do you think that bono truly believes in his causes...

[U2girl]

The funny thing is U2 will actually be paying more taxes in Holland than they have been in Ireland for the past 25 years. (as opposed to not paying anything in the past, now that would be, according to St/Sir Bono, 43% of roughly one third of all of their income. show me anyone that would willingly do that over paying less when possible.)

I would guess the band have payed, pay and will continue to pay a lot more taxes than the average Irish resident due to their big income, fancy cars/houses etc.

And I think getting governments to drop their debts and trade fairly with Africa, co-founding things like RED and EDUN or DATA or one.org (shall I put on the contactmusic.com's article on the band and McGuiness donating money on the last tour) is walking the walk. Less people would be doing less about poverty if people like Bono or Bill Gates or whoever wouldn't be raising awareness.

And I think given how much critisism he's picking up everywhere for it, there could hardly be any worse PR.

Even if we assume that he hasn't donated anything on his own and that this is all about him wanting to "have a place in history" for something beside the music - is the cause worth any less for it?

 

[U2Man]

1) They are still paying taxes on the part of their business they moved to the Netherlands...the taxes are lower, but still taxes.

2) They are paying the taxes to the Netherlands.

3) On another fan website a poster mentioned that the Netherlands was the only European country currently meeting the spending goals on world poverty...

It's not *avoiding* taxes, it's putting them where they'll do the most good...

does that mean that of germany was the country in the world that donated the most to fight world poverty, u2 would have moved their business to germany, even if germany had the highest tax rate in the world?

 

[Ralphie]

I think that Kimby was probably joking about that. I'm pretty neutral on the tax thing myself. I can understand why Irish citizens would be miffed, on the other hand, who out there really would line up to pay more taxes when there's a way for them to reduce that cost? I know I jump at any tax deduction I can find. It doesn't affect my opinion on how much they believe in their causes - I see them as two separate issues.

 

[U2Kitten]

The thing is, not all Irish citizens complain that not enough is done to help the poor. Bono's taxes could not only be donated to Africa, they could be used mainly to help the poor of IRELAND, his homeland after all! Has he forgotten what it's like in Ballymun?

I am always surprised at the great lengths people will go to to justify him. If he were just anybody and not a member of U2, I bet most of them would think he was a 'greedy' 'hypocritical' bastard

 

[MrBrau1]

I donate to charity.

I encourage others to as well

I also try and limit my tax liability.

Does that make me a son of a bitch?

Or a hypocrite?

 

[corianderstem]

If he were just anybody and not a member of U2, I bet most of them would think he was a 'greedy' 'hypocritical' bastard

If you (and I mean the vague 'you,' not you personally) look at a wealthy man trying to make a positive change in the world and you think, "gosh, what a greedy, hypocritical bastard," I think that says a lot more about you than it does about the wealthy do-gooder.

And that applies whether the wealthy do-gooder is a celebrity or not.

 

[U2Girl1978]

The thing is, not all Irish citizens complain that not enough is done to help the poor. Bono's taxes could not only be donated to Africa, they could be used mainly to help the poor of IRELAND, his homeland after all! Has he forgotten what it's like in Ballymun?

I am always surprised at the great lengths people will go to to justify him. If he were just anybody and not a member of U2, I bet most of them would think he was a 'greedy' 'hypocritical' bastard

Honestly, I don't care if I get crucified for this but you are so idiotic. If there was a middle finger smiley it would be pointed right at you.

Why don't you just spew your hatred somewhere else? Please.

 

[biff]

Bono's taxes could not only be donated to Africa, they could be used mainly to help the poor of IRELAND, his homeland after all! Has he forgotten what it's like in Ballymun?

As has been pointed out to you about three bejillion times, Bono does indeed pay taxes to Ireland: Many millions of dollars in taxes.
As amazing as this may seem to you, Michelle, as the fount of all knowledge, he does not have any control over how that money is spent. He cannot direct that the taxes he pays to Ireland will go to the people of Africa, or indeed to the people of Ballymun (which, by the way, was a middle-class community when he grew up there). Feck!

 

[blueeyedgirl]

I have no opinion on the rest of this thread but U2 are a middle class band, they all grew up as part of the middle class, despite Bono's attempts in the past to make himself sound as if he came from a rough part of town, "working class street cred" and all that

 

[Liesje]

I donate to charity.

I encourage others to as well

I also try and limit my tax liability.

Does that make me a son of a bitch?

Or a hypocrite?

It makes you a normal person with some level of compassion AND common sense.

 

[biff]

I have no opinion on the rest of this thread but U2 are a middle class band, they all grew up as part of the middle class, despite Bono's attempts in the past to make himself sound as if he came from a rough part of town, "working class street cred" and all that

You can see my last post.

I haven't seen articles in which Bono has portrayed himself as a working class lad from a hard part of town. In fact, he expressed confusion: "Am I working class or middle class? I don't know. Somewhere in between."

 

[MrBrau1]

It makes you a normal person with some level of compassion AND common sense.

Really?

Don't you need to know how wealthy I am before judgement can be passed?

I may be very rich. Make $500,000 a year.

Or maybe I'm middle class. Make $40,000 a year.

Maybe I'm right at poverty level. Only give $20 a year to my local church, but I think it's important.

Do ya'll think Warren Buffet has a team of lawyers limiting his tax liability?

Are his charitible gifts "false" or "tainted?"

Is he an immoral person?

 

[redhotswami]

yah, i've got loads of relatives who cheat on their taxes, but they still have very big hearts.

and fyi, ballymun, while is no O.C., is certainly getting better. we had some kickass parties there over the summer, and the people were awesome. all those millions of dollars that the individual u2 members pay in taxes (along with everyone else that lives there) are definitely making an improvement. only 3 of the towers remain, and people are being moved into actual townhomes. they look pretty nice too! white and browns and such. not bleak and concrete like the original flats. some people actually have a garden outside their home for the first time in their lives!

 

[corianderstem]

Don't you need to know how wealthy I am before judgement can be passed?

Depends on whether you're judging someone based on the fact that they give to charity, or if you're judging someone based on how much they're giving.

 

[Copy]

I donate to charity.

I encourage others to as well

I also try and limit my tax liability.

Does that make me a son of a bitch?

Or a hypocrite?

do you travel around the globe, asking governments to raise the tax levels of their countries in order to donate more to the poor?

now, do you?

 

[Ralphie]

do you travel around the globe, asking governments to raise the tax levels of their countries in order to donate more to the poor?

now, do you?

First I want to say that I understand why some people might feel this way, even though I feel differently about this particular topic. Possibly it doesn't bother me as much because I don't live in Ireland. Bono has been lobbying for increased aid to Africa here in the US, where he's not a tax paying citizen (I'm sure he does in fact pay some kind of taxes here, but you know what I mean). Even though he's not personally donating to our tax fund I'm not angry that he's asking. I think his heart is in the right place, myself, but I can't claim to know the guy.

 

[Copy]

asking is ok, i guess - but if a company you are a part of yourself is avoiding taxes, you do look like a hypocrit, imo.

 

[Liesje]

First I want to say that I understand why some people might feel this way, even though I feel differently about this particular topic. Possibly it doesn't bother me as much because I don't live in Ireland. Bono has been lobbying for increased aid to Africa here in the US, where he's not a tax paying citizen (I'm sure he does in fact pay some kind of taxes here, but you know what I mean). Even though he's not personally donating to our tax fund I'm not angry that he's asking. I think his heart is in the right place, myself, but I can't claim to know the guy.

But he's not even asking for an increase in taxes, in Ireland OR the US. He's always asked that the taxes we already pay be reallocated. We already pay more than enough in taxes to start relieving debt and providing aid. All he's asking is that we maybe spend a little less on ourselves (*coughwarcough*) and a little more on the millions that starve every year.

I would understand why people would be mad if he were lobbying for increases in taxes, but so far it hasn't been the case.

 

[Copy]

but its pretty naive to think that the irish people would accept a lowering of their standard of living, in order to help people in africa.

 

[Muminki]

bono doesn't have to give anything to charity. he could be the richest and most famous man in the world and still not have to. we could sit behind our screens and criticise him for it but he's under no obligation to be generous with his money or his time (which i do think think he is now) helping the poor. and i do think he believes in what he does.

i don't think it is anyone's business what he does and doesn't do with his money.

 

[redhotswami]

but its pretty naive to think that the irish people would accept a lowering of their standard of living, in order to help people in africa.

how are the irish having to accept a lower standard of living? bono, and the others, LIVE in ireland. they and their families ARE paying taxes. only one part of their u2 business, has been moved. just one part. the rest of their business is still indeed paying irish taxes.

 

[Copy]

how are the irish having to accept a lower standard of living? bono, and the others, LIVE in ireland. they and their families ARE paying taxes. only one part of their u2 business, has been moved. just one part. the rest of their business is still indeed paying irish taxes.

how can you transfer money from ireland to africa while not raising taxes without having to cut government spending in ireland?

 

[redhotswami]

how can you transfer money from ireland to africa while not raising taxes without having to cut government spending in ireland?

that depends on where they transfer the money from. not all gov'ts give most of their money to social services. at least in the united states, less than 1% of gov't spending goes to the poor. isn't that ridiculous? military defense spending is where most of the money is invested. honestly, if our gov't would even allocate just 5% of the money it gives to military defense to the poor in our country, that would make one hell of a difference.

and ireland's gov't cares too much about their poor to allocate money intended for them to go to africa. they have state funded housing and programs, and are going through great lengths to improve those. there are loads of other spending that ireland can allocate the money from.

and ireland doesn't really have much of a problem of giving money. for years this gov't has been actively involved in helping the poor in africa and other parts of the world. the poor in their own country have not suffered because of it.

 

[U2Kitten]

Honestly, I don't care if I get crucified for this but you are so idiotic. If there was a middle finger smiley it would be pointed right at you.

Oh don't worry you're fine! The main mods here hate me so much they think it's just fine for people to insult me and make me the butt of jokes, and they believe I 'deserve' it. In fact I am sure the only reason I'm not banned is because it's too much fun for them to watch people torture me! You could have threatened to kill me and they won't do a damn thing. It's only me after all, I don't count.

Why don't you just spew your hatred somewhere else? Please.

I don't know how I can explain that it's not hatred! I don't even hate him! All I'm trying to do is explain how he appears to other people, people who don't love or worship him, average people, the ones he's trying to win over! He's hurting his own cause, IMO.

 

[U2Kitten]

asking is ok, i guess - but if a company you are a part of yourself is avoiding taxes, you do look like a hypocrit, imo.

That's the bottom line, regardless of who it is. But when you are a guy who goes around preaching about the poor and helping other countries through peoples' tax money, and he tries to avoid giving any to his own country, it's hard to deny it looks bad (unless you just love him so much you want to sit and make excuses for him)

 

[redhotswami]

But when you are a guy who goes around preaching about the poor and helping other countries through peoples' tax money, and he tries to avoid giving any to his own country, it's hard to deny it looks bad

okay right there is where the problem is. he isn't avoiding paying ANY taxes. he, individually, is paying taxes. he is an irish citizen, has residence there, and probably owns other property there. he IS paying taxes. HE, Bono, The Individual, is paying taxes.

If he had moved his entire estate, then you might have a case.

Don't forget, there are other members of the U2 business, not just Bono, that are responsible for making these decisions. And noone else in that business goes around asking people to invest in Africa. Just him. This thread is about whether HE believes in his causes. If HE, as an individual, is paying the taxes, then whats the problem?

 

[U2Kitten]

As has been pointed out to you about three bejillion times, Bono does indeed pay taxes to Ireland: Many millions of dollars in taxes.

How can you prove what he pays? Yes, he has always paid property taxes, but I don't see how he could pay any income taxes when the majority of his income was royalties, which he is now fleeing to avoid paying.

As amazing as this may seem to you, Michelle, as the fount of all knowledge, he does not have any control over how that money is spent. He cannot direct that the taxes he pays to Ireland will go to the people of Africa, or indeed to the people of Ballymun (which, by the way, was a middle-class community when he grew up there). Feck!

As I said before, he could set up his own tax exempt charity that donates to what he wants to, and by giving all that, he can deduct from his taxes what they would have taken anyway, hence he could more or less know where it was going. I fully intend to do that if I ever win the lotto.

And yes it does still make him look hypocritical to whine to everyone all over the world to tell their leaders to commit THEIR tax money to Africa when he hides his like an old miser. Also, surely his tax money could do a lot of good for the poor in Ireland.

Who needs 100 million anyway? What could one person possibly do with that in a lifetime? Even leaving a healthy chunk to your kids, and buying everything you want? I'm still waiting for him to pull a Bill Gates and donate a large portion of his fortune to help AIDS in Africa, and then challenge other rich stars to do the same. If it means that much to him that they're dying every day, surely all those days on the beach in the South of France and all those rides in his Maserati can't put it out of his mind. (and when he goes to NYC he could stay in a hotel, or buy a cheaper place, he doesn't need a 14 million dollar apt., but this is just rehashing from the Lola thread)

And I know it's the whole band and not just him, but he is the only one who goes around campaigning for the poor, that's why it looks bad on him.

I'm also wondering, are Van Morrison, Enya, and other Irish stars laundering their money out of Ireland too, or are they going to let their gov't take it? Has anyone heard? Is it only U2 who is complaining and fleeing?

 

[redhotswami]

Bono

U2

U2 > Bono

 

[Copy]

that depends on where they transfer the money from. not all gov'ts give most of their money to social services. at least in the united states, less than 1% of gov't spending goes to the poor. isn't that ridiculous? military defense spending is where most of the money is invested. honestly, if our gov't would even allocate just 5% of the money it gives to military defense to the poor in our country, that would make one hell of a difference.

and ireland's gov't cares too much about their poor to allocate money intended for them to go to africa. they have state funded housing and programs, and are going through great lengths to improve those. there are loads of other spending that ireland can allocate the money from.

and ireland doesn't really have much of a problem of giving money. for years this gov't has been actively involved in helping the poor in africa and other parts of the world. the poor in their own country have not suffered because of it.

since ireland is not spending a lot on military, some irish civilians must be paying the price. the same goes for all other countries on the planet. the current danish government declared that they wanted to reduce the amount of money denmark gives to the poor countries, and it was one of the reasons why they were elected into office. people in general do not want to pay higher taxes and they do not want to let go of any social services they enjoy in order to help people on the other half of the globe. they think the money ends up in the hands of greedy dictators. money that could be spend on their own hospitals, schools, etc.

any politician can ask the question: what do you prefer: more people being operated for cancers this year in your own country or more money for dictator a, b and c in africa? and people will choose to vote for that person. thats the way things work.

 

[biff]

How can you prove what he pays? Yes, he has always paid property taxes, but I don't see how he could pay any income taxes when the majority of his income was royalties, which he is now fleeing to avoid paying.

McGuinness has said that the income from royalties represents about one third of the band's income. That's not what I would call a "majority". And note, that is the band's income, not just Bono's.

Bono owns several businesses in Ireland (restaurants, pubs, a hotel, clothing company, etc.) from which he derives income upon which he must pay tax. He was quoted recently as saying that he pays many millions in tax per year. But I suppose you'll just add the word "liar" to the "greedy hypocritical bastard" bit.

Now where's that dead horse?