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Old 01-12-2007, 03:26 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally posted by jinn77
While his humanitarianism is to be commended, I'm a little worried he is pandering to right wing America in his very none voiciferous stance on human rights crimes being carried out in the Middle East by our so called leaders.
that is a good point. he does say some things about his stance on some of those issues, though not as blatantly as he does about Africa. i find it hard to stomach sometimes, but i think one time he made a good point when he said that it isn't just a left-wing issue. i commend him for being willing to sit and talk with people that i'm too prideful to respect sometimes. that is dedication at it's finest.
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Old 01-12-2007, 06:23 PM   #137
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first of all, i would like to thank bonochick for not closing this thread despite of all the useless bickering. cannot you guys bicker on eachother in private via pm or email, especially when it is totally irrelevant regarding the topic here? it would be appreciated - this thread went on well and peacefully with lots of good posts and opinions until now.

now, back on topic:

Quote:
Originally posted by redhotswami
Bono U2

U2 > Bono
i have seen this argument used by a few of you when people bring up the issue about bono trying to avoid taxes while asking others to donate more of their tax money at the same time.

cannot you see how weak this is?

bono is talking about "make poverty history", "this is what our generation has set out to do", "this is our putting a man on the moon"...!

....and yet he cannot convince his nearest friends and business pals that it might not look good and it might hurt his cause that they move a tiny division of the company out of ireland in order to avoid taxes...

"hey look guys, i know we might miss a few thousands pounds each year and we might miss a drop more in our sea of money, but look, i don't want the most important issue to mankind to get hurt by such trifles. i don't want to be called a hypocrite. there's too much at stake here. please.".

i guess i would say that a truly convinced bono should be able to persuade his nearest friends about this. if he cannot even persuade them, how on earth should he be able to persuade the rest of the planet?
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Old 01-12-2007, 06:27 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Man
i guess i would say that a truly convinced bono should be able to persuade his nearest friends about this. if he cannot even persuade them, how on earth should he be able to persuade the rest of the planet?
See now I think that is a weak argument. I don't know if that is exactly a reflection on how convinced he is. Some people you can talk to til you're blue in the face, and they won't budge. For example, I'm pretty set in my own convictions. I try to talk to others about them, some agree, some don't. Just because some disagree doesn't mean that I am any less convinced in my beliefs. That just means some people are that much convinced in their own. Not everyone in this world can be convinced to share your own beliefs. That doesn't make them any less valid, does it?
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Old 01-12-2007, 06:30 PM   #139
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I love threads like this. They attract posters from all over the spectrum; those that will bash everything he does, those that will defend everything he does, the sensible ones, trolls, etc...

It makes me feel all warm inside.
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Old 01-12-2007, 06:32 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Man
first of all, i would like to thank bonochick for not closing this thread despite of all the useless bickering. cannot you guys bicker on eachother in private via pm or email, especially when it is totally irrelevant regarding the topic here? it would be appreciated - this thread went on well and peacefully with lots of good posts and opinions until now.

now, back on topic:



i have seen this argument used by a few of you when people bring up the issue about bono trying to avoid taxes while asking others to donate more of their tax money at the same time.

cannot you see how weak this is?

bono is talking about "make poverty history", "this is what our generation has set out to do", "this is our putting a man on the moon"...!

....and yet he cannot convince his nearest friends and business pals that it might not look good and it might hurt his cause that they move a tiny division of the company out of ireland in order to avoid taxes...

"hey look guys, i know we might miss a few thousands pounds each year and we might miss a drop more in our sea of money, but look, i don't want the most important issue to mankind to get hurt by such trifles. i don't want to be called a hypocrite. there's too much at stake here. please.".

i guess i would say that a truly convinced bono should be able to persuade his nearest friends about this. if he cannot even persuade them, how on earth should he be able to persuade the rest of the planet?

Again, U2man I am truly sorry for being a part of the thread derailment! I tried a few times to get it done privately but to no avail. I so appreciate Bonochick coming in and getting things straight hopefully.

Anyways...
getting back on topic... I would think this must be a killer for Bono not being able to get his nearest and dearest friends totally persuaded on this.. He is certainly fighting the good fight and is determined to keep it up till the day he dies.. I admire him for his perseverance
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Old 01-12-2007, 06:39 PM   #141
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its that damn Paul McGuine$$
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Old 01-12-2007, 06:39 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally posted by redhotswami


See now I think that is a weak argument. I don't know if that is exactly a reflection on how convinced he is. Some people you can talk to til you're blue in the face, and they won't budge. For example, I'm pretty set in my own convictions. I try to talk to others about them, some agree, some don't. Just because some disagree doesn't mean that I am any less convinced in my beliefs. That just means some people are that much convinced in their own. Not everyone in this world can be convinced to share your own beliefs. That doesn't make them any less valid, does it?
no, not at all.

but why is it that those who are so close to bono cannot see what is at stake here? millions and millions of lives. why are they not convinced by bono's rhetoric? why cannot they see this that this is our putting a man on the moon? why? cannot you see that there is something very fishy about this?

doesnt it make you wonder what is actually going on when the camera and the mic arent on? when bono is sitting in the pub with his friends?
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Old 01-12-2007, 06:43 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Man


no, not at all.

but why is it that those who are so close to bono cannot see what is at stake here? why are they not convinced by bono's rhetoric? why cannot they see this that this is our putting a man on the moon? why? cannot you see that there is something very fishy about this?
no i agree, there is something fishy going on there. but i don't know, you know? they certainly aren't as vocal about their opinions. i think it sucks too, i do. but, like i said, some people are just so damn stubborn.

i just don't think their opposition (if it is an opposition...i don't know what else to call it right now, the proper word escapes me) means that bono doesn't truly believe in his causes.
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Old 01-12-2007, 06:46 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Man
doesnt it make you wonder what is actually going on when the camera and the mic arent on? when bono is sitting in the pub with his friends?
obviously, i can't speak for the band, since they haven't spoken publically about this (which is another red flag, isn't it?) but i can only speak with my personal examples. like, i have my own causes, and as important as they are to me, when i visit my family, i'm often told to shut up about them. maybe it is kinda the same deal with bono and these guys?
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Old 01-12-2007, 06:50 PM   #145
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obviously Bono was on board with moving part of U2 Corp out of Ireland.

You really think if Bono went to the band and said that it was really really important to him that they stay in Ireland that the rest of the band would have said "Fuck you, we want the money"?

i find that highly unlikely
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Old 01-12-2007, 06:50 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally posted by redhotswami


obviously, i can't speak for the band, since they haven't spoken publically about this (which is another red flag, isn't it?) but i can only speak with my personal examples. like, i have my own causes, and as important as they are to me, when i visit my family, i'm often told to shut up about them. maybe it is kinda the same deal with bono and these guys?
well, maybe. but i cannot help wondering. if you couldnt even convince your closest friends about something - wouldnt it make you wonder if your cause is totally unrealistic, even if you're sincere about it?
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Old 01-12-2007, 06:51 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chizip
obviously Bono was on board with moving part of U2 Corp out of Ireland.

You really think if Bono went to the band and said that it was really really important to him that they stay in Ireland that the rest of the band would have said "Fuck you, we want the money"?

i find that highly unlikely
i would have to say that i concur.
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Old 01-12-2007, 06:52 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chizip
obviously Bono was on board with moving part of U2 Corp out of Ireland.

You really think if Bono went to the band and said that it was really really important to him that they stay in Ireland that the rest of the band would have said "Fuck you, we want the money"?

i find that highly unlikely
true. i don't know. its all speculation. obviously he played a part in the decision making because they are a band and decide things together. who knows how it went down.

i just wouldn't take this one example as something to completely dismantle what bono stands for. because he has gone through great lengths in other ways to defend his causes.
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Old 01-12-2007, 06:53 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Man


well, maybe. but i cannot help wondering. if you couldnt even convince your closest friends about something - wouldnt it make you wonder if your cause is totally unrealistic, even if you're sincere about it?
nah, i'd say "fuck em" and find people that would agree i'm pretty stubborn myself.
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Old 01-12-2007, 06:56 PM   #150
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like, for example, weighing in these two things he has done:

Lunch with Bush v. Avoiding Irish Taxes

I think the former is much heavier than the later...but that is just me I don't think anything can top that.
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