Best Album Survivor: Round Eleven

[BlueSilkenSky]

Goodbye JT.

Achtung Baby all the way!

 

[digitize]

This is much more of a blowout than I expected.

 

[lazarus]

It's not just the AB remaster reissue itself, but I imagine From The Sky Down also had a big effect on people's experience with the album.

The Classic Album Series episode for JT doesn't stack up, I guess.

 

[Nick66]

I grew up in the 80's. TJT was the first U2 album I ever owned (actually it was my brother's cassette I inherited). I adore TJT to pieces. I think it's a masterpiece. It's an all time classic. It is full of incredible work and has U2 on their A+ game, containing both their single best song and best lead single.

All that said, Achtung Baby is the best thing they've ever done. Period.

Yeah. I love Achtung Baby, it's in my top 3 U2 records, but definitely and firmly at #3 for me.

Having said that, even though it's not my top pick (I voted it out, I prefer JT), I'd have to concede it's the most complete and balanced record they've put out, and lyrically, and probably musically, their best effort. There's really not a bad song on there. I don't think it has the highs of TUF or JT, and maybe even NLOTH (MOS is their best song since Streets), but it really doesn't have any lows either. It's an incredibly "even" album, and all the songs are strong to one degree or another, some fantastically so. It's also their most important record, but that really doesn't have much to do with how I rate it musically.

So yeah, I think objectively speaking it's probably their "best" record. It's just not my favourite.

 

[God Part III]

Achtung Baby was more than just an album.

This.

 

[Axver]

I know I'm a voice in the wilderness, but JT is so far superior to Achtung. It has far better sequencing, the mixing is generally better, and the songs are consistently stronger. To me, Achtung is a patchy, uneven album that veers rapidly between its peaks and troughs, while JT - besides one big unfortunate trip (sorry) - is very even in its quality.

 

[djerdap]

Achtung Baby, aside from that slight downfall in quality with Wild Horses and So Cruel, is far more consistent than The Joshua Tree. The middle of JT is a bit of a letdown after the fantastic 5 songs (well, four actually, I never cared for I Still Haven't Found), both in terms of the strength of songs and of the general pacing. That album is so much better live. The muddy production in songs like In God's Country, Exit and Mothers of the Disappeared is the reason why I would always listen to their live counterparts. Despite the fact that most of the AB songs have tremendously improved live, I don't have that problem with it. Plus it has The Fly and Acrobat, two of my favourite U2 songs (and songs in general). It's a darker, more emotional and ultimately a much more poignant effort.

 

[the tourist]

I know I'm a voice in the wilderness, but JT is so far superior to Achtung. It has far better sequencing, the mixing is generally better, and the songs are consistently stronger. To me, Achtung is a patchy, uneven album that veers rapidly between its peaks and troughs, while JT - besides one big unfortunate trip (sorry) - is very even in its quality.

The mixing on Achtung Baby is one of the bigger trainwrecks in U2's repertoire mixing-wise. If it were put together better in that way, it'd probably be my number 2 album by U2 instead of number 4.

 

[lemonfly]

Two masterpieces (duh), but AB is more clinical and calculated, whereas the yearning present in TJT feels more organic and appeals to me more. I can get "lost" in TJT easily, even now a hundred or so spins later. It does not deserve this humiliation! Shame on you, interf!

 

[the tourist]

I know I'm a voice in the wilderness, but JT is so far superior to Achtung. It has far better sequencing, the mixing is generally better, and the songs are consistently stronger. To me, Achtung is a patchy, uneven album that veers rapidly between its peaks and troughs, while JT - besides one big unfortunate trip (sorry) - is very even in its quality.

The mixing on Achtung Baby is one of the bigger trainwrecks in U2's repertoire mixing-wise. If it were put together better in that way, it's probably be my number 2 album by U2 instead of number 4. Zooropa is guilty of the same thing in my opinion.

 

[Axver]

Achtung Baby, aside from that slight downfall in quality with Wild Horses and So Cruel, is far more consistent than The Joshua Tree. The middle of JT is a bit of a letdown after the fantastic 5 songs (well, four actually, I never cared for I Still Haven't Found), both in terms of the strength of songs and of the general pacing.

I can't agree with this, since I think JT really reaches greatness with the second half, not the first. I suppose I should point out here that it's been a long time since I've listened to JT with Trip actually in the tracklist. Red Hill, IGC, and the "suite of death" are fantastic, and when you add to that Streets, WOWY, and RTSS from the first half, you've got an incredible album ... studio Bullet shows some of its live potential too.

I suppose the one point I do agree with you about is Still Haven't Found. Apart from Trip, it's the only other song I don't care for on JT, but I like it more than at least a third of Achtung. I know my opinion is heretical around here, but I could never call AB consistent when it goes great, decent, crap, great, decent, crap, great, decent, crap, crap, great, great. If I were to put the album on right now, I'd be skipping all over the place.

 

[LemonMelon]

I find Achtung Baby and Joshua Tree to both be extremely consistent. 95% of the material on both sounds great to me. I just find the peaks of Joshua Tree to be higher, I prefer the production, and the sequencing is much better. That small handful of qualities is what puts it over the top.

 

[BlueSilkenSky]

I like love Achtung Baby more than The Joshua Tree simply because it speaks to me more, and I find it more cohesive. JT has several songs on it that I love, a few I don't care about, and two that I don't like, while AB has 11 songs that I love and 1 song that I like. Anyway, I love the lyrics and the style of the music more on Achtung Baby. I respect JT because it got me into U2, and I do love it as I love pretty much all of their albums (except War and ATCYLB), but I consider AB (and Zooropa, in fact) to be above it.

 

[gvox]

The mixing on Achtung Baby is one of the bigger trainwrecks in U2's repertoire mixing-wise.

Yep.

 

[gvox]

I find Achtung Baby and Joshua Tree to both be extremely consistent. 95% of the material on both sounds great to me. I just find the peaks of Joshua Tree to be higher, I prefer the production, and the sequencing is much better. That small handful of qualities is what puts it over the top.

I concur. There's a mountaintop to get to on JT, and man do they take us there!

 

[flybabe]

Well, this is a nobrainer. Though I love The Joshua Tree very much, and when I first heard it Red Hill Mining Town was my absolute favorite song off of the album, but the award goes to Achtung Baby for it's kick ass ingenuity.

 

[Globo14]

I love The Joshua Tree, with Streets, WOWY, Bullet, among others, but Achtung is the best, most complete album I've ever heard. It's musical bliss.

 

[lazarus]

I find Achtung Baby and Joshua Tree to both be extremely consistent. 95% of the material on both sounds great to me. I just find the peaks of Joshua Tree to be higher, I prefer the production, and the sequencing is much better. That small handful of qualities is what puts it over the top.

And what track order for AB do you think would have been better?

 

[LemonMelon]

And what track order for AB do you think would have been better?

It sure as shit would not involve So Cruel > The Fly

Or Mysterious Ways > Tryin'

Or EBTTRT > One

And don't even attempt to justify these transitions. No bullshit about "mixing it up" or "it makes sense on vinyl" or anything like that. They're awful crap. I've heard the album literally hundreds of times and have never gotten used to them. They could be better. In this one very minor aspect, teh graytest album evar is not perfect.

 

[lazarus]

It's not bullshit that this was made in the "Side One" and "Side Two" era.

I don't see anything wrong with closing out the first half on a downbeat emotional song, and opening up the second with an in-your-face rocker.

As for EBTTRT into One, doesn't bother me. I think it's when you follow a ballad like one with something totally frivolous that kills the mood.

I've never heard this complaint before.

 

[dazzledbylight]

well must leave JT behind....

i was there for JT's debut and it is a fantastic album #3 on my list.
Even with the powerful, plaintive vocals and diamond sharp clear striking colors of IGC esp in Ede's guitar work and the amazing howl & growl both in music and voice of BTBS and it's atmospherics Plus ISHFWILF, TTYW. (Streets I began to get bored of it in concert <i certainly was surprised by that> by ? '05, it's gotten better again, but not up to it's orginal highest level for me)

I love more of the song melodies in AB, and then add in all the arrangements, atmospherics and vocals.

Still no big fan of SC or LIB, but appreciate them more. One kind of sunk down too, but almost matched it's original high at my 2nd '11 360 show. Mysterious Ways (even more a suprise to me) has sunk down some. TTTYAATW was never a favorite either.

On the other hand- ZS, UTEOTW, EBTTRT, TF, UV, WGRYWH & Acrobat have remained as fantastic &strong as ever, and some have gone even higher for me!

So that's why I chose AB as #1.


And personally I prefer a broader Pantheon Level to a strict, narrow Hierarchical Ladder in cases where stats are not the pivitol, or only factor in levels from blah to extrodinariness!

 

[Vlaco]

As I said before:

JT > AB (by a small margin)
Zoo TV > JT Tour (by a (much) larger margin)

 

[An Cat Gav]

An-ti cli-mac-tic. Clap - Clap Clap-Clap-Clap
An-ti cli-mac-tic. Clap - Clap Clap-Clap-Clap

You should have tossed these two album from the jump.
The battle for #3 was actually interesting. This is a toss up between Katy Perry's boobs and Scarlet Johansen's boobs. I'll take all of the above.



I grew up in the 80's. TJT was the first U2 album I ever owned (actually it was my brother's cassette I inherited). I adore TJT to pieces. I think it's a masterpiece. It's an all time classic. It is full of incredible work and has U2 on their A+ game, containing both their single best song and best lead single.

All that said, Achtung Baby is the best thing they've ever done. Period.

I agree with everything you said, especially about the boobs.

 

[An Cat Gav]

It's not bullshit that this was made in the "Side One" and "Side Two" era.

I don't see anything wrong with closing out the first half on a downbeat emotional song, and opening up the second with an in-your-face rocker.

As for EBTTRT into One, doesn't bother me. I think it's when you follow a ballad like one with something totally frivolous that kills the mood.

I've never heard this complaint before.

Yeah So cruel to the Fly does sound weird now but back in 91 although CDs had probably overtaken LPs in popularity, albums were still sequenced as if it were for an LP, as such ending side one with So Cruel and starting side 2 with The Fly does make perfect sense.

I never really thought there was a problem with the EBTTRT One sequence, but I can see why you might. U2 seemed to go with this idea of fast song followed by a slow one quite a bit, especially with the awful idea to have Miracle Drug after Vertigo on bomb. I guess the difference is when you follow one masterpiece song with another you can get away with pretty much anything, they didn't have that luxury on Bomb.

On another note, like U2DMfan said, I too grew up in the 80s, TUF and TJT were my two favourite posessions(also inherited from my brother) but AB is far and away favourite album by anyone ever.

 

[Salome]

Achtung Baby is a brave (and at the time necessary) album with some good songs and some very clever lyrics
unfortunately the album versions of songs like Even better, Mysterious Ways, Ultraviolet and Trying to throw your arms barely do anything to me one way or the other

Joshua Tree is indeed transcendent
and its highest tops outtop all other tops available

 

[Axver]

Seems silly to me to be sequencing for vinyl rather than CDs in 1991, especially when you're aiming to release a bold album looking forwards into the nineties. Might as well embrace the medium on the ascendancy, the medium that was clearly going to be the dominant form of releasing music in that decade. It's not like it was 1984 or even 1987 and sequencing for vinyl still made sense.

But then U2 love to talk about embracing the future and rarely do much about it, e.g. Bono's blather about embracing the digital era, taking advantage of the Internet to distribute their music, concerts, etc., and then doing almost nothing about their web presence at all.

 

[Nick66]

This discussion of the "evenness" of JT vs. AB is really interesting. JT edges out AB for me, across the board, and I agree with those who say that AB can't touch JT's stratospheric highs. Given the choice between the two, I'll always pick JT.

Having said that, setting personal preferences aside, I still think that lyrically and musically, AB is a probably more complete and wholly realised record. Though it's a very close call, and reading some of these comments is making me re-evaluate that.

 

[Galeongirl]

I concur. There's a mountaintop to get to on JT, and man do they take us there!

You mean you have climbed the highest mountains?

 

[Tyagu_Anaykus]

You mean you have climbed the highest mountains?

 

[cobl04]

You mean you have climbed the highest mountains?

I don't get it.