Eminem to release album one week before U2 - bad news?

[Tintin]

I could see U2 having a great album and not selling as well as many think. There just aren't enough young people that are into the idea of a band of 40-somethings even if the music is great. Maybe I am cynical about it, but that's the way we were in high school. Nirvana, Janes Addiction, Smashing Pumpkins, Pearl Jam over ANY of the old stuff, if only because it was a culture thing. A generational thing. Well, we liked U2 of course and even then back in the early 90's some people thought they had "had their time".

Very true. I agree that U2 is up against a lot. I still think that they can become big again, but there are...prerequisites, shall we say:

1. Bono. It?s safe to say that all of us are more into the music than the image, but for U2 to reach people in my age group, I think Bono would need to become slimmer. Ironically, for him to get bigger he needs to get smaller, if U2 really want to have a very strong comeback. Again, for those of you who are more sane this might not be very important.
2. Fresh style.
3. Great video and press stuff.
4. Most importantly, a great album. Amazing what those things can do for you.

When Beautiful Day came out, people in my school were singing it in the halls. But while the fan base became younger, the long wait has made it important to treat this as a comeback and not a continuation. At the end of the day, I just want great songs, but it would be nice to see more fans come into the fold.

 

[MrBrau1]

eminem is a terd.

Well said!

 

[TheFirstBigW]

I'd be worried not so much about album sales but about the fact that Eminem will be dominating so much of the media's attention (especially MTV) around that time that U2's new album may not get as much attention as it deserves.

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

People, people, the new U2 album will most definitely debut in the top 5, maybe top 3 albums when it charts. Eminem will be #1 for a week because he's young and relevant. U2 will be #1 because the music will rule over everything.

I guarantee you if "Vertigo" the single charts well then U2 will have a strong album debut.

U2Girl is right, U2 sold its most albums in an opening week back in 2000, and there is no reason to believe that they won't top that with this album.

The success of ATYCLB makes this album one of the most highly anticipated U2 albums of all time, and I guarantee you all that this album will chart in the upper echelon of the Billboard Charts.

U2DMFan...sorry to disappoint you, but the "Pop Kids" will be along for the ride again.

 

[STING2]

With respect to chart position (Billboard):

Soundscan goes off of shipped units, so it doesn't really matter how many actually copies are sold at the record store counters, it will be how many copies are ordered by the big music chains.

My guess is that Eminem's pre-order will dwarf U2's. Maybe in 3-4 years, U2's new album might eventually outsell Eminem or anyone else for that matter, but they will be playing catch-up.

Granted, U2 will do just fine in their first few weeks, but Eminem really has more cross-over appeal to that all-important teeny-high school "buy whatever is trendy" group. That's generally considered to be the largest music buying population in the U.S. Need look no further than Billboard's album and singles charts for that verification.

What Mikal said......

And really, who gives a shit? I hope U2's album debuts at #15 and the MTV crowd writes it off. I like having a more loyal, non-dilluted fanbase rather than a slightly bigger mass of morons who are just their to get the good tickets before I do. Fuck 'em.

The new album could not even chart, critics pan it, never get any bullshit MTV play and as long as I like it, well that's all that matters to me. And that should be all that matters to you. Who cares what the image of the bands success is?

U2 don't need the stamp of approval from a fickle music buying public that ships almost 2 million units of Backstreet Boys or other disposable pop music in one week.

It basically doesn't matter, unless you just like seeing U2 at the top of the charts. I don't see anything wrong with that, just saying it doesn't really amount to anything. As long as the music is good, that's all that really matters. I can live without seeing U2 on TRL or Vh1 or the other bullshit spectacles, even the Grammy's have become a joke.

I hope they tone down the marketing, but I know they won't.

With respect to Soundscan and the Billboard charts, Soundscan tracks sales to consumers in record store all across the United States. It tracks over 95% of all albums sold in any given week in the United States. The billboard chart is determined by actual album sales to consumers as tracked by soundscan.

RIAA, is the organization that tracks shipments to stores. The Billboard 200 does not use RIAA or shipment data in order to determine chart position. But, how much an album has shipped is reported after the first 30 days after release.

 

[U2DMfan]

U2DMFan...sorry to disappoint you, but the "Pop Kids" will be along for the ride again.

Well, that doesn't really bother me so much. My preference is that they didn't pander to those audiences with marketing, but they will and I'm okay with that. And hell, if kids like the music, then so be it. I'm not so selfish that I believe that 'certain' fans shouldn't like U2, even if it's only one MTV song. I just find it easier to get tickets online when you don't have to compete with kids who just want to see "the guys who sing Beautiful Day" .

 

[U2DMfan]

With respect to Soundscan and the Billboard charts, Soundscan tracks sales to consumers in record store all across the United States. It tracks over 95% of all albums sold in any given week in the United States. The billboard chart is determined by actual album sales to consumers as tracked by soundscan.

I knew that the Billboard chart is determined by Soundscan, but apparently I had it wrong on how they actually figure sales totals. I wasn't thinking of the RIAA, just had it wrong.

 

[u2ulysses]

With respect to chart position (Billboard):

Soundscan goes off of shipped units, so it doesn't really matter how many actually copies are sold at the record store counters, it will be how many copies are ordered by the big music chains.

This is incorrect. You are thinking of RIAA certification, not SoundScan.

SoundScan counts the number of copies sold at stores - hence the term "scan" as it scans items bought and tallies them.

RIAA certification (Gold, Platinum, Diamond) is by units shipped to stores.

In the end, usually the two numbers are pretty close. Sometimes there is an album - like "POP" - that is only certified as Platinum, but has actually sold far more than 1 million copies. But as 2 million copies were not shipped to stores, it can only be certified as Platinum and not 2x Platinum.

ATYCLB is certified as 4x Platinum, and has sold more than 4 million copies to actual consumers.

As for the new album, while being #1 is great, "POP" debuted at #1 and quickly fell thereafter. In contrast, ATYCLB debuted at #3, even though it outsold "POP" that first week (by a substantial margin - ATYCLB was U2's best SoundScan era debut ever). ATYCLB continued to linger on the charts, while "POP" fell rather quickly. So being #1 isn't that important. What's crucial is how long U2's new album can remain in the upper echelons of the charts. If they can linger in the Top 50 for a while (6 months or more), the new album will do great.

 

[sue4u2]

In the Sept 16th issue of Rolling Stone there is no mention of Eminem's album coming out in Nov. Unless RS just doesn't have the info it list Ludacris and Black Eyed Peas out on the 16th, U2 (tentative) and Gwen Stefani out on the 23rd. No mention of Emimem.

 

[sue4u2]

so I go to Emimem's website and it say's his album Encore will be in store's on the 16th. I stand corrected. I think...

 

[RademR]

Sorry guys, but there is NO WAY that u2 will outsell Eminem in their first week release, Em will hold #1 on the album charts for at least a month in the US. He's got almost every high school kid buying his records. Maybe u2 can overtake him after a few weeks and I definetly think everyone else won't be able to touch them, but Eminem is huge. I'm definetly going to pick up his CD, ya, I think he goes too far with some of the things he says, but I'm a fan of good hip hop (theres not much left), and he is a great MC. In a perfect world, u2 would rule the charts til the end of 2004.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

Eminem will rule...

 

[Axver]

He's got almost every high school kid buying his records.

Rubbish. I'd say less than a quarter of the students in my high school own an Eminem album, and I imagine that would roughly translate to the USA too. Furthermore, let's have a look at the potential markets. Eminem mainly appeals to the teenage crowd, and (no offense intended to any fans) the lower class of people. U2 has a far more diverse audience and appeals to the thinking crowd. I think the sheer diversity and volume of U2 fans will mean they will have a good chance of beating Eminem.

 

[Diemen]

Did I actually just read a post suggesting Bono slim down a bit for the sake of album sales?

Wow.

Just.....wow.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

Eminem is a sex symbol, lyrical genius to many of his peers (outside of hip hop as well), an artist with the most popular or 2nd most popular genre in America, an infamous reputation, the great white hope, young and rebel-ish, creator of classic albums (whether you like them or not) and still adored by the TRL crowd.... Even people like Bono, Elton John, Daniel Day Lewis seem to like the guy...

Eminem will rule the charts, which is unfortunate for U2...

 

[U2girl]

He'd be nothing without dr Dre's beats.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

Just like U2 wouldn't be anything without Eno and Lanois? Eminem gets love b/c he is actually considered a good rapper, but the beats help.

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

True U2Girl, but Em is a white guy in a predominantly black man's world, and he's lived the hard life and now raps about it. That has a lot of crossover appeal to a lot of disaffected youth.

My wife loves his singles (but would never dream of buying one of his CDs), so that lend credence to your comment. He is very melodic and catchy with his songs...so give the boy some credit.

But Em ruling the charts for a month??? Nah, not during this season where Superstars are dropping albums like bombs on Baghdad. I'm sure U2's album may see some time at the top before years end.

 

[U2girl]

Flying Fu-Manchu: not really the same. U2 were getting more famous with their albums even before Unforgettable fire, Eno and Lanois may have given them a new dimension to their sound but it was their songwriting skills and Bono's stage presence/lyrics that made them what they are today. (only 3 of their albums were recorded with both Eno and Lanois)

If I recall right, I watched a documentary on Eminem and he made an album way before he met dr Dre and it didn't do anything saleswise (he also said numerous times Dre saved his life). He meets dr Dre, MTV hypes him and BAM he's a star. I'm not saying he is not a capable wordsmith (to put it like that), but Dre gave him the sound that really boosted him and he owes MTV big. Of course the TRL youth loves him because of his "tell it like is" year-long shtick.
Lyrical genious? I don't take him seriously because I think a lot of what he's saying is just provocation to get a rise out of people& a pose for the media, but I don't see anything that special about him, he made a career out of picking on other musicians. I also heard that serious rap/hip hop listeners don't listen to him because he is too commercial.

Isn't it funny how one white guy is bigger in rap than any of the black rappers ? And don't tell me he is that much better than them.

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

U2Girl, Eminem is the Paul McCartney of rap....very assessible and commercial. Great with taking Dre's beats and making them singles.

I agree with you on his being a "lyrical genius", but what the kids like here is the fact that he's rapping about the "hard life" of a "white guy". It brings them closer to the "Gangsta Life" they can only dream about (and really want nothing to do with).

As for his being white and bigger than the black rappers....it is America dear.

 

[U2girl]

McCartney wrote many classic songs of pop that are popular even 30+ years after the band broke up, and he was the most succesful solo Beatle. With Lennon, they make the most legendary songwriting team in history. They made classic albums too, and their most recent album (not even unreleased songs, just no. 1 singles) "1" sold in huge amounts.

Let's not compare that to Eminem. "Classic albums"? I think time will prove otherwise. I think it's kind of hard to look credible and rap about a hard life once you make millions with one record and have flashy videos and sport the "bling bling". Goes for all rappers.

 

[Popmartijn]

i could care less what the album debuts at. the less people that like it, the better seat i'll have at their concert.

Have you been talking to Martha lately?

 

[Flying FuManchu]

Lyrical genius = topical, his odd rhyming schemes and flow.... this is what I'm told... serious hip hoppers/ rappers? LOL... they're just as bad as the college rock snobs or the prog rock snobs...

I think its a legitimate comparison with what Eno and Lanois brought out of U2 and Dr. Dre brought out with Eminem. Also let me add on a sidenote, that one of Eminem's biggest songs was his own well produced "Lose Yourself in the Music."

U2's sound, prior to Unforgettable Fire and Joshua Tree was much different from what they put out before... Much credit should go to U2, but you can't tell me Eno and Lanois's work in ambient music as well as their knowledge of guitars/ production didn't put U2 at another level and weren't a big influence. Hell, they played on those records.

As for the hype boosting Eminem... there was another rapper that had a lot of hype but doesn't have the staying power or respect - Vanilla Ice. For Eminem to be able to have the impact he has as well as "critical respect" just shows he is a talent. If one thinks beats were the only thing propelling a hip hop song, then you you're mistaken.

 

[Popmartijn]

I think Jay Z and Outkast prevented ATYCLB from no.1 spot but it sold really well on the long run.

*edit* But I remember reading ATYCLB had U2's biggest opening week sales in US ever...or did I mix something up?

Yes and yes. Because of the release of the Jay-Z album and Outkast's Stankonia U2 debuted #3. However, they did have their best opening week ever, so that's correct to.
Starting the end of October, album sales generally increase until Christmas as it is the start of the holiday season (in the USA with Thanksgiving and Christmas). So it's advantageous to release an album at the end of the year. Even though it may not chart very high, sales will be big. And while a record company hopes to have a #1 album, their ultimate concern is total album sales.

As for Eminem and U2's releases only being 1 week apart (while they're on the same label), that's a bit unfortunate, but I guess also the best they can arrange. First, Interscope is hoping it will have an album #1 for 2 consecutive week (either 2 weeks of Eminem or 1 week Eminem and then U2). Also, Universal is a huge label, so my guess is that about every week in that period Universal will release a major album. If it isn't Eminem, then it is another rapper, or popular rock band or teen pop star or whatever (I don't have the release schedule with me, so I can't see if there are any other Universal acts scheduled).

Just be happy they're not released in the same week.

C ya!

Marty

 

[U2girl]

As far as I know, lots of his songs are degrading women - even his mother, homosexuals and he regularly picks on other music colleagues. Not much genius about that IMO.

I take it "serious hip hoppers" means someone who pays attention to that scene for years and decades and not someone who got on board with Puff Daddy, Eminem or 50 Cent.

Well now that Dre taught him all the cool studio production tricks, of course he'll start producing himself. (Lose yourself is, along with Stan, one of the two songs I approve of, because they have a positive message) Sure, Eno added synthsizer sounds but I think Daniel Lanois basically only plays additional guitar on their albums - still, it was their songwriting that shines through.

Vanilla Ice proves my point. He was hyped, and he faded away, and so will Eminem. (50 Cent already overshadowed him IMO)

 

[Flying FuManchu]

LOL.. Vanilla Ice faded away quick... Eminem has three extremely high grossing albums, he is a pop culture icon (which may seem unfortunate to people but its true), he gets respect from peers in rock and in hip hop, he has been around since 1997... thats nearing a decade old career. Hendrix, Cream, the Clash, etc... their careers were only a few albums and a few years yet they are legends... Eminem has been around for a while now which is hard to believe but its true with an album that IMO is probably eagerly awaited. I don't see a fading star. But even if he fades, he has accomplished a lot in music that many could only dream of (if they wanted to be big that is).

Also, to limit Eno as just adding synthesizer sounds and Lanois playing guitar is pretty narrow minded. Hell, it was Eno who introduced the Edge to the e-bow.

U2girl... you're sounding like George Harrison...

 

[U2girl]

It's easy being big when he's riding on the wave of rap and hip hop mainstream and the touch of Dre's hand - but let's see what happens when those guys aren't the biggest thing anymore. 4 albums in 10 years - will that be his average? Than you could argue he's playing it safe by having long breaks between albums, and so assuring the hype.

I know Eno is the one interested in new sounds, but most of the time he does play the synthesizers. (that said, U2 themselves are interested in experimenting) Lanois on the other hand is interested in the organic interaction of the band, both has been said by Edge about the difference between the two. Regardless, with them it still comes down to having good songs, new sounds or not.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

Many music legends eventually fade away, but its the impact that they have or have had in the musical landscape is whats generally remembered... Eminem, for better or for worse, has had an impact and its propped up with critical respect unlike say 2-Live Crew or Vanilla Ice. These guys also had an impact on music, but none of them received the critical praise or respect a guy like Eminem has received...

 

[U2girl]

OK, I agree on that - impact is important, but more so, relevance - the meaning of music later in time, after the career itself is over.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

It's easy being big when he's riding on the wave of rap and hip hop mainstream and the touch of Dre's hand - but let's see what happens when those guys aren't the biggest thing anymore.

Is Eminem supposed to make country western albums in order to be signifcant? His genre is hip hop/ rap... Wow, so you expect Eminem to be significant even when he's in his 40's and 50's? I know U2 is trying to do it, but I guess that makes guys like Paul McCartney, Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, the Stones as less than legends.