Eminem to release album one week before U2 - bad news?

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The meaning of music, later in time?

I don't get that? When, the Beatle's sing, "She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah..., what was the meaning or relevance? I'm thinking the words relevance and impact are just too closely intertwined/ synonomous to be treated differently.

To be honest I could makes stuff up on why Eminem's music is relevant and they would probably be true to a degree...

Eminem relevance is crossing racial barriers, topically changing/ introducing what hip hop could be about outside of what's heard in the mainstream, satirical rap style, or the changing of attitudes towards misogynistic lyrics. LOL.

Or how about the U2 fan point that is always mentioned when referring to U2's musical relevance... "U2 writes stuff that I've haven't really heard before in the mainstream."
 
U2Girl, usually I'm right with you, but on the topic of Eminem being relevant, or riding a wave I have to disagree with you. I am not a big Eminem fan, nor do I own any of his CDs. I agree with you about his lyrical content, which is very misogynstic and disturbing, but the fact is he writes catchy songs that are extremely popular.

My comparing him to Paul McCartney was not a comparison of how great Eminem is, but the fact he can produce songs that slip into the mainstream and are considered the class of his genre. McCartney is definitely a living legend and deservedly so, however he has always been stigmatized as a soft rock songwriter. Eminem, has an opposite stigma but is respected none-the-less as the star of Hip Hop.

Whether Eminem is relevant, or will stand the test of time is a matter of time, but my guess is his CDs will be something that future generations will purchase as "Old School Hip Hop" (much like U2 is now consider classic rock in some circles).

I am a casual fan of his music and genre, but he is the biggest star in his genre. Whether you like that or not it is a fact. While I don't think he's going away, the fickleness of fans doesn't guarantee him large sales with this next album. We'll see.
 
I didn't say he should be rapping in his 40's and 50's, I'm just saying let's see how he does when the latest rap and hip hop craze fades away - remember how Britney was popular and she's not really that way anymore. I think 3 albums aren't enough to say he's a legend or something like that. I already saw interviews with him where he said he'll stop making albums and go to producing others.

Well, the meaning of someone's music after their career is over - that's relevance to me. Since you brought up the Beatles, their albums Revolver, Sgt Pepper, White album and Abbey road are all classics now and their music is legendary decades after they stopped making music. That is relevance to me, or, what happened to U2 in the US after 9/11 when their music's message resonated with people.
I don't see Eminem pulling anything like that off. Again, I say he is lucky to have Dre and MTV.

Reggie: well I agree he's the biggest star in his genre, but let's let time decide what he's worth.
I know, people pick apart McCartney especially lyricswise but I say it worked great because on the other hand there was Lennon's more traditional rock lyricism and they complimented each other - I'm not a fan of the old "Lennon was the leader" theory. They deserve credit equally IMO.
 
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U2, greatest band since the beatles, will be releasing an album of real quality music but won't reach No. 1 because cop out artists
who dont make real music such as destiny child and eminem will sell more albums.

Ahhh, the state of music in 21st century, it just keeps on going downhill.........
 
intedomine said:
U2, greatest band since the beatles, will be releasing an album of real quality music but won't reach No. 1 because cop out artists
who dont make real music such as destiny child and eminem will sell more albums.

Ahhh, the state of music in 21st century, it just keeps on going downhill.........
Click to expand...

word.....
 
I can't get over McCartney, Page/Plant, Stones, Hendrix, Cream and Clash being mentioned in the same post/thread like Eminem.
 
there's a significant difference for me. while the beatles (and others of the kind like u2) made music with worldwide appeal and impact, eminem (and the whole hip-hop scene) is more a product designed for urban american teenagers, even if that represents millions of records sold in america.

Does anybody know what happened to that 50 cent guy in the reading festival? From this side of the atlantic, hip-hop is far from making the mainstream. Repeating what i said before, in europe (and i believe in the rest of the world) eminem will have no chance on the charts against u2.
 
exactly, U2 will absolutely DOMINATE the rest of the world. America is just so intwined with this rap and r + B bullshit that U2 really don't have much hope in breaking No. 1. The rest of the world is less resistant to this American crap that's why U2 will suceed worldwide.

GO VERTIGO GO!!
 
Why is it that to praise U2 all other music has to be 'bullshit', 'worthless' and done by 'fake artists'?

:confused:

*has Eminem's The Marshall Mathers LP and likes Destiny's Child*
 
all other music?? huh? God no. There is tonnes of great music out there, I'm just saying the majority of American mainstream music is bullshit. I don't need to go into any detail its all fairly self explanitary.
And I definately do not call all music I don't like 'bullshit.' For example, I don't like classical or opera music but I can bloody well see why that can be great music and is admired by many people. I don't like it, but I respect it very much. Same with country music and blues. I don't like it but I heavily respect those genres of music. As far as the mainstream pop\rap\crap goes, it IS BULLSHIT! It's shouldn't even be classified as music. See my point?
 
My comment was not specifically aimed at you (although it did prompt me to post it after all the other comments previously in this thread).
It seems that every release that may sell as good (or more) than U2's is suddenly considered crap music (and thus not worthy to compete with U2). I happen to think that mainstraim rap is not bullshit, as there are some good mainstream rap/pop/R&B artists. And yes, Eminem is one of them. So is OutKast (who outsold U2 when ATYCLB was released). And Destiny's Child can do little wrong in my book (but hey, that's why they're my guilty pleasure).
Yes, there is much crap out there (not just in rap and R&B, but also in rock, blues, country, etc.). But mainstream success does not equal crap.

C ya!

Marty

P.S. Your logic in your first post is a bit flawed, I see now. If the rest of the world is less resistant to the so-called crap, then that 'crap' would be an even bigger success in the rest of the world, instead of U2 having more success. :p
 
I guess its how you define music then. If monotous repetitive idiophome bashing and dull lyrics referring to how 'high' someone was last night, (or some other drug related lyrics) is how you define music, which lets face it, is most of rap music, then thats your own choice which I obviously can't debate.
lol i can't help but twinge when I see 'rap and R&B' and 'artists' in the same sentence. But hey, if that's music to you I got nothing to say.

BTW on a completely different topic, does anyone here like Feeder or Ash?? Just curious.

GO VERTIGO GO!!
 
Angela Harlem said:
I love this thread. It has become an artist half this forum doesn't like, versus an album none of us have even heard.
:up:


:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

:lol:
Thanks for the perspective, Anna.
:wink:
 
AussieU2fanman, I totally agree with you, though it seems that here in Australia, a lot of people are trying to be 'cool' and are copying the US by buying this rap bullshit. Rap should not count as music. I fail to see the talent in talking fast. I can do that in my SLEEP (really, I've been known to). Record me talking in my sleep, put it on a CD, and it probably wouldn't sound much different to Eminem ... OK, so maybe I'd talk about more sensible topics, but it's not as if rappers are easily understood anyway.

What a worthless genre and what a waste of valuable materials making the CDs.

There's my rant for the day.
 
U2girl said:
I can't get over McCartney, Page/Plant, Stones, Hendrix, Cream and Clash being mentioned in the same post/thread like Eminem.
Click to expand...

So hip hop isn't real music, you're saying? I believe it is. I've mentioned in my post what Eminem has done over the past couple of years, the influence he has, the acclaim he has gotten, etc. I've mentioned the names of those legends b/c in relation to Eminem b/c of

(1) the fact that some of those guys barely put out three albums (specifically Cream, Hendrix, & the Clash) and now are considered legends. The idea that music legends need to have a long career or many albums is a false idea. Not true at all and those bands are examples.

(2) Some of those guys/ legends have faded away to a degree. They are no longer relevant with their current work. Page, McCartney, the Stones either put out stuff that gets little fanfare now. Page's strongest stuff came from one decade, really ('69-'79). Pretty much one decade. If Page doesn't put anything out in the 80's and 90's, does that make him irrelevant? No. His work in that decade was great enough that he could live off of it. Same with the Clash, Hendrix, etc. Eminem's work since 1997 has been that huge as well. You cannot deny the effect he has had on hip hop and pop culture.

So mentioning Hendrix, the Clash, etc. with Eminem makes sense.
 
bedouin fire said:
there's a significant difference for me. while the beatles (and others of the kind like u2) made music with worldwide appeal and impact, eminem (and the whole hip-hop scene) is more a product designed for urban american teenagers, even if that represents millions of records sold in america.

Does anybody know what happened to that 50 cent guy in the reading festival? From this side of the atlantic, hip-hop is far from making the mainstream. Repeating what i said before, in europe (and i believe in the rest of the world) eminem will have no chance on the charts against u2.
Click to expand...

LOL... hip hop is actually got a great appeal in Asia. LOL. But of course in your anglo-centric view that doesn't matter.
 
AussieU2fanman said:
I guess its how you define music then. If monotous repetitive idiophome bashing and dull lyrics referring to how 'high' someone was last night, (or some other drug related lyrics) is how you define music, which lets face it, is most of rap music, then thats your own choice which I obviously can't debate.
lol i can't help but twinge when I see 'rap and R&B' and 'artists' in the same sentence. But hey, if that's music to you I got nothing to say.

BTW on a completely different topic, does anyone here like Feeder or Ash?? Just curious.

GO VERTIGO GO!!
Click to expand...

LOL... you know, that description could fit a lot of Ramones songs...

LOL... its great to see you think way, b/c I feel you and me think alike. I think a lot of rock tends to be stuff that's musically repetive, filled over distorted yet simplistic riffs, with lyrics that just whine incessantly about how the singer (if you even call it "professional" singing) is mad that his mommy didn't change his diapers properly when he was child, thus causing massive depression for him in his pathetic life.


Seriously, you must think techno sucks too.
 
ANother good call Axver, i agree with just about everything u see most of the time....saw some CHINGY guy on rage this morning.....its crap typical rap/rnb bullcrap.....but itll sell well sadly...

australia is in a terrible musical state at the moment, even the rock n roll, its all garage rock and punk wannabes, cept for maybe eskimo joe....
 
Flying FuManchu said:


So hip hop isn't real music, you're saying? I believe it is. I've mentioned in my post what Eminem has done over the past couple of years, the influence he has, the acclaim he has gotten, etc. I've mentioned the names of those legends b/c in relation to Eminem b/c of

(1) the fact that some of those guys barely put out three albums (specifically Cream, Hendrix, & the Clash) and now are considered legends. The idea that music legends need to have a long career or many albums is a false idea. Not true at all and those bands are examples.

(2) Some of those guys/ legends have faded away to a degree. They are no longer relevant with their current work. Page, McCartney, the Stones either put out stuff that gets little fanfare now. Page's strongest stuff came from one decade, really ('69-'79). Pretty much one decade. If Page doesn't put anything out in the 80's and 90's, does that make him irrelevant? No. His work in that decade was great enough that he could live off of it. Same with the Clash, Hendrix, etc. Eminem's work since 1997 has been that huge as well. You cannot deny the effect he has had on hip hop and pop culture.

So mentioning Hendrix, the Clash, etc. with Eminem makes sense.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying hip hop isn't a legitimate music genre. I also think at its early stages it was more social topics charged lyricwise than it is now.

1) Some legends make more albums and some make less. It's the music that has to stand the test of time. Cream, Hendrix and Clash all did it, will Eminem?

2) It's great if a legend is relevant for several decades (see U2). Page would be a legend even if he didn't put out a single note after Led Zeppelin stopped, simply based on his work in that band. I don't know why Clash stopped, but Hendrix might have put out lots more of music had it not been for his early death.
No matter if a band stops or keeps going after their biggest years, if their music is legendary, it will keep them relevant.

So in that sense, it does not make sense comparing Eminem to those people. BTW, those bands and Hendrix influenced many musicians with their music. How many rappers will be influenced by Eminem?
 
Flying FuManchu said:
Eminem is a sex symbol
Click to expand...

Oh, sweet, merciful Jesus, are you serious?

He's a decent lyricist, he's not really hip hop anyway, and he'll hit number one, but he's one stunningly ugly mofo. :wink:
 
You know whar emminem can go...... well umm i am not ganna describe it cos lots of bad language in there hehehehehe. I hate emminem and I hate for what he stands for and i hate the fact that there are so many people out there who buy his album. I think since U2 is 10 to the power of infinity times better then emminem in the long run U2 will outsell emminem by a big shot even if emminem reaches number one. And come on people don't forget i think in a few years emminem will come and go but U2 so far has lasted for more then 2 decades and I am sure they will be around still even when emminem is long forgoten :) Can you tell i HATE emminem??? :p

Nico
 
some of the posts in this forum are surprising me because I dont understand them at all, but it has become a cool thread. Axver, you responded to my post by saying high school kids dont listen to u2 that much and tried to equate his popularity in the states to australia....WHAT???? Eminem has almost every white kid in America dressing and acting like him. Go to Billboard.com and see his album sales, some one is buying them. I dont think Ive run into one high school or college student here in DC (Im in college) that doesn't own or have a burnt copy of an Eminem album. Maybe hes not as big down under, but hes HUGE here. And secondly, even though i dont listen to hip hop much anymore, you cant say its not music. The mainstream has started to play hip hop continously and its controlling a lot of things now, but the hip hop that gets airplay is HORRIBLE. CHINGY is garbage!!! But there are great MCs out there that dont get publicity because they arent about the album sales. In the mid 90s, rappers that were in the mainstream (Biggie, 2Pac) were amazingly talented, but thats not happening anymore. So while I agree hip hop has taken a downhill and I dont particularly like it as much, it doesnt make sense to wrap up the whole genre as garbage. And lastly, the people that think Emimen is not "that great" of a rapper, he is the best artist in the game and is untouchable lyrics wise. You know this because every rapper will tell you hes the best. And even though Dr. Dre is the best producer in rap all-time, if you look at the notes in Eminems last CD, see how many tracks Dre produced. Only a couple, Eminem produces most of his own stuff and makes a lot of his own beats. I'm not even that big of an Emimen fan....if you dont like rap and you dont like him, I have no problem at all. But if you listen to rap music and think that he isnt good....I dont know what to tell you.
 
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it's not important who's gonna be the number 1 in the charts, not important at all, we know U2's music is made up of high quality and blood of excellent musicians, eminem....hu? what's his relationship with MUSIC??
 
chart position isnt important, it is about the music. But this post's whole point is to discuss chart position, which is why we are doing so.
 
u2's better than eminem

i dont see the big deal in reaching the no 1 position
 
With the amount of fans U2 has I highly doubt they will do badly in the charts.
I'm not so worried about how well they do, I just want to trek down to HMV and have it in my hands the moment it comes out :D
 
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