Give War a Chance (Commentary on USA's attack)

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You are free to believe that garibaldo. I am free to believe that you are full of shit.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
 
There is no need to suspend melon or anyone else who makes inflammatory or "baiting" comments in a political debate.

This is only a discussion forum and the words here are not going to change U.S. foreign policy or bring the Taliban to its knees.

We, the readers of Interference, are the only people on this planet who give a damn about anything written on this forum.

Debating about politics on a discussion forum is much like arguing politics over the dinner table, or over lunch at the campus commissary.

melon did not make a personal attack on anyone in the forum. His comments weren't personal in any way, shape or form, no matter how much a given forum participant may feel like they were directed at the core of his or her being.

I'm glad melon "baited" us to get a response. This forum would be boring as hell if we all thought alike. I know that's a lame statement, but it seems like it needs to be said.

The first thread I posted in Free Your Mind was entitled "The Problem With Christianity." It could be argued that I was baiting folks with that thread. I didn't pull any punches and I used biting words.

Why? Because I enjoy interesting (and sometimes heated) debate with others. I get tired of banal discussions.

Melon's "baiting" words were utterly innocuous. This is a discussion forum on the Internet.
 
Originally posted by garibaldo:
I meant to say that Maher is a democrat pretending to be a libertarian.
URL=http://www.lp.org/lpnews/0109/maher.html]http://www.lp.org/lpnews/0109/maher.html[/URL]
You're not the only one that thinks that garibaldo. I agree with you. Almost all of my friends agree with you. But you know what? We disagree with melon, so all of us must be wrong, because Heaven knows melon is never wrong.
 
Bama-I am very proud of your near 'diamondaction' in this thread. Somedays you amaze me.
Nice work.
Bubba is the "BraveHeart" of us all..
80's is always righteous.
Ivan is Ivan The Wonderful.
Melon is a 'closet Republican' but hasn't figured it out yet.


And lastly Bill Maher is a predictable ' puppet-panty waist'who I no longer have an interest in veiwing..and another bed fellow of Moore's.
Thank You-

Late-
Diamond

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"..it's about breaking barriers, transcending boundries and conquering great divides"-Bono 1987

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An open letter to Bono from myself www.arizonaautoweb.com/bono/
 
I must have misunderstood the whole Bill Maher controversy.

After the whole thing blew up, Maher stated that with his comments he "only meant that the government has been scared to let the military do its job."

Maher is quite conservative on many issues. And he definitely suffers from "Angry White Male" syndrome, that grand affliction left over from the 1980's.
 
Umm...did I ever mention my beliefs on Bill Maher? I believe he's a liberal too.

Words being put into my mouth. I shouldn't expect any different.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
 
Originally posted by diamondbruno9:
Melon is a 'closet Republican' but hasn't figured it out yet.

It's my guilty pleasure. I like to see workers suppressed, the unorthodox verbally abused, the minorities belittled, and, man, greed is good.

And to ensure I don't get banned again, I'm being sarcastic.

And in case people didn't catch this:

Originally posted by melon:
I'm finished with politics. I wish you all the best.

And that's that. You all have what you want. If 90% of the American public is behind this, who am I to argue? You're obviously right, and I'm obviously wrong.

End of story, and the end of my political debates.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[This message has been edited by melon (edited 10-09-2001).]
 
Michael Moore should be expatriated.

Don't get me wrong. It's not that I think he's ignorant or a complete fool. I don't want to kill him, either. He deserves to live just as every other human who has ever been conceived.

But he shouldn't be living here. You shouldn't reside in a country that you hate--and it's quite obvious he hates this country, just as the terrorists did.

I don't say this just from the above comments, but from an observation of the man over the last several years. If he were president, we'd live in a country of pot-smoking hippies who couldn't care less about the integrity of government or the nation as a whole. Our nation wouldn't last, period. He'd give every cent of the taxpayer money to fund socialistic programs that are meant merely to distribute wealth more evenly. And say goodbye to any shred of national defense.

Just my opinion.
 
Originally posted by mug222:
Umm...now pay attention as I say this for the third time: Official discussions between US representatives and delegates from the Taliban.

Too bad the Taliban didn't try and have Official Discussion with the US before they murdered 6000 innocent people.
rolleyes.gif




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"You're nuts!" <-- when my mom heard my plans for the 3rd leg.

Packing a suitcase for a place...
that has to be believed to be seen


Go baby! -->* www.u2takemehigher.com *<--All New!
 
Originally posted by oliveu2cm:
Too bad the Taliban didn't try and have Official Discussion with the US before they murdered 6000 innocent people.
rolleyes.gif



Amen you are right. The Taliban is just as responsible as Bin Laden. Iraq should be next on the US list and any other state that supports mass Murder.
 
I completely agree with Melon. If only my english wasn't so crappy I would gladly participate more in this discussion... but I feel about the same as Melon, and he always puts it well, one thing I probably couldn't do...
smile.gif

I just wanted to give you some credit I think you deserve.. keep up the good work.

I find it strange that there are so many right-wingers here, in a U2forum. I mean, after all U2's political view are more to the left, and politics is a big part of what U2 is. since I'm a left-winger, I surely could not be a fan of a band which had openly and gladly shared its rightwing politics. howdoes it work for you??
 
Yeah, I am wondering about this too, U2freak. It is sad, but true: 90 percent of the music consumers don?t give a s*** about what their idols say. They don?t care about the message. With U2, it may be only 60 percent, ok, because they are known for their words. But with the rest 39 percent, it stays on a purely intellectual level, like "Ah! I have heard Bono talking about Drop the Debt - oh yes, he is right" so they feel actually better because they have heard this (not because they did something).
So, you know, music is entertainment.

Let?s all be brave Christians, forgiving yah?
Bullet the blue sky!
God save America!
 
I consider myself liberal and a Democrat. Yes, I voted for Gore and I would do so again in a heartbeat, despite the fact that I feel Bush is handling this crisis situation very well.

However, I find myself disagreeing with Moore rather extensively, not only with his latest message, but with many of the messages he wrote during his cross-country trip (as posted by Danospano).

In a previous note, Moore criticized the opening of the stock market. He claimed that the U.S. was so greedy that we couldn't wait to get back to making money. Funny thing to say from a man who mentioned fighting his own deadlines for a book deal...

What irritated me most about Moore's criticism here is that when I heard the clanging of the stockmarket bells (on the NYSE) on Sept. 17th (as rung by NCY firemen), a tear welled up in my eye. I felt pride. I felt honor. I felt conviction. I felt perseverence. We will go on. Anyone who owned stocks clearly lost a fortune that day as the stocks plummeted. This wasn't about money. It was about the U.S. persevering despite this horrible tragedy. This was an honor to those who lost their lives, not an insult. To me, Moore completely missed the point. As Bubba mentioned, it seems Moore is so anti-capitalism that not only can he not see the irony of his own capitalist actions, but he is incapable of recognizing the good that came when the market reopened.

Moore's writing is also rather immature - despite the fact that he does have some brilliant ideas. It seems he lacks the ability to fully or properly express himself. Barring a few token exceptions, whenever I read his works, I feel lacking - as if something is missing. As Melon wisely stated, Moore oftens little to no alternatives. Perhaps this is what is missing. It's easy to complain, but genius comes from those who are able to offer alternatives and then make those alternatives work. Moore simply criticizes - any child can do as much.

Nonetheless, strip away Moore's often poor attempts at humor or irrelevant references and his ultimate points do prevail. Is war the only alternative? Why did we have to attack now? Why not provide more time - especially since there isn't conclusive proof of Bin Laden's guilt? I've read countless articles which state that the counts found against Bin Laden "look good" but would not hold up in court. If this is true, then are we truly attacking the right man, government or country? Why not gather more proof? Why not direct the bombs so that they do the most damage - not so that Taliban can gleefully declare that Bin Laden is still a free man despite our attacks? Why bomb at all? Why not use a series of covert operations to capture this man? And after his capture or death - will this truly solve anything? Why not prepare the U.S. better to prevent further terrorist attacks first? And perhaps most important of all, why not correct our egregious foreign affair mistakes?

Melon's point also stands. It seems that too many people in this country are far too enthusiastic for war or revenge. Anyone that dares say otherwise is considered "anti-American." It seems to me that the MOST American thing a person can do IS to challenge those in power. Those who blindly follow the current thinking are far more suited to serving Bin Laden than living in the U.S.

In summary, Moore, despite his fame, needs to retake "English 201" to improve his writing. Still, he raises valid issues and concerns that should be addressed. And as Americans, we should challenge those in power, for this is what creates true growth.


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[This message has been edited by doctorwho (edited 10-10-2001).]
 
Very well said Dr. Who...
However its your own damn fault that you're a Democrat.

Thank You..
Love -
Diamond

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"..it's about breaking barriers, transcending boundries and conquering great divides"-Bono 1987

---------
An open letter to Bono from myself www.arizonaautoweb.com/bono/
 
Originally posted by oliveu2cm:
Too bad the Taliban didn't try and have Official Discussion with the US before they murdered 6000 innocent people.
rolleyes.gif


This is perhaps the stupidest thing I have read thus far in the thread. Not even mentioning that the Taliban is probably not responsible (guilty, sure, of defending Bin Laden, but not responsible for the heinous act itself)-- not even considering this point, I'm sure I don't have to repeat the old adage (but here's a hint anyway: It begins with "two wrongs..."). Just because the Taliban is a despicable organization, and were we to say even that they must bear a large part of the blame for these crimes, which is itself up for debate, is no reason to condemn thousands in the area to death. I have repeated too many times already that any discussions would most probably prove fruitless, but surely even you can't deny that any recourse that could possibly save innocent lives must be taken. True? Please tell me this is true. This should not be a controversial stand, and it is a very sad fact that it has become one.




[This message has been edited by mug222 (edited 10-09-2001).]
 
mug222:

I think olive was trying to place some of the blame on the rogue regime known as the Taliban. For about 4-5 years, they have been harboring terrorist groups such as Al Qaeda, and considering their domestic lack of resources, it is a reasonable connection to make that they see Al Qaeda as their own little mercenary military unit. It is often hard to believe that a regime that is so anti-U.S./anti-Western culture could have a bad bone in their body, but these little bastards are nothing BUT bad bones.

~U2Alabama
 
Of course, U2Bama, I agree that their is nothing redemptive about the Taliban, and in all likelyhood the terrible organization supports Al Qaeda. I have already agrred with this.
My point is that just because the Taliban supports Al Qaeda does not by any means mean that the people of Afghanistan; indeed, a large majority supports the Northern Alliance! Since these people therefore are free from ALL guilt, why should we not take all measures possible to ensure their safety; and yes, if that means negotiating with the Taliban, so be it. It is merely a means to an end and I have no qualms about discussion with them, if it could bring even the slightest bit of security to the people of Afghanistan.
 
We knew all along that they would only turn him over to a Shar'ia Islamic court, likely one that interprets the law that no Muslim can be punished for killing a non-Muslim. I hate to sound cynical and pessimistic, but what would have been the point in such a chat session? If you extend an olive branch to a death adder, it will strike your wrist.

~U2Alabama
 
All I am saying is that I feel that the process of negotiation, even if it does result in nothing, is a meaningful part of the aftermath of the attack. It most likely would lead to the same result (i.e. bombing of Kabul, including our own U.N. agency- oops!), but there is something to be said for official discussions, no matter what the result.
 
Just to clarify something: I would have responded to all of your attacks and questions had I not been banned from this forum. I recently regained access to club.
I wholeheartedly disagree with a lot of things that were said in reference to the letter by Michael Moore, but since the topic has died off, I'm not going to perpetuate the anger in the forum...(for now)
 
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