much does it pay? I can guarantee the answers to those two questions (particularly the second one) already put your quality of life far above the typical poor person in Africa. I hope you can understand why most of us here are more than a little skeptical of your argument's rationale.
 
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Babydoll said:



:| :|

Didn't I JUST say I was offended?? If you think people are being "mean" to you and "jumping on you" then stop making such posts if you know from beforehand that they will cause controversy.


I could of sworn I pointed this out a while back that she somehow conveniently ignored.
 
Diemen said:
Do you or your husband (or both) have a job, U2Kitten? How much does it pay? I can guarantee the answers to those two questions (particularly the second one)already put your quality of life far above the typical poor person in Africa. I hope you can understand why most of us here are more than a little skeptical of your argument's rationale.

Thank you!!
 
U2Kitten said:

You know if I said what I really thought of all the holier than thou people here and all the ones who say I 'don't know what I'm talking about' I'm afraid I'd not only be banned my heart would explode from the pressure of letting it all out.

You WILL be banned if you keep causing trouble all the time because, frankly, I'm getting VERY tired of having to step into all of these threads lately because of stuff YOU have posted. I swear, it seems you just absolutely live for drama. Chill out.
 
To the conservative tune of 250 million per day is what the war is costing US taxpayers. I wonder if the quality of life is going down in the US due to this war? The US could pay off the entire African debt in 4-6 months at the rate of cost that they are spending in Iraq alone.
 
Yahweh said:
To the conservative tune of 250 million per day is what the war is costing US taxpayers. I wonder if the quality of life is going down in the US due to this war? The US could pay off the entire African debt in 4-6 months at the rate of cost that they are spending in Iraq alone.

I wish I could blame it on the war, but am I right in saying our taxes haven't gone up THAT much? I think the worsening quality of life is more due to the fact that health care costs and the overall cost of living keeps rising exponentially, yet people aren't making enough to keep up and the minimum wage has until recently been stagnant. My mom once showed me the hospital bill from when she was born at it was $800 and this was also when women stayed in the hospital longer. I don't know what it is today, but I thought being in a hospital room is like $1500 per day not including the costs of the labor and delivery. A co-worker told me he saved $8000 before they had their first baby. That scared me, to think that I have to start saving so I can afford to have my own baby :(

Anyway, I think if the war is to blame, it's mostly because it has deferred attention away from really REALLY important domestic issues like health care and failing local economies.

So yeah, it's frustrating to think that these sacrifices COULD be worth it if this money were being spent on Africa. Not only is the US becoming the laughing stock of the Western world, we're wasting money on a situation that shows no sign of improving.
 
Bonochick said:


You WILL be banned if you keep causing trouble all the time because, frankly, I'm getting VERY tired of having to step into all of these threads lately because of stuff YOU have posted. I swear, it seems you just absolutely live for drama. Chill out.

WHY do you always jump all over me? The same people fight too, it is not all my fault. I am tired of being misjudged, misunderstood and having crap put in my mouth that I did not even say. I do NOT love the drama, I hate being annoyed and argued with. You must acknowledge that I am not the only person who does not shut up. Maybe I am the one you want to shut up but that does not make me the bad guy as you appear to think. So people get upset at stuff I posted? Well I get upset at what they posted too. Why can it not go both ways? I do not even know why I bother. With you being so judgemental and prejudice against me I do not even have a chance. Just for once I would like to see you give a fair, equal repremand to EVERYONE in an argument, not just a putdown of me. You are extremely biased and it shows. I am a mod on two other boards, and as much as I may disagree with a person or dislike them I NEVER single anyone out to constantly pick on the way you do me. I will not even bother to get into any more of these discussions, I know where I stand.
 
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Bonochick reprimands everyone. Not just you U2Kitten. Give it a rest already. Some of your posts are just completely and utterly ridiculous at times. It's always "woe is me" with you.
 
U2Girl1978 said:
Bonochick reprimands everyone. Not just you U2Kitten. Give it a rest already. Some of your posts are just completely and utterly ridiculous at times. It's always "woe is me" with you.


exactly..:up: you are not the only one who gets warned around here. News flash... everyone is not out to get you. I am sorry but you DO bring in the drama just about everytime you post in threads of this nature. We would all feel and react the same way whether it was you or anyone else who came in here posted such ridiculous things. The same goes for Bonochick if it was another person posting what you have she would of said basically the same thing and warned that particular person.
 
I don't care who you are...if you break rules, I'll say something. It's not just you. Maybe to you it seems as if it is only you because you cause trouble so often that it warrants me having to repeatedly step in. Are you too busy stirring the pot that you don't even see other posts around here? I call people out on the rules whenever I see somebody who breaks them. Take your blinders off and realize that not only does the whole world not revolve around you, it's not against you. You just perceive it that way. Your paranoia is tiresome, annoying, and sad. I'm getting at the end of my rope with warning you. I would just read this reply, let it soak in, and keep your fingers off your keyboard, because if you keep challenging me...and insulting me by insinuating how unfair I am...you will be gone from here. I've had it.

While I shouldn't even have to exert the effort to prove myself to you, I just did a quick search of posts made under my username. I think you'll see that your argument of me just picking on you has no merit.

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4287510#post4287510

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4281593#post4281593

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4277391#post4277391

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4275590#post4275590

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4273096#post4273096

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4270915#post4270915

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4268825#post4268825

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4265699#post4265699

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4265144#post4265144

I don't think I need to continue.
 
Sorry to butt in, I know I am one of the 'others who keep returning here' too, but U2K, perhaps the difference is that 'we' who keep returning to attack you, are with a bunch of people who all seem to have opinions alike.... and you are the ONLY one who has a different opinion, a straight line from ours... perhaps THAT is the reason why you feel so attacked... perhaps it would help if you for ONCE would LISTEN to what we said.... we do read your posts you know, and I try to understand them, but I just don't get your motives and whatever you do to post them...
 
Wow, this thread has gotten a lot longer since the last time I checked in. Apologies because I'm going to post a couple of times here and they will probably be long and a little bit boring, but there are a few points I want to clarify.

On the fair trade issue...I think there are actually three different things being referred to as 'fair trade' here, and they are actually three very different things (this is probably my fault, since I jumbled the three up when referring to them) We have:

#1 - 'Fair trade' in the most traditional sense, which is not 100% defined but in general refers to companies that are fair trade certified by an institution such as FLO-International. I will admit this type of fair trade is not without its potential pros and cons. The pros - workers are able to sell their goods at a reasonable wage, and have some protection in case of price fluctuations in the market. There is also an emphasis on spending money on education and community development, and in helping farmers to become more independent and successful overall, i.e., by having them diversify the kinds of crops they sell. The cons - some say fair trade has the potential to hurt farmers who are not working with a fair trade organization. Essentially because it may create more competition for them, because some farmers may see fair trade as a great opportunity for themselves and enter the market when they wouldn't have otherwise - then the 'fair trade' farmers have some price protection, while the other farmers have to compete for a smaller portion of the market and have no protection to keep their prices from dropping as a result. I have to say that I have mixed feelings about this type of fair trade and I want to find out more about it to see how this problem is being addressed.

#2 - "Ethical businesses" that are set up in Africa, such as Edun and Global Mamas. I may be wrong here, but my understanding is that this would differ somewhat in that these businesses have to follow a more traditional supply and demand business model. While they make an effort to treat their workers well, there is no global set price for a tee shirt or jeans. It also seems less likely that people are going to rush into say, the dress-making market the way they might rush into coffee growing. So overall I am most comfortable buying these types of goods to support trade.

#3 - Law involving trade reform that would allow African countries to trade their goods more easily. I am fairly new to all of this so I don't profess to know exactly which laws specifically are in play here, however, the general idea is that there are tariffs and duties place on goods from Africa meaning it would actually be rather expensive for them to even attempt to sell these goods to other countries. At the same time, farmers in wealthier countries are getting subsidies to overproduce despite lack of market demand, thus flooding the market with ultra-cheap products. Africa can't compete in this situation, and in this particular case, really through no fault of their own. This deck has really been stacked against them, yet another reason why I don't think the 'pick yourself up by your bootstraps!' argument for reform is completely fair, in light of the hurdles we're throwing in their way.
 
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