Bob Rock wants to work with U2

[TheBrazilianFly]

http://www.canada.com/victoriatimes....html?id=837c6d48-32ee-4b2c-9423-d42b27abff82

I found this article at the Metallica message board. I don't know if this has been posted or not but Bob Rock says he wants to produce U2 (he even mentions them on the SKOM film). I think it could work, U2 wanted to sound harder and they didn’t really got there in my opinion (at least not on the record), they got close but not quite, I think Bob Rock would be the one who could get them there. Like him I also think this is never going to happen but it would be cool if they tried this out for a couple of songs just to see what happens. It could work.

 

[coolian2]

He's got the name for it.

 

[The John Tree]

If you've ever seen Bob's approach in the Metallica films "A Year And A Half In The Life of Metallica' as well as "Some Kind of Monster", he's a terrific producer.

Ironically, Metallica and Bob have decided to temporarily place their working relationship to the side so that Metallica can work with (dum dum duuum)...Rick Rubin, who will begin recording their new CD this month.

 

[Allanah]

Interesting idea, Bob Rock with U2. When it comes to records that simply sound great from a production standpoint, it's hard to do better than Bob Rock. The music jumps out of the speakers and into the room -- anyone who's ever cranked Metallica's black album knows what I mean. I don't know what sort of effect he'd have on U2's songwriting/arranging, but given who he's worked with in the past, I'd expect a harder-rocking U2 if he ever collaborated with them. That's just fine by me, too, since I think most people (the general public, that is, not hardcore fans) severely underestimate U2's capacity to rock, and rock hard. Bring it on, says I. I'd love to hear it.

And hey, my first post! Hi, everyone.

 

[Dorian Gray]

all I have to offer is a pessimistic "blah!"

 

[TheBrazilianFly]

Interesting idea, Bob Rock with U2. When it comes to records that simply sound great from a production standpoint, it's hard to do better than Bob Rock. The music jumps out of the speakers and into the room -- anyone who's ever cranked Metallica's black album knows what I mean. I don't know what sort of effect he'd have on U2's songwriting/arranging, but given who he's worked with in the past, I'd expect a harder-rocking U2 if he ever collaborated with them. That's just fine by me, too, since I think most people (the general public, that is, not hardcore fans) severely underestimate U2's capacity to rock, and rock hard. Bring it on, says I. I'd love to hear it.

And hey, my first post! Hi, everyone.

Great first post. I totally agree. The Black Album, Load and Reload sound really, really good, even years after they were made and have a great sound. I'm particularly fond of the Loads sound, it's a strong band sound and extremely well produced with never going over the top, great stuff. Bob Rock has worked with bands that have a very hard sound so he would know how to make the band not only sound harder (Edge obviously can get the right guitar sound too) but would know how to make the songwriting a bit more aggressive and on your face. I think when U2 wants to get more aggressive what they do is just make the guitar sound more like that and not the song itself, and exemple would be the Vertigo chorus, (as amazing songwriters that they are, they are still human beings) and Bob Rock would know where to lead them and get that harder and more aggressive feel to the songs I think. They could still bring Steve Lilywhite and Daniel Lanois to give their opinions on the songs if they felt it was necessary.

 

[Chizip]

Didn't he produce St Anger?

 

[LyricalDrug]

It'd be cool if he produced a couple of their inherently "harder" tracks, and then left the rest of the tracks to, say, Eno/Lanois or Rick Rubin. (like a Vertigo, Love and Peace, or All Because of You)

 

[TheBrazilianFly]

Didn't he produce St Anger?

It took longer than I expected for someone to bring that one up. Yes, he certainly did. And I fucking love it! The idea of the record (after The Black Album and the Loads) was for it to be under produced, to be raw and simple, very garage like and not get too anal about it. The record still sounds great in my opinion, you can hear the band very well and it fits the kind of raw and on your face style of songwriting. It was a different kind of production approach. I dig it.

 

[TheBrazilianFly]

It'd be cool if he produced a couple of their inherently "harder" tracks, and then left the rest of the tracks to, say, Eno/Lanois or Rick Rubin. (like a Vertigo, Love and Peace, or All Because of You)

Yeah, I wouldn't mind that either but I wouldn't mind if he gave his opinion on the other tracks as well so the record had one unified sound and didn’t sound like many records in one (like HTDAAB does in my opinion).

 

[J_NP]

Didn't he produce St Anger?

If the fella managed to get a metallica album with no solos , imagine in u2 Besides the drums sounds crap in that album , Sorry Metallica , better sorry for St Anger's Album , but I think some Metallica songs are good , but from that album

 

[Allanah]

Yeah, the St. Anger drum sound... the snare kills me. A snare that goes "ping"? Sorry, Bob, but that sounded like crap. I know what the band was going for with that record. I think they accomplished it, but I don't think it was a good idea in the first place. Though I can say from experience that songs from St. Anger absolutely kill live.

And yes, BrazilianFly, the Black/Load/Reload sound is the one I'd be more interested in for U2. Even 10-15 years later, it doesn't sound dated. Fantastic stuff.

Did anyone ever see VH1's "Classic Albums" for Metallica's black album? I can't remember which song it was, but they played a guitar bit that didn't make into the final mix, one that Hetfield referred to as the "U2 guitars." He initially hated it, but listening back a decade later, he said it sounded great and wished someone had convinced him to leave it in. Go figure.

 

[TheBrazilianFly]

Did anyone ever see VH1's "Classic Albums" for Metallica's black album? I can't remember which song it was, but they played a guitar bit that didn't make into the final mix, one that Hetfield referred to as the "U2 guitars." He initially hated it, but listening back a decade later, he said it sounded great and wished someone had convinced him to leave it in. Go figure.

Yeah, I love that. I think the part that James was talking about is something that is on the album, I think it's what Kirk plays during the chorus on Sad But True, the "I'm your dream, make you real..." part, he certainly plays it live. And it does sound like Edge. I love the fact that James not only knows the U2 sound but the expression he did when he heard that part and the way he said "Yeah, Kirk's U2 guitar!" is great. Kind of a little dream come true moment if you are a U2 and Metallica fan.

 

[Allanah]

That's it! Thanks; I've only seen that special once (and several years ago), so I couldn't remember any specifics. I know that Lars is a fan, but I wonder how the rest of the band regards U2.

And yeah, Metallica was my first musical obsession, so that was a very cool moment for me -- even if I wasn't fully into U2 at the time. Looking back on it, it makes me smile.

 

[david]

doesn't metallica have a fanbase much like U2's that is torn between their 80's work and their 90's work?

 

[Allanah]

Not necessarily; I'm one of those people who loves both 80s and 90s U2, as well as 80s and 90s Metallica. But for the most part, I'd say yes. A lot of Metallica fans don't care for their material from "Load" and beyond.

 

[TheBrazilianFly]

doesn't metallica have a fanbase much like U2's that is torn between their 80's work and their 90's work?

Very much so I think, which sucks. But not everybody is like that, there are many fans who like both decades. Actually Metallica and U2 have a very similar career in many ways.

 

[Dutch Partygirl]

On some of the later Metallica albums the drums sound like Lars was using oil drums instead of an actual drumkit. So no, I'm not a big fan of Bob Rock.

 

[The John Tree]

Well actually, that would only be the last album, and it was intentional.

And it's not Bob Rock's fault. The band had a sound they were going for, and Bob helped them achieve that. It was the band's call.

Which is a statement similar to something Adam Clayton has once said about Brian Eno.

Bob also has the utmost respect for U2. During "Some Kind of Monster", Metallica is filmed as they are debating whether they should film a corny radio commercial. They don't want to do it because they think it will compromise their integrity. Bob, to back the point up, says to the band "I can't imagine Bono or The Edge going on the radio and saying what you guys are being asked to say."

Similarly, Lars and Kirk (drummer and lead guitarist) are publicly known to be U2 fans. Lars has a relationship with the band, as he has talked about his relationship with Adam (they both share a love for Basquiat paintings). Also, when U2 played Copenhagen, Lars was backstage and hung out with the band and U2 played "Enter Sandman" at the end of Vertigo.

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

I love Rock's production of The Cult, Mötley Crüe and Metallica (too name a small few), so I wonder what U2 would sound like...

I don't know that it would completely work, but it could produce some very interesting music (uptempo?).

 

[U2girl]

U2 going metal? I'll believe it when it happens.

 

[ahittle]

Irk. Bob Rock's sound is a cornerstone of dude-rock. Unless U2 is planning a tour of frat houses, I would discourage this.

 

[lazarus]

Irk. Bob Rock's sound is a cornerstone of dude-rock. Unless U2 is planning a tour of frat houses, I would discourage this.

Thank you. Finally the voice of reason.

And as an old school Metallica fan, I can tell you that myself and many others fell out of love with the band when the Black Album came out. Metallica tempered their epic, unique style into radio-friendly nugget shorter songs, and were the worse for it. While they certainly went on to record some decent songs, there is NOTHING that comes anywhere near the level of Master of Puppets (the album). Nothing.

And knowing that Bob Rock produced Motley Crue doesn't help either. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he work with Bon Jovi too? I don't want that cheese shit anywhere near U2.

 

[Allanah]

As someone who loves both old- and new-school Metallica stuff, I can honestly say I've never understood the "This is watered-down Metallica!" argument when it comes to the Black Album. As much as I adore "...And Justice For All," a lot of the songs on there are pretty bloated. From a songwriting standpoint, I much prefer the Black Album, because everything about it is in service of the songs themselves. One person's "epic" is another person's "now they're just showing off how fast they can play, and it's getting annoying."

This, of course, is all in my own humble personal opinion. It's also drifting off-topic, but I'll bring it back to U2: this is why I like Edge so much. There's nothing extraneous in his playing, but it still kicks ass. That's something every guitarist should do, I think: ask him- (or her-)self, "Does what I'm playing actually have a point, or is it the musical equivalent of wanking off?"

And who cares who Bob Rock has produced? From a production standpoint, his records sound amazing. From what I understand, Metallica approached him because of his work with Bon Jovi; they didn't want to write songs like Bon Jovi, but they certainly loved Bon Jovi's drum sound. Hell, Rick Rubin has worked with Run-DMC and the Dixie Chicks, but that doesn't mean that his next record with a rock band will be rap- or country-influenced.

 

[If you shout...]

all I have to offer is a pessimistic "blah!"

I agree wholeheartedly, but I'll also offer two more words which people are sure, yet the fuck again, to ignore: DAVE FRIDMANN.

 

[lazarus]

As someone who loves both old- and new-school Metallica stuff, I can honestly say I've never understood the "This is watered-down Metallica!" argument when it comes to the Black Album. As much as I adore "...And Justice For All," a lot of the songs on there are pretty bloated. From a songwriting standpoint, I much prefer the Black Album, because everything about it is in service of the songs themselves. One person's "epic" is another person's "now they're just showing off how fast they can play, and it's getting annoying."

This, of course, is all in my own humble personal opinion. It's also drifting off-topic, but I'll bring it back to U2: this is why I like Edge so much. There's nothing extraneous in his playing, but it still kicks ass. That's something every guitarist should do, I think: ask him- (or her-)self, "Does what I'm playing actually have a point, or is it the musical equivalent of wanking off?"

And who cares who Bob Rock has produced? From a production standpoint, his records sound amazing. From what I understand, Metallica approached him because of his work with Bon Jovi; they didn't want to write songs like Bon Jovi, but they certainly loved Bon Jovi's drum sound. Hell, Rick Rubin has worked with Run-DMC and the Dixie Chicks, but that doesn't mean that his next record with a rock band will be rap- or country-influenced.

Funny that Metallica was led to Bob Rock through Bon Jovi, yet you claim they didn't want to write songs like them. Regardless, the result was shorter, slower, watered-down material that was much more accessible for radio listeners. You want to call it chopping off the fat, I call it part of a long sellout (add that to the "well never make a music video" and "we'll never play arenas"). I try not to throw the word sellout around, because I'm all for a band's growth, but Metallica's music actually became LESS sophisticated when they changed gears. Their visceral but ultimately empty attempt to "go hard and long" again with St. Anger shows you how far they've fallen creatively in the intervening years.

You claim to be an old-school Metallica fan, yet I find it strange that you'd even suggest "now they're just showing off how fast they can play". That's the exact opposite of what Metallica did on their longer songs, which had ebbs and flows to give the piece a greater breadth (the title song on Master of Puppets, for example). And while I agree with you that the Edge's restraint is part of what makes him so great, that's not what I'm looking for when it comes to heavy metal, especially when it comes to Metallica. The Black Album may be important because it brought in all the new fans, but what they had to do to achieve that is suspect, in my opinion.

And certainly you can't be telling me that Bob Rock can be mentioned along the same lines as Rick Rubin, who went from hip-hop into producing a very diverse slate of artists. Rock, by comparison, has been in the rock ghetto since he became famous, producing few records by notable artists. Go Wikipedia him and take a look. I find it particularly telling that I found this line in his entry: "His trademark sound is a "loud" mix with reverb that has commercial appeal."

Alternately, to paraphrase Falkner, "a record produced by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

 

[No spoken words]

I love Rock's production of The Cult, Mötley Crüe and Metallica (too name a small few), so I wonder what U2 would sound like...

I don't know that it would completely work, but it could produce some very interesting music (uptempo?).

Reggie likes the Crue? Wha? Huh??



It always cracks me up that Metallica were convinced that Bob Rock was a good producer when they heard "Dr. Feelgood" and figured if Bob Rock could make the Crue sound good, he could help Metallica out.

I'd not mind like one U2 song produced by Rock, out of sheer curiosity, but not a whole album A whole Rubin produced album would greatly interest me.

 

[Salome]

just about any producer would like to have a shot at it with U2

 

[U2DMfan]

There are very few producers you can point to as the catalyst (or at least one of them) to the demise of a great band.

Bob Rock is one of them.

Needless to say, I agree with everything Lazarus said.

Really, I don't care who they get to produce (I do have some wishes), as long as it's productive and we don't have to wait until 2009 for another middle of the road record. It will come down to the creative energy and the songs. If the songs are there, it could be just about anybody and it could end up great or it may end up with the same sugar coated method.

I fear U2 is done with subtlety and dirt.
Bob Rock would fit with that, so a big "fuck no" to him.

 

[Allanah]

Funny that Metallica was led to Bob Rock through Bon Jovi, yet you claim they didn't want to write songs like them.

You really believe Metallica sat down and said, "We need songs like 'Wanted Dead or Alive' and 'Living on a Prayer'"? Loving the drum sound on Bon Jovi's records is what led them to Bob Rock, not wanting to write songs like them. And let's face it, the production on "Justice" was horrible.

Regardless, the result was shorter, slower, watered-down material that was much more accessible for radio listeners.

When your songs are as fast and long as the ones on "Justice," what other possible direction is there than shorter and slower? A collection of 12-minute, 300 bpm songs? These guys were already packing arenas and had gold and platinum albums. It's not like they were hurting for money and this was their one last stab at success.

You want to call it chopping off the fat, I call it part of a long sellout (add that to the "well never make a music video" and "we'll never play arenas"). I try not to throw the word sellout around, because I'm all for a band's growth, but Metallica's music actually became LESS sophisticated when they changed gears. Their visceral but ultimately empty attempt to "go hard and long" again with St. Anger shows you how far they've fallen creatively in the intervening years.

I can't win this argument; I've had it a million times, but the main issue that former fans seem to have is that Metallica is no longer the speed-metal band that they loved in the 80s. God forbid they make music that's classified as "hard rock" rather than "metal." Good music is good music no matter how you slice it, and I can listen to Load just as easily as I can Ride the Lightning. Flawed as St. Anger is, I think it'd be a great record if the songs were trimmed down (again, they're too long) and the drum sound was better. Apparently, this is selling out.

It's also easy to say that you'll never make a video when you're a snot-nosed 19 year-old punk and Michael Jackson, Quiet Riot, Poison, and Duran Duran dominate MTV. Same with saying you'll never play arenas when you don't have enough fans to fill them up.

U2 runs into this on a smaller scale (Pop, anyone?), and I think it's a silly argument when applied to them as well. I love Pop as much as I love War; it's not an issue of how I think the band is supposed to sound.

You claim to be an old-school Metallica fan, yet I find it strange that you'd even suggest "now they're just showing off how fast they can play".

You caught me. I lied about being a fan of the older stuff. Except that I own the records, listen to them, and enjoy them.

That's the exact opposite of what Metallica did on their longer songs, which had ebbs and flows to give the piece a greater breadth (the title song on Master of Puppets, for example).

On some of their longer songs, sure, it works. On others, it sounds like they had five extra riffs lying around and threw them into instrumental breaks.

And while I agree with you that the Edge's restraint is part of what makes him so great, that's not what I'm looking for when it comes to heavy metal, especially when it comes to Metallica.

So when I listen to Metallica, the question I should ask is, "Is this metal?" rather than "Is this any good?" Got it. I admit, they shouldn't have shoehorned themselves with their band name, but I think whether I actually like the music is more important than what genre it falls under.

And certainly you can't be telling me that Bob Rock can be mentioned along the same lines as Rick Rubin, who went from hip-hop into producing a very diverse slate of artists. Rock, by comparison, has been in the rock ghetto since he became famous, producing few records by notable artists. Go Wikipedia him and take a look. I find it particularly telling that I found this line in his entry: "His trademark sound is a "loud" mix with reverb that has commercial appeal."

My point was that a Bob Rock-produced U2 song or record is not going to sound like Bon Jovi, which is what you implied. Or rather, you didn't want that "cheesy" sound anywhere near U2 (though that's exactly how I'd describe the production on Stuck in a Moment, Miracle Drug, and COBL, to name a few.) The cheese in Bon Jovi comes from the band, not the producer. With U2, I think it's the other way around, given that I love live versions of the aforementioned songs.

A "loud" mix with commercial appeal is exactly the kind of production I'd want on U2's harder-rocking songs, so I don't think there's any chance of us seeing eye-to-eye here.