For all the selling out talk, and even without it, it has to be said....

[LJT]

^^Your wrong....but nobody is going to agree on anything since it is all opinion...the thread could go to another 20 pages without any agreements or conclusions....i basically like everything U2 have done....i don't know why we can't just sit back and enjoy the music a bit rather than disect and rip everything apart...its gets dull after a bit....ahh well my words will not change anything though

 

[starvinmarvin]

Well... actually, overall I place more importance on the music, not the lyrics! But Pop is musically stellar!!! It's lyrically and musically beyond it's time! ATYCLB is very safe/conservative musically and apart from a few highlights like BD, Walk On, Kite and NY has mediocre lyrics.

Pop was ahead of its time? What? Zooropa was, but Pop sure as heck isn't. It's way more conservative than Zooropa, or even Joshua Tree, for that matter. I'll take a great "safe" song over a mediocre "experimental" song any day of the week. Evidently most other people in the world do as well (not to mention the band).

 

[Chizip]

wow its Michael Griffiths

 

[cobl04]

Some people think Vertigo and Beautiful Day are sell-outs, but I see it a different way. If "selling out" is the band being themselves, and writing songs that resonate with as many people as possible, then they are guilty as charged. But that's not what selling out is. Selling out is compromising yourself and your music to make money. U2 has never done this.

Thank you. People, take note of this. Just because you don't like the new stuff doesn't mean you can wreck it for everyone else by constantly saying that it is U2 by the numbers. I feel sorry for the people that have this clouded view.

 

[Zoots]

^^Your wrong....but nobody is going to agree on anything since it is all opinion...the thread could go to another 20 pages without any agreements or conclusions....i basically like everything U2 have done....i don't know why we can't just sit back and enjoy the music a bit rather than disect and rip everything apart...its gets dull after a bit....ahh well my words will not change anything though

It actually makes things more interesting if you can see your favorite band for their brilliance as well as their faults! Then, there's something to discuss about... something to argue about.. spices up the conversation. Now, I can't deny that I 'do like' ATYCLB and HTDAAB more than many other contemporary records and bands. But compared to their earlier stuff, they HAVE faltered a bit IMO.

 

[namkcuR]

Pop is the lyrical zenith of Bono/U2's career. The only other record that can compete is AB. Bono is more sincere and from the buring, gut-wrenching, bitter soul in songs like Mofo, If God, Gone, Please, and WUDM than anywhere else in the U2 catalog save for 'One' and 'Acrobat'. If God and WUDM are scathing lyrical commentaries on God and whether He exists or not, and why He lets shit happen. Mofo and Gone are candidates for Bono's most personal confessional ever. Staring At The Sun and Please are some of Bono's finest political pieces, Please also being one of U2's best ever songs. DYFL is just dirty and brilliant. LNOE tells a story in and of itself to which there are different interpretations. Etc etc etc.

I'm not saying that ATYCLB is lyrically bad, I actually think it's underrated in that department. But lyrically nothing beats Pop.

And musically U2 did things sonically on Pop they never did before or after except for maybe AB. The music is lush and creates soundscapes, worlds to explore with your headphones.

 

[the rockin edge]

Pop is the lyrical zenith of Bono/U2's career. The only other record that can compete is AB. Bono is more sincere and from the buring, gut-wrenching, bitter soul in songs like Mofo, If God, Gone, Please, and WUDM than anywhere else in the U2 catalog save for 'One' and 'Acrobat'. If God and WUDM are scathing lyrical commentaries on God and whether He exists or not, and why He lets shit happen. Mofo and Gone are candidates for Bono's most personal confessional ever. Staring At The Sun and Please are some of Bono's finest political pieces, Please also being one of U2's best ever songs. DYFL is just dirty and brilliant. LNOE tells a story in and of itself to which there are different interpretations. Etc etc etc.

I'm not saying that ATYCLB is lyrically bad, I actually think it's underrated in that department. But lyrically nothing beats Pop.

 

[IrishDawg]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: For all the selling out talk, and even without it, it has to be said....

Fair enough. It's just that the Edge could be doing so many more innovative things with his guitar and instead he plays his signature riffs. IMO, you should never be satisfied and rest on your laurels. Whatever happened to the phrase 'dream out loud'??? Buried under the 'biggest band in the world' tag I guess.

I have never heard Edge do anything with his guitar like what he did in Vertigo. It sounds like a riff that AC/DC would have come up with. It also has a mix of pop and blues to it at the same time. Really brilliant in my opinion. Also All Because of You sounds a lot like a Beatles song, thanks to Edge's simple chord progression plus the main riff. I think he's still messing around with new sounds, but trying not to be someone else at the same time. There are so many great guitarist out there now, it's hard to come up with stuff that no one's done before.

 

[LJT]

It actually makes things more interesting if you can see your favorite band for their brilliance as well as their faults! Then, there's something to discuss about... something to argue about.. spices up the conversation. Now, I can't deny that I 'do like' ATYCLB and HTDAAB more than many other contemporary records and bands. But compared to their earlier stuff, they HAVE faltered a bit IMO.

I don't I know U2 have their faults...i just find it a very tedious thing to try and extricate every last one of them....sitting there trying to figure who they could make something better kinda detracts from the listening experience for me...everything by u2 to me is pretty much on an even level except for Achtung and The Joshua Tree...i know that HTDAAB is overproduced just as much U2 didnt finish Pop...they are interesting enough to discuss...but there is no discussion when no one is open to have their opinions changed as they already have a set view on something....

 

[Zoots]

Pop is the lyrical zenith of Bono/U2's career. The only other record that can compete is AB. Bono is more sincere and from the buring, gut-wrenching, bitter soul in songs like Mofo, If God, Gone, Please, and WUDM than anywhere else in the U2 catalog save for 'One' and 'Acrobat'. If God and WUDM are scathing lyrical commentaries on God and whether He exists or not, and why He lets shit happen. Mofo and Gone are candidates for Bono's most personal confessional ever. Staring At The Sun and Please are some of Bono's finest political pieces, Please also being one of U2's best ever songs. DYFL is just dirty and brilliant. LNOE tells a story in and of itself to which there are different interpretations. Etc etc etc.

I'm not saying that ATYCLB is lyrically bad, I actually think it's underrated in that department. But lyrically nothing beats Pop.

And musically U2 did things sonically on Pop they never did before or after except for maybe AB. The music is lush and creates soundscapes, worlds to explore with your headphones.

Thank you.

 

[starvinmarvin]

I guess that a lot of people latch onto the fact that Pop has "dark" lyrics, and think that somehow it makes them "deeper" than lyrics on the last two albums, which are spiritually uplifting. However, I don't believe that dark is necessarily better than uplifting, and in U2's case they are better at the uplifting part. Just look at Streets or Pride (or even Beautiful Day) - these songs are more powerful and emotive than anything on Pop.

This is just my theory, but I think that somewhere in early 90's around the time of grunge and Nirvana music changed, and people began to think that you had to dwell in the darker things in life in order to be an artist. In other words, art has to be self-absorbed and depressing - the tortured artist. U2 kind of fell into this trap on Pop. Most other hard rock bands are also depressing and self-absorbed because they are "serious" rock bands too. Now U2 has returned to making positive music, and it has really resonated with people. That's why the new songs connect, and why they are better than Pop songs.

 

[Zoots]

This is just my theory, but I think that somewhere in early 90's around the time of grunge and Nirvana music changed, and people began to think that you had to dwell in the darker things in life in order to be an artist. In other words, art has to be self-absorbed and depressing - the tortured artist. U2 kind of fell into this trap on Pop. Most other hard rock bands are also depressing and self-absorbed because they are "serious" rock bands too. Now U2 has returned to making positive music, and it has really resonated with people. That's why the new songs connect, and why they are better than Pop songs.

You may be on to something here about liking songs by tortured artists! I DO love music in general from the 90s.. grunge et all.... And Pink Floyd and Radiohead who can be depressing too.

But U2 made plenty of serious (some depressing) music in the 80s though... MOTD, One Tree Hill, Exit, RTSS, Bad etc.

 

[starvinmarvin]

You may be on to something here about liking songs by tortured artists! I DO love music in general from the 90s.. grunge et all.... And Pink Floyd and Radiohead who can be depressing too.

But U2 made plenty of serious (some depressing) music in the 80s though... MOTD, One Tree Hill, Exit, RTSS, Bad etc.

Yes, U2 tackled some serious subject matter in the 80's, but there was something different about how they approached it. Like SBS, for example, which has some graphic lyrics but overall the tone is hopeful, like there was faith that things could change. Same with Bad, or some of the other songs you named. These songs were still uplifting.

Don't get me wrong, I like "depressing" music like Radiohead too, but I prefer U2's uplifting 80's and 00's output over their mid 90's material.

 

[LJT]

You may be on to something here about liking songs by tortured artists! I DO love music in general from the 90s.. grunge et all.... And Pink Floyd and Radiohead who can be depressing too.

But U2 made plenty of serious (some depressing) music in the 80s though... MOTD, One Tree Hill, Exit, RTSS, Bad etc.

I think that is the point he is making though in that the 90s have kinda turned you against the idea of U2 doing just something dumb and silly like Elevation but is really fun..

 

[namkcuR]

Yes, U2 tackled some serious subject matter in the 80's, but there was something different about how they approached it. Like SBS, for example, which has some graphic lyrics but overall the tone is hopeful, like there was faith that things could change. Same with Bad, or some of the other songs you named. These songs were still uplifting.

Don't get me wrong, I like "depressing" music like Radiohead too, but I prefer U2's uplifting 80's and 00's output over their mid 90's material.

Explain to me exactly where in 'Exit' there is any kind of faith or hope.

 

[Layton]

It's so funny that people argue about Pop vs. ATYCLB/HTDAAB. These 3 albums are U2's greatest thematic trilogy. Pop is the anti-U2 album. It's full of emptiness, despair and hopelessness. ATYCLB is their finding the inner strength to change your perspective album. They're not wondering where the 'dead man' is to change things for them. Basically, we can call it a 'stop and smell the roses' album. Easy to say, but hard to do. HTDAAB takes things a step further and is fully open-hearted and embracing of the world. It's full of a 'doing' spirit and displays this trait loud and proud. The boldness and bravery of HTDAAB cannot be underestimated. HTDAAB is more than a musical accomplishment, it's a life accomplishment. The journey from the 'mole in the hole' characterizing the Pop album to the regained innosense and purity of HTDAAB's characterizations make these three albums inextricably linked.

As for the '80's vs. 00's comparisons, don't get me started. JT is an album full of an urge to run. HTDAAB is the exact opposite. It stands its ground and faces its pains straight up. If I didn't know any better, I'd say that Bono and the boys have gone through some sort of therapy.

 

[EPandAmerica]

Pop is the lyrical zenith of Bono/U2's career. The only other record that can compete is AB. Bono is more sincere and from the buring, gut-wrenching, bitter soul in songs like Mofo, If God, Gone, Please, and WUDM than anywhere else in the U2 catalog save for 'One' and 'Acrobat'. If God and WUDM are scathing lyrical commentaries on God and whether He exists or not, and why He lets shit happen. Mofo and Gone are candidates for Bono's most personal confessional ever. Staring At The Sun and Please are some of Bono's finest political pieces, Please also being one of U2's best ever songs. DYFL is just dirty and brilliant. LNOE tells a story in and of itself to which there are different interpretations. Etc etc etc.

I'm not saying that ATYCLB is lyrically bad, I actually think it's underrated in that department. But lyrically nothing beats Pop.

And musically U2 did things sonically on Pop they never did before or after except for maybe AB. The music is lush and creates soundscapes, worlds to explore with your headphones.

I this post.

 

[starvinmarvin]

Explain to me exactly where in 'Exit' there is any kind of faith or hope.

I didn't say there was any kind of faith or hope in Exit. I didn't actually mention Exit at all. If I didn't know any better, I'd swear you were trying to start a debate of some kind

 

[Yahweh]

U2 themselves have stated that Joshua Tree is the album that has the most deep lyrics and Achtung Baby is the one that sounds best music wise but this was before the last 2 albums came out.

 

[starvinmarvin]

U2 themselves have stated that Joshua Tree is the album that has the most deep lyrics and Achtung Baby is the one that sounds best music wise but this was before the last 2 albums came out.

Really? That's my precise opinion on the matter

 

[U2girl]

I'm glad most fans and critics don't freak out at U2 sounding like U2 and trying out a new genre.