Bono reviewing U2 albums

[amerrydeath]

To see Bono himself admitting that 'the whole isn't greater than the sum of its parts' on Bomb and that JT and AB are more sonically sophisticated, elates me.

Me too

 

[XHendrix24]

Electrical Storm IS one of the best U2 songs. Easily. So all you haters can just suck on that.



Oh, and I definitely agree about HTDAAB having great songs, but not turning out better than the sum of its parts as it should've.

 

[U2DMfan]

I am completely behind lazarus on the Bono interview and the Beatles topics.

Sgt Peppers is certainly a thematic musical album. While the "storytelling" of the songs doesn't lead you to beleive it's similar to the concept of The Wall, for example, it's theme is the music. And to me, that's a similar theme to Achtung Baby. The songs make sense stacked next to each because of the MUSIC, not neccessarily the lyrics. Achtung does have thematic elements throughout the lyrics, so maybe it's not the greatest example to give.

Some people pay more attention to the lyrics than the music and vice verse, it's a difficult topic to discuss between these two parties and it sort of goes back to what really constitutes songwriting. Is a set of lyrics a "song" by itself, or is it not a song until it has music appiled to it? Semantics, but really if we are talking about a theme, think about it this way. If you recorded 12 songs within a few month period, all of which came from the same spirit, sonically and all more or less designed to compliment each other, then that in fact is a concept. Even if track one is a song about dogs and cats and track two is about satan.

 

[tomtom]

I am completely behind lazarus on the Bono interview and the Beatles topics.

Sgt Peppers is certainly a thematic musical album. While the "storytelling" of the songs doesn't lead you to beleive it's similar to the concept of The Wall, for example, it's theme is the music. And to me, that's a similar theme to Achtung Baby. The songs make sense stacked next to each because of the MUSIC, not neccessarily the lyrics. Achtung does have thematic elements throughout the lyrics, so maybe it's not the greatest example to give.

Some people pay more attention to the lyrics than the music and vice verse, it's a difficult topic to discuss between these two parties and it sort of goes back to what really constitutes songwriting. Is a set of lyrics a "song" by itself, or is it not a song until it has music appiled to it? Semantics, but really if we are talking about a theme, think about it this way. If you recorded 12 songs within a few month period, all of which came from the same spirit, sonically and all more or less designed to compliment each other, then that in fact is a concept. Even if track one is a song about dogs and cats and track two is about satan.

Completely agree with everything you say here. What makes Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby so great IMO is that they are cohesive BOTH musically AND thematically. War comes very close in both regards, but not quite to the same extent as the aforementioned albums, UF has musical coherence but not much of a thematic one, although the abstract nature of the lyrics actually allows the listener to form interpretations of his own (save perhaps Pride), which REALLY makes that album a mindfuck.

Which is essentially my problem with the last 2 albums. They have tunes by the dozen, but when you write and produce every song from the point of view of a 'tune' or a single, you have to make them stand out from each other and you lose musical cohesiveness, and that for me is what really constitutes artistic depth. Albums like UF, The Joshue Tree and Achtung all feel like trips. Thats amazing. A song like Wire or Indian Summer Sky doesn't perhaps get as many plays as Pride, but it has an importance beyond itself. My personal preference is that U2's next album (and all henceforth) should be albums in the true sense, even if it means less huge single-worthy material.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

To the above couple of posts:

 

[AtomicBono]

Completely agree with everything you say here. What makes Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby so great IMO is that they are cohesive BOTH musically AND thematically. War comes very close in both regards, but not quite to the same extent as the aforementioned albums, UF has musical coherence but not much of a thematic one, although the abstract nature of the lyrics actually allows the listener to form interpretations of his own (save perhaps Pride), which REALLY makes that album a mindfuck.

Which is essentially my problem with the last 2 albums. They have tunes by the dozen, but when you write and produce every song from the point of view of a 'tune' or a single, you have to make them stand out from each other and you lose musical cohesiveness, and that for me is what really constitutes artistic depth. Albums like UF, The Joshue Tree and Achtung all feel like trips. Thats amazing. A song like Wire or Indian Summer Sky doesn't perhaps get as many plays as Pride, but it has an importance beyond itself. My personal preference is that U2's next album (and all henceforth) should be albums in the true sense, even if it means less huge single-worthy material.

A-fuckin-men.

Really, out of all the U2 albums, the last two have the least cohesiveness, imo. Especially How to Dismantle. it's probably their best collection of songs in that there's no obvious weak track, but as an album it's their worst. Which puts it at #4 for me.

I too hope that for the next album they go for something that's more complete, even if not every song is single material.

 

[lazarus]

Completely agree with everything you say here. What makes Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby so great IMO is that they are cohesive BOTH musically AND thematically. War comes very close in both regards, but not quite to the same extent as the aforementioned albums, UF has musical coherence but not much of a thematic one, although the abstract nature of the lyrics actually allows the listener to form interpretations of his own (save perhaps Pride), which REALLY makes that album a mindfuck.

Which is essentially my problem with the last 2 albums. They have tunes by the dozen, but when you write and produce every song from the point of view of a 'tune' or a single, you have to make them stand out from each other and you lose musical cohesiveness, and that for me is what really constitutes artistic depth. Albums like UF, The Joshue Tree and Achtung all feel like trips. Thats amazing. A song like Wire or Indian Summer Sky doesn't perhaps get as many plays as Pride, but it has an importance beyond itself. My personal preference is that U2's next album (and all henceforth) should be albums in the true sense, even if it means less huge single-worthy material.

Again someone else saying better what I was trying to. One could argue that by the time you get to Ultraviolet, the novelty of the Achtung "sound" has worn off (it almost sounds like Achtung by numbers). But because it maintains the darkness and edge of what comes before it, you are already in the mood required to hear the song in context, to receive its full effect. Ultraviolet iscompelling in its own right, and is part of the overall power of the album, but is it single material? No way in hell.

To reduce it to a pure slogan, an album full of great singles does not equal a masterpiece, it is the enemy of the masterpiece. Because a single suggests something that is instantly ear-catching, and does not require you to go deeper. Something like Bad, Bullet the Blue Sky, Exit, Dirty Day, Please, Acrobat...they are songs that are part of something larger. The first two just seem like singles because they have become classics due to the majesty of their live performances. And these are the types of songs missing from the last two records. Look at how many of those evolved from their original live recordings. Have ANY of the recent songs gone through that kind of transformation? Their structures tell me that's not likely--I don't see Crumbs birthing some instrumental section with Bono ad libbing some stream of consciousness material, for example.

 

[Sleep Over Jack]

An album full of singles can still be a masterpiece..you have a narrow view of what it takes to make a great album..Revolver, Rubber Soul most of the songs on those albums are pretty much single-type songs and yet as albums they work immensely. I think ATYCLB, HTDAAB are excellent and could have been masterpieces had there been tracklist changes a few different songs used etc and more cohesive, overall production. having said all that, I would like a more overall "concept" album from U2 again.

 

[U2DMfan]

I think ATYCLB, HTDAAB are excellent and could have been masterpieces had there been tracklist changes a few different songs used etc and more cohesive, overall production.

I think Bono would probably agree with you.

Personally, I think what he is saying in the very last comment about the "sum of the parts" is more or less "we didn't put the right songs on the album". At least that's what I'd agree with.

 

[cobl04]

Re: Re: Bono reviewing U2 albums

That's what I was thinking..... For some reason even though I like all the songs, the album doesn't really strike me as that great.

Shit that's weird...the lowest rating for any song on that album for me is a 3.5...I love it but I think the same.

 

[lazarus]

An album full of singles can still be a masterpiece..you have a narrow view of what it takes to make a great album..Revolver, Rubber Soul most of the songs on those albums are pretty much single-type songs and yet as albums they work immensely. I think ATYCLB, HTDAAB are excellent and could have been masterpieces had there been tracklist changes a few different songs used etc and more cohesive, overall production. having said all that, I would like a more overall "concept" album from U2 again.

Well the difference there is that The Beatles were on the rise with those albums, building up to the peak of their careers. U2 is at the other end. Let It Be has some great songs on there, but it's a bit slight. And U2 did the exact same thing, attempting to "Get Back" (Let It Be was originally to be titled after that song) to something that felt more grounded. I'd argue both ATYCLB and HTDAAB are more accomplished than Let it Be, but can they split the difference between their incarnations like The Beatles subsequently did and give us an Abbey Road (which was released before Let it Be but recorded after)? The Beatles only needed one album to get that roots crap out of their systems before giving us higher concept gems like Come Together, I Want You (She's So Heavy) [perhaps Mercy is comparable to that?], and the medley that makes up Side Two. Many feel Abbey Road is among their 3 or 4 best albums. I don't know in 30 years if ATYCLB or The Bomb will really be spoken of that highly alongside JT and AB.

And I'd argue that Revolver is a lot more than a collection of songs. It may not be conceptual the way that Sgt Pepper is, but for the first time the songs all seemed to be cut from the same sonic cloth. Well, Lennon's and Harrison's at least.

More importantly, Revolver is the first Beatles album that could really be called "artsy" or experimental. Sure, they brought in the Indian musician to play sitar on Rubber Soul's Norweigan Wood, but Revolver is where the drug influence and psychedelia really take hold. I'm Only Sleeping, Tomorrow Never Knows and He Said She Said are worlds away from what came before it, and the jump to Sgt. Peppers actually seems less radical by comparison. Even the McCartney material takes giant steps in sophistication with Eleanor Rigby, Good Day Sunshine, and Got To Get You Into My Life. Conversely, Rubber Soul is a great recording but not a great "album" in the sense we're talking. They were still song-minded at that point, even if they were trying a few new things. It's like U2's War in that regard.

 

[U2girl]

I agree with the earlier post on an album not needing to be a "journey" to be a good album. This is all my opinion though, and I'm sure everyone listens to an album their own way.

I always find that I listen to a new album like I would listen to a Greatest Hits CD. I listen to each song individually like they aren't connected to the previous or next one. This way, I have found, lets me enjoy the music alot more. (once again, I realize this may not work for others) I can listen to Vertigo, LAPOE, and ABOY if I want a little more rocking vibe a certain day, or go to Sometimes and Original if I wan't more slow beautiful music. I don't need a "mood" to my albums, and that's why I love HTDAAB so much more than ATYCLB. Because I love the SONGS more. The album is so all over the place that it can't settle on a mood. They really are an amazing collection of songs. I agree with Bono on that point.

When I count up my favorite songs that I like to listen to on each U2 album I find alot of them end up having about 7-8 with maybe like 3 or 4 songs I can live without. On HTDAAB though, I have 10 that I love! More than any of their other albums. I think alot of the flack that the last two albums get on these forums are because they're not 90's geared. They play it "safe" and don't follow the whole techno-funk devil-horn-wearing glow-stick-waving persona that U2 wanted to run towards in that decade, climaxing in Pop. And seeing as ALOT of people seem to worhsip at the foot of that album here, it's understandable that the two most recent releases are badmouthed the way they are. I don't think its fair though. You can't expect a middle-aged man to come out and sing a song called "Mofo" and prance around in a muscle costume. It just isn't U2 anymore. At least not to me.

Anyway, I felt like ranting and agreeing with Bono's opinions on their albums. I'll give someone else a turn now. lol.

Good post. I would say AB is their only real theme album.

Speaking of Beatles, when I was getting into their music I was interested in hearing Sgt Pepper for its concept album fame. Same goes for Abbey Road being hailed as one of their best.

Neither do much for me, from their late era I'd much rather listen to White album or the much maligned Let it be.

 

[LuvandPeace1980]

Re: Re: Bono reviewing U2 albums

That's what I was thinking..... For some reason even though I like all the songs, the album doesn't really strike me as that great.

I strongly agree with all this analyzing and am glad i am not the only one who feels this way..
I always thought HTDAAB needed some instumental songs and/or a few quieter songs to create a mood. Every song is this big idea by itself.
It never really has an ongoing atmosphere as a whole. Each song is musically unrelated to the next it seems. Every song sounds so different from the next.
Every song on Achtung Baby relates to each other in one way or another not just topically but also musically, thats the same with UF and JT too, even Boy. With HTDAAB and ATYCLB it's only topically that the songs relate to each other and not always musically. I think it's important for great albums to be remembered as a whole rather than great songs. I know for one I prefer it.

 

[phanan]

Completely agree with everything you say here. What makes Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby so great IMO is that they are cohesive BOTH musically AND thematically. War comes very close in both regards, but not quite to the same extent as the aforementioned albums, UF has musical coherence but not much of a thematic one, although the abstract nature of the lyrics actually allows the listener to form interpretations of his own (save perhaps Pride), which REALLY makes that album a mindfuck.

Which is essentially my problem with the last 2 albums. They have tunes by the dozen, but when you write and produce every song from the point of view of a 'tune' or a single, you have to make them stand out from each other and you lose musical cohesiveness, and that for me is what really constitutes artistic depth. Albums like UF, The Joshue Tree and Achtung all feel like trips. Thats amazing. A song like Wire or Indian Summer Sky doesn't perhaps get as many plays as Pride, but it has an importance beyond itself. My personal preference is that U2's next album (and all henceforth) should be albums in the true sense, even if it means less huge single-worthy material.

This has been an excellent thread, with many well-thought posts.

And that alternate track listing of ATYCLB that lazarus posted does indeed work much better. It puts the album in a whole new light, really.

 

[LemonAid]

Re: Re: Re: Bono reviewing U2 albums

I strongly agree with all this analyzing and am glad i am not the only one who feels this way..
I always thought HTDAAB needed some instumental songs and/or a few quieter songs to create a mood. Every song is this big idea by itself.
It never really has an ongoing atmosphere as a whole. Each song is musically unrelated to the next it seems. Every song sounds so different from the next.

Well said, you're completely right. Every song on Bomb feels like it was written in an isolated environment to have the MAXIMUM U2 EFFECT if you know what I mean....from the very beginning I was drawn to One Step Closer as it acts as a small comtemplative breather with no 'big idea' it feels it has to sell......jst drifts in and drifts out...

Back before the album came out, there was a rumour on here of an instrumental song on the album which got me so excited, now I know why..... because, in itself, it speaks of an album with a theme....where words are not needed to dictate that theme.....just like the effect that 4th of July has on Unforgettable Fire....you can cut that atmosphere with a knife...

here's to another 'journey'....

(fantastic thread by the way, with some great insight..)

 

[lazarus]

Good post. I would say AB is their only real theme album.

...and you would be wrong. In terms of thematics, The Joshua Tree is mostly about America, the country and the continents, and if you watch the Classic Albums documentary the band members and producers explicitly say that it was conceptual.

Bono says in the recent RS interview that Zooropa was a kind of concept album. I was hearing that back when it came out. At the end of Achtung Baby we exit the personal where Bono says "dream out loud", which becomes the opening call on the next album--"she's gonna dream up the world she wants to live in/dream out loud". This seems to be the point of departure for the rest of the recording.

One could even argue that POP has a thematic cohesion, with its ruminations on crises of faith. That doubt is found on Discotheque, MOFO, If God, SATS, LNOE, Gone, Playboy, Please, and WUDM. That's sounds like a theme to me.

 

[AtomicBono]

...and you would be wrong. In terms of thematics, The Joshua Tree is mostly about America, the country and the continents, and if you watch the Classic Albums documentary the band members and producers explicitly say that it was conceptual.

Bono says in the recent RS interview that Zooropa was a kind of concept album. I was hearing that back when it came out. At the end of Achtung Baby we exit the personal where Bono says "dream out loud", which becomes the opening call on the next album--"she's gonna dream up the world she wants to live in/dream out loud". This seems to be the point of departure for the rest of the recording.

One could even argue that POP has a thematic cohesion, with its ruminations on crises of faith. That doubt is found on Discotheque, MOFO, If God, SATS, LNOE, Gone, Playboy, Please, and WUDM. That's sounds like a theme to me.

and what about Boy? Innocence. I don't know if I'd assert it as a concept album, but the songs certainly tie together thematically as well as musically. Really, every U2 album has themes that run through it, the last two included. However, I'd say that How to Dismantle especially is a bit "all over the place". Bono says the album is about a loss of innocence, which I can see in some songs certainly, but the theme isn't as pronounced this time around. I'm not saying Bono needs to hold up a big neon sign that says "THIS ALBUM'S THEME IS...," but for some reason the songs on Hutdab just don't tie together well for me. I think part of it is the fact that they spent so damn long on it and switched to Lillywhite at the end. Had they been satisfied and released the album they had ready to go in 2003, I think it would have felt more like an album.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

The best way I could describe the listening experience of The Bomb from start to finish is by saying it feels like U2 recorded 3 or 4 albums between 2001 and 2004, and this is the Greatest Hits from that period. You're left wanting because as much as U2 can write a single, it's not what makes them. They are so much more than a singles band and I feel like I've missed the 20+ songs that should be in between those on The Bomb. Leaves me dry.

I think it's been an honest experiment by them, this album of singles or album of songs, but like all their honest experiments I'm sure they are learning the good and the bad, and it sounds like Bono realises The Bombs major glaring flaw.

 

[doctorwho]

Same. And if Bono doesn't like some of his lyrics from the 80s... "The air is heavy, heavy as a truck," anyone?

PLEASE stop picking on this one token lyric. It's not nearly as bad as so many of you claim. Also, I can think of countless items from other albums - including the ones Bono loves - that are far worst. Lastly, that song also contains some brilliant lyrics - among Bono's best, IMO.

 

[typhoon]

LET'S SEE COLORS THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN SEEN
LET'S SING CLICHES NO ONE ELSE HAS SINGED

(Edit: Baby, don't cry.)

 

[Earnie Shavers]

"The sea it swells, like a sore head and the night it is aching. Two lovers lie with no sheets on their bed, and the day it is breaking"



"If the sky can crack, there must be someway back"

 

[typhoon]

Bono really proves himself a master of simile too:

"It's hot as hell"--hackneyed stock phrase--"honey, in this room. Sure hope the weather will break soon."

"The air is heavy, heavy as a truck"--OH GOD, FORGET WHAT I SAID, GO BACK TO THE HACKNEYED CRAP.

(Edit: Almost forgot my favorite line:

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY!)

 

[tomtom]

and what about Boy? Innocence. I don't know if I'd assert it as a concept album, but the songs certainly tie together thematically as well as musically. Really, every U2 album has themes that run through it, the last two included. However, I'd say that How to Dismantle especially is a bit "all over the place". Bono says the album is about a loss of innocence, which I can see in some songs certainly, but the theme isn't as pronounced this time around. I'm not saying Bono needs to hold up a big neon sign that says "THIS ALBUM'S THEME IS...," but for some reason the songs on Hutdab just don't tie together well for me. I think part of it is the fact that they spent so damn long on it and switched to Lillywhite at the end. Had they been satisfied and released the album they had ready to go in 2003, I think it would have felt more like an album.

Totally agree with you there - a lot of the same musings, hopes, fears run through many different songs. What's great is that it doesnt even seem to be calculated - its just what was on Bono's mind all the time back then, growing up. It's there on I Will Follow ('a boy tries hard..."), Twilight, its the fucking subject of the song, Out of Control ("18 years are dawning"), Stories for Boys, Into the Heart. And whats more amazing is that some dude who never went to college could synthesize these ideas and conver tthem into vocal melodies when he was all of 18 years old. Extraordinary.

 

[tomtom]

Bono really proves himself a master of simile too:

"It's hot as hell"--hackneyed stock phrase--"honey, in this room. Sure hope the weather will break soon."

"The air is heavy, heavy as a truck"--OH GOD, FORGET WHAT I SAID, GO BACK TO THE HACKNEYED CRAP.

Seriously. I was so damn afraid that lyrics on HTDAAB songs would be at that level that I welcomed every second millionth kneel deal feel meal eel steal bumfakrdieeel couplet that showed up.

Actually, I think the lyrics on HTDAAB are pretty good. None of them make me cringe the way ES does. I tried for so long to convince myself that it was 'drug' not truck. Then U2.com comes up with the official lyrics and all my dreams are shattered.

 

[AtomicBono]

Seriously. I was so damn afraid that lyrics on HTDAAB songs would be at that level that I welcomed every second millionth kneel deal feel meal eel steal bumfakrdieeel couplet that showed up on that album.

I actually love Electrical Storm, lyrically I feel it's a mixed bag. I love the imagery of "swimming in the sound" and the line "dreaming someone else's dream." I llike the chorus, simple as it may be. I can identify with the line "You're in my mind/All of the time/I know that's not enough." The truck line bothers me a bit but I really wish Bono could have thought of something better to sing than "Baby don't cry" at the end, because the end of the song is baller.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

"In later years John commented that, although ‘Sgt Pepper’ is referred to as the first concept album, "it doesn’t go anywhere." He pointed out that his contributions to the album have absolutely nothing to do with the idea of Sgt Pepper and his band. "It works", John said, "because we said it worked." He went on to say that the album was not put together as a concept album. The idea of presenting the album as a ‘concept’ was an after-thought. Apart from the intro and reprise, according to John, "every other song could have been on any other album."

Sgt Pepper is all smoke and mirrors.

Thats interesting stuff... not hard to believe either.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

"The sea it swells, like a sore head and the night it is aching. Two lovers lie with no sheets on their bed, and the day it is breaking"



"If the sky can crack, there must be someway back"

LOL... U2 trying to be Coldplay but failing?

Seriously, I just can't see what so's great about Electrical Storm lyrically or musically. I just like the title to be honest.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

I agree with most of what Bono says about HTDAAB, and all the other albums.

I however believe there is cohesiveness with ATYCLB b/c it is a meditative album and sonically cohesive b/c the ambience in the album. More befitting of the title of Man as opposed to HTDAAB which does seem all over the place.

I REALLY hope there is more "sonic sophistication" on the next album b/c IMO the lyrics are relatively strong on HTDAAB IMO its just sonically it is lacking with maybe Vertigo and COBL being the strongest. Unfortunately Vertigo is derivative to a degree which takes away from that fact.

 

[bcrt2000]

I really have a feeling if they left off One Step Closer and put on Electrical Storm (orbit mix) HTDAAB would probably be considered one of their greatest albums.. HTDAAB was just missing that one song.. and i think Eelectrical Storm was probably that one song, and it could have allowed them to rearrange the tracklist to make it stronger... with ATYCLB they frontloaded all of the great songs, so even though most of the songs aren't that great, the first few tracks really get you into it. With HTDAAB they tried to spread out the tracklisting a little and it didn't quite work out.. if they had started off with Vertigo, ABOY, Love and Peace, Sometimes, in that order, it would be much more like ATYCLB by putting all of the songs with energy at the start

an album like AB, there were a couple of songs that may be considered weak, but i think that there was so little filler on that album that even the songs that you didn't like initially you fell in love with

 

[jacobus]

bcrt200 wrote: I really have a feeling if they left off One Step Closer and put on Electrical Storm (orbit mix) HTDAAB would probably be considered one of their greatest albums..

imho ES is one of the worst songs ever. i don't like at all the Orbit Mix, 'cause i don't like this kind of fluffy sound at all. this is pseudo rock. useless stuff, like the other bad song of this era THTBA
for me OSC is one of the better songs on the last album.

i read boners' interview and the best part was when he praised AB & ZOOROPA its great to hear that he can't understand that some people marry to the sound of ONE 'cause its a separation song good on you boner.

but in general he just talk way too much. imo the U2 albums of the 2000s are mediocre. nothing special except LAPOE, OSC, IALW, the altern. YAHWEH and the last minute of ABOY