do you think that bono truly believes in his causes...

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BonoVoxSupastar said:


Ok, then no need for your speculations. You have very little to stand on, try to bring something that will support your weight.

again, if you don't like to see people talk about this issue, then please leave. unless you have something to add to the topic, we don't need your usual condescending and obnoxious attitude towards other posters in here. in fact, we don't need it regardless of what you have to say.
 
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corianderstem said:


No, it doesn't make me wonder.

As for the first paragraph, are we still talking about moving the portion of the business to the Netherlands? If you are, then I think the first paragraph is quite an overreaction.

Why would moving a portion of the business out of Ireland mean they're not convinced by Bono's rhetoric?

I guess I'm more willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this. If they start moving more pieces of the business out of Ireland, then I think it's cause to question what they're doing.

I understand why this move is drawing a lot of criticism, and I understand why some people are just completely put off by Bono. I'm just baffled why U2 moving part of their business out of Ireland somehow equals "Bono doesn't really think all of this shit will work and completely slags off all the world's poor when the mikes are off and the cameras aren't around."

(Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit at with that second bit, but you get the picture.)

And for the record, it doesn't bother me that he lives like a wealthy man while advocating for those less fortunate. Call me a naive dupe, but I still believe people believe in things and want to make a change. And I believe that of Bono.

corianderstem, i think you need to read the other posts i made about this. everyone knew that there was a great risk that the press would call bono a hypocrite as a consequence of this move. if this is the most important task of our generation, why run that risk? isn't that a bit shabby of bono's friends to let him down like that, just for a few thousands pounds that don't mean much to them? and why cannot they see the big picture?

ask yourself...if you set out to convince any person in the rich part of the world to donate more tax money to africa, because you felt nothing on earth was more important, would you run this risk?
 
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Re: Re: do you think that bono truly believes in his causes...

Liesje said:


Sounds like you're asking more if WE believe Bono's causes.


Yes, I think that's what the thread starter is getting at. To suggest Bono doesn't believe in his causes is really an insult to him.
 
ask yourself...if you set out to convince any person in the rich part of the world to donate more tax money to africa, because you felt nothing on earth was more important, would you run this risk?

I hope you won't think I'm a horrid person for saying this but...if I were in fact a multi-millionaire who campaigned for a cause close to my heart, I would probably still do everything I could to reduce my taxes. So I guess the answer in my case is yes.:reject: Although in my defense, the situation hasn't really come up in my life yet! I guess this is why I'm more sympathetic to the band on this point...I know I'd probably do the same thing.

I think this would be a very different argument if Bono were asking for a tax increase in Ireland. Very different indeed. The fact that he is asking for a reallocation of government funds (as opposed to asking anyone to shell out more money) changes the debate a bit, in my mind.

As far as whether or not he believes in his causes, well, I loved MrBrau1's post on this. IMO, the guy doesn't have to live like a saint in order to really believe in something. But that's just my opinion, and it's been interesting to hear everyone else's in this thread.
 
i do believe that anyone will try to pay as few taxes as possible and that that goes for bono too. and no, that doesnt make him an 'asshole' as someone suggested above. but it does make his speeches seem deliberately, and not genuinely, naive to me.
 
Ralphie said:

IMO, the guy doesn't have to live like a saint in order to really believe in something.

Nobody is saying he has to be a saint, he can drink what he wants, smoke what he wants, fuck what he wants, and it wouldn't be a big deal. But to go around imploring governments to give their tax money away, and then to pull a portion of your business out of your home country in order to avoid paying a some of your taxes, especially AFTER HE SAID HE WOULDN'T DO THAT, then he loses some credibility.

Was the money that they saved really worth that loss of credibility, the beating they are taking, and a little leverage Bono loses in his fight for Africa?
 
MrBrau1 said:


Nope.

But, it's all about scale. I travel around the Northeast US and visit family.

I'd encourage my friends and family to give to charity, all the while doing all I can to reduce my tax liability.

Is my concern not genuine?

If I paid extra tax, would my concern for others be more valid?

there's a huge difference here. are you encouraging your friends and family to pay more taxes or are you asking them to accept that the social benefits, they enjoy, are cut in order to reallocate their tax money?
 
I have read all the posts in this thread, U2Man, and I hear what you're saying, and I've said what I'm going to say, and I'm not saying any more on this subject, because some of the speculations in here continue to baffle me.

I maintain that it seems like an overreaction to me. I think what I think, and you all think what you want to think, and have a nice day.
 
dazzlingamy said:
I think some people think Bono is the new Ghandi, or Mother Thresa or something. Bono ISN'T his causes, he's just a 40 something year old rock star, who has a conscience and is doing as much as he willingly can to help it.

Just because he believes in ending starvation doesn't make him then have to give up all his worldly goods and sit in a cardboard box with his family to prove a point. The main point here is that he is raising AWARENESS. Focussing on the little part inside of everyone where good comes from and making us think.

Frankly, im less worried that Bono and Co have moved their "small fortune" publishing rights to Holland to save a couple of million that a greedy government wants, then seeing a TRILLION DOLLARS go into a WAR that is not NEEDED or WANTED or has helped anything.

I think if anybody was a millionaire you wouldn't give up that lifestyle just to "make a point" no one is that selfless not even saint bono.

For the record, Bill Gates gives huge sums of money, but this dude still has you know like 20 billion dollars in the bank, so its not like he's roughing it.

I do think bono supports his causes, i just don't think he's so farking godly, that he has to go a ghandi to show he means it. Thats just unrealistic in ANY sense.

Agreed on that. Many people who go on and on about the taxes, don't even see that U2 already pay millions of taxes, so what person in their right mind would start paying 43% MORE tax when they have the chance not to?
it's also true that in contrast with Ireland, The Netherlands do pay the 0.7% for developing countries, so even tho U2 are now only paying 1% on their royalties, they know that it'll be used well.

I still don't get why the amount of money one gives shows how much he/she cares... can somebody explain me that?

oh and Ralphie, just a little FYI, Ireland is NOT part of the Uk..
 
Copy said:


there's a huge difference here. are you encouraging your friends and family to pay more taxes or are you asking them to accept that the social benefits, they enjoy, are cut in order to reallocate their tax money?

Imagine what we could do if we put $10 for each citizen towards aid. $10 is too much of a social benefit to put towards a million children that WILL otherwise starve to death within months?
 
Liesje said:


Imagine what we could do if we put $10 for each citizen towards aid. $10 is too much of a social benefit to put towards a million children that WILL otherwise starve to death within months?

and when those $10 are spent?
 
MrBrau1 said:


You've just used far too much logic and reasonable thought.

Please, for the sake of the forum, stop.
aye, or you will be ignored or ridiculed for ages :up:
 
oh and Ralphie, just a little FYI, Ireland is NOT part of the Uk..

How embarrassing! I suppose I did deserve to get called out on that one.:wink: I also realize now that I credited dazzlingamy's post to MrBrau1 so...no more early morning, pre-coffee posting for me!
 
Wow, interesting thread.

It seems to have gotten from "Do you think he believes in his causes" to "is he morally able to campaign for his causes while still taking advantage of legal tax loops"

Well,yeah I think He believes in his causes. As has been said before I'm sure he gives plenty of his own money to his causes, although he doesn't publicize his donations so who really knows how much he has given. He also gives up ALOT of his time. If you look at alot of the right wing blogs out there(Freerepublic.com for example) He gets alot more kudos than the average celebrity crusader. If you listen to him speak you can tell, He's done his homework. I'm sure He could find more decadent ways of spending his off time if He didn't believe in them, and probably have more fun.

I really have no problem with him being an activist and a businessman at the same time. Given how much He's done, I really don't care if He's trying to reduce his taxes. Everyone does, including, I'm guessing, most people in this thread.

I don't think it's a big deal

:shrug:
 
was the capitalization of the He's in jest, or do ya really think Bono is so God-like that when you refer to him as a he it needs to be capitalized?
 
U2Man said:


again, if you don't like to see people talk about this issue, then please leave. unless you have something to add to the topic, we don't need your usual condescending and obnoxious attitude towards other posters in here. in fact, we don't need it regardless of what you have to say.

Where did I say I don't like to see people talk about this issue?

Look it you can't back up what you say don't get upset with me, attacking me isn't going to solve anything.

All I've seen is speculation(and borderline trolling), where have I been condescending or obnoxious?
 
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Chizip said:
was the capitalization of the He's in jest, or do ya really think Bono is so God-like that when you refer to him as a he it needs to be capitalized?

Nah, not in jest. And I think if God wanted to appear in the flesh among us mortals He'd choose a, er slimmer body. Nobody would respect a God who's slighty chubby.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Where did I say I don't like to see people talk about this issue?

i can hardly imagine that you enjoy reading through a thread that you call a 'useless discussion'.

BonoVoxSupastar said:

Look it you can't back up what you say don't get upset with me, attacking me isn't going to solve anything.

All I've seen is speculation(and borderline trolling), where have I been condescending or obnoxious?

in this very thread for instance. and i could provide you with more examples from other threads. but it would be of no use. because either you are already well aware of this fact or you would never realize it, regardless of what i explained to you here.

you have posted nothing of relevance here and called this thread a useless discussion. for the third time, why do you bother posting in it?
 
CPTLCTYGOOFBALL said:

I really have no problem with him being an activist and a businessman at the same time. Given how much He's done, I really don't care if He's trying to reduce his taxes. Everyone does, including, I'm guessing, most people in this thread.

yes, and most people on the planet. but don't you find it conflicting? bono doesnt like taxes. he knows human beings dont like taxes. how can he possibly believe that he can solve the huge problem of africa by using tax payers's money?
 
U2Man said:


yes, and most people on the planet. but don't you find it conflicting? bono doesnt like taxes. he knows human beings dont like taxes. how can he possibly believe that he can solve the huge problem of africa by using tax payers's money?

Re-allocating MONEY GOVERNMENTS ALREADY HAVE, NOT RAISING TAXES, has nothing to do with liking or not liking taxes. I think everyone who has to pay them hates taxes. However, we have to pay them (it's sort of certain.:wink:), so why not spend some of that money more usefully. How many times are people (not you!!) going to have to be told that? He's just asking for more money that every country has to be put towards this type of aid. Whether that tiny portion of the business is in Ireland or not has no bearing. Even if a country (as all do) rises and falls in terms of the amount of taxes received yearly, he simply asks for more of whatever a country has to help in this area. If the country has less money, then clearly it's expected they'll give less. Bono doesn't want anyone (including himself( to have to pay more taxes. He just wants the governments to give more of what they have to help fight this serious problem.
 
U2Man said:


yes, and most people on the planet. but don't you find it conflicting? bono doesn't like taxes.

Has he ever said such a thing? Not to my knowledge. Like others have pointed out, we're reading a LOT into this (both ways) and making some grand speculations based on very little actual information. Personally, someone else's personal finances are not really any of my business. I've done a lot of advocating for certain causes and doing this or that to learn more and encourage others to learn more, but I've never had people asking me about my personal finances before they would listen to me or judge what I had to say. I went to great lengths to find loopholes in my taxes. I was audited by the state at age 21. I've never had anyone turn that against me and say that it somehow makes what I believe in and what I stand for less relevant.

All this just proves how much effort people put into bringing others down and scrutinizing every little detail when ALL Bono has ever advocated for is that if we took even a percent of that negative effort and applied ourselves to making a positive change, we'd already be leaps and bounds farther ahead of where we are now.

So say Bono really is miserly, does that really make his message any less relevant or valuable? I don't really think so. I might think a lot less of him as a person, but who he is as a person really has no direct relevance to the issue at hand. I always thought part of his point was that people need to grow up and realize that these issues exist regardless of Bono or any other celebs and their pet causes. I think of my dad, who made a lot of stupid choices when he was younger and still succumbs to addiction every day. But I turned out OK because I listen to his words of encouragement and advice rather than say "well, you failed at this so why should I even listen?" IMO, that's just a really dumb way to live one's life. No one would ever get anywhere because let's face it, no one's perfect or even close.

We judge Bono so harshly, more harshly than our own family and friends, and yet we don't even know him and most of us have never met him.
 
Liesje said:



We judge Bono so harshly, more harshly than our own family and friends, and yet we don't even know him and most of us have never met him.

and when I told you the opinion of someone who HAD met him and DID know him, (the surgeon from the Balt. GA line) you disregarded it.
 
U2Kitten said:


and when I told you the opinion of someone who HAD met him and DID know him, (the surgeon from the Balt. GA line) you disregarded it.

She's met Bono a few times for longer than most of us!:ohmy: Shite, she must have insight into his deepest feelings and insights. Perhaps the pathetic individual, should quit trying to blow us all away with her knowledge of someone she's known for a few hours and focus on her selfishness and self-righteousness. Crazy, isn't it?:happy: :| She does not KNOW Bono!!! What the hell is wrong with you? Would you quit trying to tear everyone around you down? It's disgusting! If you have nothing positive to say...SHUT UP!
 
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Ralphie said:


How embarrassing! I suppose I did deserve to get called out on that one.:wink: I also realize now that I credited dazzlingamy's post to MrBrau1 so...no more early morning, pre-coffee posting for me!

I'll take it anyway! Thank you! :wink:


I think a point here is, if you had $80 million coming in and suddenly a government decides they want a big fuck off piece of that piece, say $38 million would you NOT do something to protect it? U2 don't know where that tax goes, it could go on paving roads or it could go on a stupid ugly arts statute in the middle or dublin, or to pay for the "learning trips" government officials take every year.

I just think we're placing too much on Bono here, he's not asking to raise taxes he's asking for them to be replaced on other issues then stupid crap things that gobble up money (like Fed Square here in Melbourne....what an effing waste of money!!) and that is something i definately agree one, hence my last post and the trillion dollars of war money the us government seems happy to leach.


I dunno, i think its pathetic that u2 get paid bucketloads to sing songs, or celebs get millions of dollar for having fun shooting a movie for 6 months, but thats the way the world goes round and we gotta find a place we're comfortable in.

I just think we should see Bono as a man first, a BUSINESS man, making business desicions over his money, then the activist second.
 
U2isthebest said:


She's met Bono a few times for longer than most of us!:ohmy: Shite, she must have insight into his deepest feelings and insights. Perhaps the pathetic individual, should quit trying to blow us all away with her knowledge of someone she's known for a few hours and focus on her selfishness and self-righteousness. Crazy, isn't it?:happy: :| She does not KNOW Bono!!!

She didn't meet him just in fan meetings, she had hung out with him. I guess the only people who really 'know' Bono are his family, the band, and Guggi and Gavin.


What the hell is wrong with you? Would you quit trying to tear everyone around you down? It's disgusting! If you have nothing positive to say...SHUT UP!

You don't like having your little Bono fantasy intruded on, do you? Look, I'm a fan too! I don't hate him! I don't hate his cause! I am only saying the way he projects himself and contradicts himself sometimes hurt his cause and I can understand how non fans see him as a hypocrite! That's all!
 
U2Kitten said:


and when I told you the opinion of someone who HAD met him and DID know him, (the surgeon from the Balt. GA line) you disregarded it.

Well, I've heard the opinions of those who've spent a considerable amount more time with Bono, including time in Africa and other parts of the world, and their facts are vastly different. Partying with Bono isn't what I consider "knowing" someone. I don't consider the people I hang out with socially to be my real friends. If I ever meet Bono, I'll ask him about the surgeon from the Baltimore GA line and withhold judgment on her opinions until I hear from him.
 
Oh please, can we not do this again. U2Kitten, you have to admit, that coming on and saying 'i have a friend who met bono a few times' is not THAT creditable, from anyone, i could say it, how would you know im making it up just to prove a point.

I understand people are calling him a hypocrite, and don't really care, but im not defending him, im just trying to explain how i see it, whether thats wrong or not, i also don't care!

You can have your opinions but you KNOW it causes fights because you do it in an attacking way.
 
dazzlingamy said:
Oh please, can we not do this again. U2Kitten, you have to admit, that coming on and saying 'i have a friend who met bono a few times' is not THAT creditable, from anyone, i could say it, how would you know im making it up just to prove a point.

Seriously. I get e-mails all the time through my Ali Hewson site, from people that actually have similar stories. None of it ever corroborated, go figure.
 
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