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Old 10-08-2001, 02:18 PM   #1
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Give War a Chance (Commentary on USA's attack)

As written by Michael Moore

All I Am Saying Is Give War a Chance

10/08/01

Dear Friends,

It's about time! I was beginning to worry that George II didn't have it in
him, that he might wander off to vacation in Omaha again. But finally, the
bombs are raining down on Afghanistan and, as Martha Stewart says, that's a
good thing.

Oh, don't get me wrong -- I deplore war and killing and violence. But, hey,
I'm a pragmatist, I know where I live, this is America and dammit,
somebody's ass had to get kicked!

Our Leader, a former baseball club owner, could have at least had the
decency to wait one more day until the baseball season was over. Poor Barry
Bonds -- will anyone even remember what he did a month from now? At least
Fox had the good grace to get the football game back on the tube within an
hour of the war's start! They KNEW none of us could stomach looking at
Stepford Drones from Fox News for the rest of the day.

Fellow liberals, lefties, Greens, workers, and even you loveable Gore
voters and recovering Democrats -- let me tell you why I think this war on
Afghanistan is good for all of us:

1. Network Unanimity in Naming The War. It has been so confusing the past
four weeks, what with all the networks calling this thing we are in by so
many names: "America's New War," "American Under Attack," America Fights
Back," "War on Terrorism," etc. Now, nearly every network has settled on
"America Strikes Back."

I like this because, first of all, it honors George Lucas. We're a humble
people, we Americans, so we can't quite bring ourselves to call it "The
Empire Strikes Back." "Empire" sounds a little scary, and there's no use
reminding the rest of the world that we call all the shots now. So "America
Strikes Back" is appropriate (and, as Sunday was the last day of baseball,
"strikes" has the necessary sports metaphor we like to use when bombing
other countries).

2. The Citizenry Can Now Go Back to What They Were Doing. I don't know
about you, but nearly four weeks of anxious and tense anticipation of what
would happen next was starting to wear me down. I thought nothing could top
what spending the whole summer agonizing over whose baby it was on
"Friends" did to me.

But the last four weeks was worse than a bad classic rock extended drum
solo. NOW we have resolution. NOW we know the ending -- the bombing to
smithereens of a country so advanced it has, to date, laid a total of 18
miles of railroad tracks throughout the entire country! How very 19th
century of them! I hope our missiles were able to take them out. I don't
want this thing going on forever. Best that we obliterate them before they
come up with some smart idea like the telegraph.

3. Dick Cheney Has Been Moved Into Hiding Again. This can only help. The
farther this mastermind can be kept from young Bush, the better. He's like
that creepy friend of your dad's who has taken a bit too much of a shine to
you. Wait -- he *is* that creepy friend of his dad's! Anytime I hear they
have transported Cheney out of town and into a bunker in the woods, I feel
safe. And don't worry about him having any workable form of communications
with Bush -- remember, this is a government which discovers that a known
terrorist is taking flying lessons in Florida and does nothing.

4. Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Orrin Hatch Will All Be Fighting This War
for Us! These are all honorable men, men of their word, men who would not
expect someone else to fight their battles for them. They have all called
for war, revenge, blood -- and, by God, it is blood I want them to have!
Now that we are at war, let us insist that those who have cried the loudest
for the killing be the first to go and do just that!

I would like to see, by the end of the day, Rush and Bill, Orrin and the
rest of their colleagues down at the recruiting station signing up to join
the U.S. Army. Sure, I know they are no longer young, but there are many
jobs they will be able to do once they get through the Khyber Pass. Surely
these men would not expect our sons and daughters to die for something that
they themselves would not be willing to die for. To make it easy, guys, you
can just go to the Army's website right now!

http://www.goarmy.com/index02.htm

Get your butts over there to Afghanistan and defend a way of life that
allows companies like Boeing get rid of 30,000 people while using the
tragedy in New York as their shameful excuse.

5. Really Cool War Footage. It's been way too long since we've been able to
watch those cruise missiles and smart bombs with their little cameras on
them sail in and blow the crap out of a bunch of human beings. This time,
let's hope the video is in color and that it's attached with a miniature
set of Dolby speaker microphones so we can hear the screams and wails of
those Afghanis as our shrapnel guts them into strips of bacon. Oh, and
let's pray the video can be loaded into my Sony Playstation!!

6. Better a Quickie War Than the Permanent War. Orwell warned us about this
one. Big Brother, in order to control the population, knew that it was
necessary for the people to always believe they were in a state of siege,
that the enemy was getting closer and closer, and that the war would take a
very long time.

That is EXACTLY what George W. Bush said in his speech to Congress, and the
reason he said it is because he and his buddies want us all in such a state
of fear and panic that we would gladly give up the cherished freedoms that
our fathers and those before them fought and died for. Who wouldn't submit
to searches, restrictions of movement, and the rounding up of anyone who
looks suspicious if it would prevent another September 11?

In order to get these laws passed that will strip us of our rights, they
have been telling us that we are in a LONG and PROTRACTED war that has no
end in sight. Don't buy it! We are bombing Afghanistan, and THAT is the
only war in progress. It should be over anywhere from a few days from now
or in about nine years (Soviet-style). Either way, it will end. The good
guys will win. And, if George II is anything like George I, then the bad
guy will win, too, getting to live and go on doing what he enjoys doing
(what were we, like, 40 miles from Baghdad?) while we continue to bomb the
innocents (540,000 Iraqi children killed by U.S. in last ten years from
bombs and sanctions).

As I'm sure you must agree, there are many upsides to this war. Sure, The
Emmys got cancelled again, and, as a nominee this year, I already found out
that I wasn't getting one of those little gold people so who cares if I
can't walk down the red carpet in my Bob Mackie gown? I don't even wear a
gown -- I wear pants, ill-fitting pants at that! Yesiree, I say, BOMBS
AWAY! Rockets red glare! We are all WHITE WITH FOAM!

And please, dear friends, let's look at the bright side for once: The last
time a Bush took us to war and got a 90% approval rating, he was toast and
a ghost the following year. You can't get better than that.

Yours,

Michael Moore
mmflint@aol.com
www.michaelmoore.com
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Old 10-08-2001, 05:33 PM   #2
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Amen Brother ...

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Old 10-08-2001, 05:41 PM   #3
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I need to get a copy of this commentary on paper. I need covering for the bottom of my bird cage.

As usual, another piece of crap from Michael Moore, the King of Crap.

I will adres the Omaha issue alone. Mister Moore called Bush's layover on Spet. 11 in Omaha a "vacation". Some vacation. Did moore actually expect Bush to head to Washington when a plane had just crashed into teh pentagon? What the hell is Moore thinking? That because the president is the president he's not entitled to protect himself?

Moore, of course, has no viable alternatives to war (as there are none), so he trashes the president. I wouldn't expect anything less of this jerk .Typical of the hate-mongerer he is.

[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 10-08-2001).]
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Old 10-08-2001, 06:12 PM   #4
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That's the biggest pile of shit I've ever read. Leftist libs can burn in hell...
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Old 10-08-2001, 06:21 PM   #5
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Well, might I be the first and only one here to say that Americans, particularly patriots, cannot accept criticism.

You hate what he has to say because it makes too much sense.

But the hole in his argument, of course, is the alternative. I would wonder what he would have done differently? However, as Bush himself is a professed believer in limiting the first Amendment even before the crisis, I fear that the Bush administration might take this opportunity to rush his agenda through for the sake of "security." In fact, he could do anything right now, and people would just clap their hand for him. That is a dangerous position to let someone be in.

Melon

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Old 10-08-2001, 06:45 PM   #6
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Leave it to Melon to come in to defend the liberals! Always the brave defender of socialist crap and anti-Republican bullshit! Bravo for not surprising us one bit! Leave it to Moore to make out-of-context literary references to 1984 to defend his lame point! Bravo again! I'm sure George Orwell is turning in his grave. I love how this retard masks this anti-war leftist bullshit with the slight taste of pro-war sentiment to fool the retards among us! We killed 540,000 Iraqi children? Okay. Why question that figure? I'm just going to accept it and file it under "liberal guilt and bullshit" to be viewed and lamented at a later date. Bravo! Encore Moore and melon(head)!
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Old 10-08-2001, 06:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Se7en:
That's the biggest pile of shit I've ever read. Leftist libs can burn in hell...
Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldo:
Always the brave defender of socialist crap and anti-Republican bullshit!
Interesting. Very interesting. Let's all, in fact, spread the hate.



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Old 10-08-2001, 07:45 PM   #8
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I think its sad that anyone would find any thing making sense in what this person named Moore had to say! There are some people out there that will print anything to get attention.
 
Old 10-08-2001, 07:55 PM   #9
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Thats a bunch of rhetoric bullshit... if people actually had mind enough to think for themselves and do some fucking research I can garuntee theyd realise half of that isnt true. But of course, a greater majority of the public, in its lazy 'please spoon feed me my knowledge'attitude, probably wont realise that and will get sucked into a 'lets blow shit up' frenzy. Mleh... This is crap... I hate being powerless to prevent some of the shit out there...
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Old 10-08-2001, 08:12 PM   #10
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The last time someone posted a lengthy quote from the scum that is Michael Moore, the Powers That Be took care of it -- moving the server apparently destroyed the post, and I thank God that it did.

Now that another has reared its ugly head, I will remind the world what I wrote in response to that last post. Thankfully, I saved my work, and I will duly respond to this thread immediately after posting this:


This was originally posted on the front page of Mr. Moore's website, and it's still there, as a "profile in courage":

This is what John F. Kennedy called a true "Profile in Courage." Her name is Barbara Lee and she is the Congresswoman from the 9th District in California.

The daughter of a retired lieutenant colonel in the US Army, Lee was the only member of Congress on September 14th to vote against the bill to give Bush carte blanche powers to go to war however he saw fit.

534 members of Congress and Senators voted YES and only one brave woman -- while denouncing the terrorist act and demanding justice for its victims -- refused to run with the lemmings as they headed off to war.

We salute you, Representative Lee, and we want you to know there are MILLIONS of Americans who believe as you do.


Yes, Barbara Lee was the only member of Congress to vote against the ohterwise unilateral support for President Bush. But the question is, would Kennedy have called her a true "Profile in Courage" had they been contemporaries?

I suggest not. In fact, I believe had Barbara Lee been in Congress during the Cuban Missle Crisis, she would have protested the actions of President Kennedy and stood in defense of the Cubans.

Why do I think this?

Because Barbara Lee is a Communist, and probably a traitor.

Michael Horowitz draws the same conclusion here:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/horowitz...hn09-19-01.htm .

The gist of the article is this:

The United States considered Grenada to be a serious threat in national security because of the presence of a large number of Soviet advisors and the construction of an airport that could be used for Soviet forces.

Representative Ron Dellums, head of the House Sub-committee on Military Installations and ranking Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, disagreed. Testifying before the House Subcommittee on Inter-American Affairs, he said this:

"Based on my personal observations, discussion and analysis of the new international airport under construction in Grenada, it is my conclusion that this project is specifically now and has always been for the purpose of economic development and is not for military use.... It is my thought that it is absurd, patronizing and totally unwarranted for the United States Government to charge that this airport poses a military threat to the United States’ national security."

That statement is not necessarily noteworthy, beyond the fact that it played into the hands of the Communists in Grenada. What is key is that he "submitted his report on the airport to the Communist dictator of Grenada for his prior approval, and subject to any changes he or his military advisers chose to make."

The proof is in documents found after the Marines liberated Grenada. One of the documents was a letter to the dictator to the dictator of Grenada from Carlottia Scott, Dellums' chief of staff, saying that Dellums was "really hooked on you and Grenada and doesn’t want anything to happen to building the Revolution and making it strong. He really admires you as a person and even more so as a leader with courage and foresight, principles and integrity…. The only other person that I know of that he expresses such admiration for is Fidel [Castro]."

The KEY document -- the minutes of a meeting between the dictator and his military staff -- revealed that one of Dellums' aides brought Dellums' report on the airport: "They have requested that we look at the document and suggest any changes we deem necessary. They will be willing to make the changes."

That congressional aide? Barbara Lee.

In the words of David Horowitz...

Dellums acted as an agent of the Communist enemy in abetting his hostile designs against the United States. His emissary in this act of betrayal was Barbara Lee.

And...

Barbara Lee is not an anti-war activist, she is an anti-American communist who supports America’s enemies and has actively collaborated with them in their war against America.

I know a lot of forum members don't like name-calling, but there are times when it is very appropriate. Barbara Lee is a Communist.

And returning to Michael Moore's support of the Representative, I can conclude that one of two things is true:

1) Moore is woefully unaware of Lee's near-treasonous activities.

2) Moore is aware, and condones the activities himself.

He is either ignorant beyond words or a knowing ally of this traitor.

For your sake, Danospano, I hope he is merely an idiot.

But look at his record: there are these damnable journal entries (though it's amusing that he now agrees with the NRA that gun control laws won't stop murder); there is Roger & Me, his criticism of the most successful economic system in history (and the system that puts food on his table); and there's his support of Rage Against the Machine -- a band that, as far as I know, said nothing good about the United States and constantly attacked the very institutions that gave them the right to speak and the right to make money with their speech.

I for one believe Michael Moore knows who he supports -- and he stands to be counted with the enemies of the United States of America.

Since you've posted all these journal entries, Danaspano, and since I've presented these criticisms against them, I HAVE to ask:

Whose side are you on, Danospano?

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 10-08-2001).]
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Old 10-08-2001, 08:12 PM   #11
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Okay, Melon, but why do people like Michael Moore and Saddam Hussein always change that number of dead Iraqis? Case in point: during the "War in the Gulf," Iraq said they lost 100,000; then to garner sympathy (since that wasn't enough), they started saying 400,000, and including massive civilian casualties in those numbers.

With the post-war sanction and flyover casualties, yesterday I read on an pro-Iraqi, anti-U.S. site that 450,000 Iraqis have died due to the sanctions and bombings, and now Mr. Moore states as fact that 540,000 CHILDREN have died from our "bombs" and "sanctions." How does he know? That doesn't agree with his Iraqi buddies, so just tell me where he gets his numbers.

It's just like today: the Taliban first reports that 20 civilians have been killed in the attacks (which, according to them, targeted a neighborhood inhabited mainly by women, children and the elderly), then they changed the number to 6. And how do we know that these aren't just the cadavers of opposition sympathizers whom they threw out there for effect? And all along, hospitals in the towns bombed yesterday report NO casualties!

540,000 CHILDREN killed since the Persian Gulf War? Maybe Mr. Moore's friend Saddam Hussein needs to re-evaluate his priorities within his own dictatorship. And maybe Mr. Moore needs to get a job writing fiction or writing alien stories for supermarket tabloids.

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Old 10-08-2001, 08:44 PM   #12
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And maybe Mr. Moore needs to get a job writing fiction
Isn't that what he's already doing?

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Old 10-08-2001, 08:54 PM   #13
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lol, I guess so, and I guess he doesn't seperate his "political commentary" from his fiction work...
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Old 10-08-2001, 09:03 PM   #14
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Always good to see Americans fighting between themselves!
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Old 10-08-2001, 09:08 PM   #15
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Always good to see Americans fighting between themselves!

Fortunately democracy and free speech allow us to do that!

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Old 10-08-2001, 09:20 PM   #16
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Now, to this thread:

Melon, American patriots *can* take criticism. I for one admit that our foreign policy has been imperfect, and I freely admit that there are problems with the United States -- these problems do not diminish our status as the greatest and most free nation on the planet -- but I admit we have problems.

But, Melon, we do not accept what Moore says, not because it makes so much sense, but because it is so ludicrous. And, frankly, it personally offends me that while the rest of the nation -- men, women, liberals, conservatives -- has rallied behind this just cause, he continues to oppose it.

With every utterance, Michael Moore makes the case that he is an idiot and probably an enemy of the United States.

Don't misunderstand me -- I don't believe Mr. Moore should be arrested or silenced. But he lives in the public eye (sort of -- I actually don't know that many people who give a shit about what he thinks), and he should be disgraced in the public eye. His idiocy should be picked apart at every level, and he and his supporters should be rightfully shamed for standing against America in this cause.

On to the bullshit, his actual article ...


He again takes pot-shots at Bush for going to Omaha on 9/11 -- when it is PERFECTLY CLEAR that government buildings (and Air Force One, we believe) were TARGETED by the terrorists. He thinks common sense is cowardice just because he doesn't like who's making the decisions.

He criticizes the timing of the attack, when the timing could not have been better: our forces were finally in place; we established a coalition of support, including the important Mideast nations; and (this is key), today was a federal holiday, meaning that prime targets for retaliation would be empty for another day.

He again suggests that we're imperialists (and further comparing us to the evil Empire in the Star Wars saga) while conveniently ignoring the prime cause of our foreign policies in the last fifty years (namely, halting the Soviet Empire, which -- in Kruschev's own words -- was going to CRUSH US) and ignoring the fact that, unlike the terrorists we're fighting, we've targeted military targets AND SHOWN COMPASSION to the common man by air dropping rations and supplies.

He sarcastically suggests that the American public believes this was the one and only attack, DESPITE the fact that Bush continues to brace for a prolonged war -- and he makes the idiotic connection to Orwell's 1984.

In terms of logic, he takes "A implies B" and suggests that "since B occured A is true", that is, his argument is this:

1) 1984 suggests that the Big Brother state would want to advertise a long war.

2) Bush has said that this isn't a short-term engagement.

3) Therefore, Bush is the head of a Big Brother state.

The problem is that MANY things can lead to "2", including a benevolent nation going against a difficult foe and being realistic about the timetable.

Hell, most Americans probably didn't think World War II would be short (and honestly, it could have been a LOT longer -- we were lucky at Midway and Normanday, and the Soviet Union could have fallen). I don't think FDR had any delusions about a short war. Does that make FDR the head of a Big Brother state? Certainly not.

All Moore's fallacious argument demonstrates is how completely he believes that WE are the bad guys.

He also suggests that we should have finished Hussein, which is true, but I'm sure he opposed Desert Storm in the first place. He's a retroactive war hawk when it makes a Republican president look bad, and a pacifist when it makes a Republican president look bad. He seems less of a committed idealist and more of a partisan with a personal problem with the Bush family.

He makes really petty comments about Cheney that suggest little more than he dislikes the man -- and he suggests that we long since knew about the terrorists.

(I wonder if he will at least recognize that the planning and training of this attack occured mostly during the Clinton Administration, and that the same administration helped strip our intelligence of its ability to prevent this. Probably not.)

Finally, he brings up the tired, old argument that those who think war is necessary should enlist immediately. It's an old argument that says nothing about whether we should go to war. You have a free state with democratically elected officials and the open forum of debate, and you will have those who did not serve or cannot serve supporting military action. It's the nature of the beast.

If the Founding Fathers thought a military man would be necessary to lead the nation, they would have required it in the Constitution, and great men like Lincoln and FDR would have been on the sidelines instead of the White House.

And no one criticized the elder statesmen of the Revolutionary War (Benjamin Franklin, etc.) for not serving in a war they supported.

And I would suggest, if we are a Big Brother state, that Mr. Moore should show his support for the Taliban and JOIN THEM. He should move there, be forced into military service by seeing his family members arrested and threatened, have the women of his family reduced to the status of animals, and try to write dissenting speech in that totalitarian regime. He should go ahead and live the good life.

He asserts that we're a culture obsessed with war footage (which is true) but ignores the fact that the US government is keeping a tight lid on its plans -- and keeping the safety of its forces as a higher priority than showing the media and the American public the latest bombing.

Finally, there is what he DID NOT SAY. There is absolutely no support for the men and women on the front -- those in the ships in the Indian Ocean, those on the ground in special forces units, and those in the intelligence agencies trying to prevent further attacks.

The VERY LEAST he could have done was support the troops -- even if he can't support the leader. Not supporting the Commander in Chief during a war can itself be demoralizing to the troops, but he could have at least shown some sort of solidarity for the men and women of honor, those who have volunteered knowing that this could happen.

So, melon, where the FUCK does that post make sense?

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Old 10-08-2001, 09:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldo:
Leave it to Melon to come in to defend the liberals! Always the brave defender of socialist crap and anti-Republican bullshit! Bravo for not surprising us one bit! Leave it to Moore to make out-of-context literary references to 1984 to defend his lame point! Bravo again! I'm sure George Orwell is turning in his grave. I love how this retard masks this anti-war leftist bullshit with the slight taste of pro-war sentiment to fool the retards among us! We killed 540,000 Iraqi children? Okay. Why question that figure? I'm just going to accept it and file it under "liberal guilt and bullshit" to be viewed and lamented at a later date. Bravo! Encore Moore and melon(head)!
Fancy you showing up out of the middle of nowhere. Always the breath of fresh air, yes?

And FYI, I support the current military action. However, I also support freedom of speech and expression, and that does include Michael Moore. Our government is not above criticism, even amongst the new Stalinist-style government worshipping going on. Where were all you guys when Jerry Falwell spat his mouth to kingdom come?

Melon

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Old 10-08-2001, 09:25 PM   #18
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ONE MORE THING, DANOSPANO.

I looked, and since September 11th, you have made eleven comments about the events of the day on this very forum:

Two comments were your own thoughts, which I applaud.

Two comments were song lyrics -- U2 and Journey -- which is fine.

SEVEN comments were these articles. For the most part, you've copied, pasted, and ignored the legitimate criticisms of us on the forum, those who take the time to ACTUALLY write our own opinions.

I would appreciate it if you started writing more your own thoughts.

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Old 10-08-2001, 09:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
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And FYI, I support the current military action. However, I also support freedom of speech and expression, and that does include Michael Moore. Our government is not above criticism, even amongst the new Stalinist-style government worshipping going on. Where were all you guys when Jerry Falwell spat his mouth to kingdom come?
If you don't recall, I opposed both Falwell's comments that suggest that our sinfulness brought this about and Moore's comments that our foreign policy brought this upon us.

There's a simple reason that we continue to oppose Moore: people CONTINUE TO AGREE WITH HIM.

And personally, I think you calling our support for the war "Stalinst-style government worshipping" is repellent.

You either have no idea what you're suggesting, or you're delusional beyond help.

If you're suggesting that our government is "Stalinist-style", I would remind you that we are defending individual freedom, that is, democracy, capitalism, and religious pluralism.

And if you are suggesting that our support is "Stalinist-style", I would remind you that we are free, and we freely support our country. This country IS NOTHING LIKE the Soviet Union; there are no purges, there is no censorship, and we elect the people in charge of our govenment.

The bottom line is that the American government officials, the press, and the public have almost unanimously rallied behind the war effort -- and have done so of our OWN FREE WILL.

Is it not possible that we're right? That our cause is just? That, like WWII, our enemies are so evil that we SHOULD support the effort? AND that the American people see this clearly?

Achtung Bubba
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Old 10-08-2001, 09:43 PM   #20
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Bubba, we have agreed on some points, but there are some things I do disagree with.

1) Not everyone who disagrees is a communist. I don't think Barbara Lee is any more a threat to our nation than anyone else. David Koresh was more of a threat, and many in the South revere him as a martyr against government tyranny. If she was a communist, so what? Communism is no longer a credible threat to our nation. Horowitz, always the purveyor of reactionary hysteria, comes to the plate in his usual hysterical manner. Horowitz is to conservatism as Moore is to liberalism: an extremist with no possession of the facts.

2) Another problem I have is with the public reaction to anyone who questions or, fully within their rights, advocates for peace. Particularly with your responses, it is a complete throwback to McCarthyism: labelling any opponent or critic as "traitors" or "terrorist sympathizers" or, in a very McCarthyist manner, Barbara Lee as a "communist." But, simply, as much as you would like to see this as black-and-white regarding the public response, you cannot and will not get it. Not everyone who opposes this war is a spy for Russia or a member of Al-Qaeda. In many instances, it is religious or moral based. Do you know, for instance, that pacifism is a major tenet of many world religions? Even Catholicism, with over 1 billion members, has the Pope advocating for peace. I don't think he's a communist (he worked much of his life to oppose communism), nor is a Taliban lover. But with 90% of the public loving this conflict, why do you let someone like Michael Moore, part of that 10% minority, bother you?

3) I already pointed out that Michael Moore has glaring omissions in what he writes: a critic with no alternative solution. Is there an alternative solution to war? I, personally, think that all options were exhausted. To ignore it would have been to admit weakness, leaving us open to more attacks from Al-Qaeda, et al.

4) So why did I like this article? It showed the silliness of the bureaucracy behind our securing defense, everything from coming up with a uniform patriotic media quip to the new rise of formerly obsolete conservative commentators to the chance for the Bush administration to push a further conservative agenda while no one is looking. These are not involved with the act of defense itself, but the side effects on our domestic front. And maybe Moore is just completely off. He very well might be, but, for a balanced society, someone needs to be asking: is this being handled correctly? Otherwise, we are no different than the dictatorial nations we sneered at for being propagandized.

Moore is, obviously, opposed to this conflict, and I think he also does it in an incredibly irreverent manner looking to anger conservatives. Likewise, if you look at my first post, it was done in a similarly provocative and irreverent manner, done on purpose to evoke responses out of you, my "test public." You are all right on cue, and I thank you all for making my mental hypothesis correct.

U2Bama:

1) I agree that the figures are often dubious regarding Iraqi casualties. Even in this one, I tend to believe it is estimated high for dramatics sake. I also hate it when people, from homophobic Christian groups to the Taliban to even Mr. Moore here, bring in "the children." It's a simple device meant to anger people to show that "innocence" is being figuratively "raped," and the inherent manipulativeness makes me gag.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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