Battle Of The Bombs (American)

[theu2fly]

Rattle And Hum vs. POP

What is the biggest flop of them all?

While America didn't get a Lovetown tour, they did have bits of songs performed and recorded for the disc. But here are my arguments for which is the biggest flop...

RATTLE AND HUM:

1) An over expressed "journey through America" -- discovering blues, country and experimenting in soul. The Voices Of Freedom contribution to "Still Haven't Found..." is rather annoying than spiritual. It becomes a face off as who can sing it more gutsy.

2) Bono being overdramatic during songs like "Silver And Gold", "Bullet The Blue Sky" and the beginning of "Helter Skelter" -- speeches that never made much sense, more goofy than actually serious.

3) Songs like "Heartland" songs hardly performed, or not even performed, perhaps the best bits off the record, shoved away in place for an unnecessary cover of "All Along The Watchtower" (this spot could have been filled better)

POP

In addition to a sold out world tour, which gradually decreased as time went on, POP had some of the strongest material written, but it's advertisment and deliverance were both poor.

1) POP conference in the KMart lingerie department... which had nothing to do with the music... okay maybe the Playboy Mansion.

2. Good music, but bad lyrics and titles. Songs like "Miami", "If You Wear That Velvet Dress", "Do You Feel Loved" musically great, but lyrically weak. These songs had been done before.

3. Perhaps one of the strongest, and underrated songs, PLEASE. U2 at it's best, and perhaps the global anthem since Sunday Bloody Sunday. But the song had dragged on more to a ramble, than a plea.

I think if we were to decide the biggest bomb in America, it would have to be Rattle And Hum, America loved U2 for it's music, but not it's message. I think that Bono, went off the deep edge, trying to bring third world politics, into American mainstream. Many people kinda were puzzled and thought "What is this?"

The film, while good for it's footage, could have been better. What was on the CD, should have been on the DVD and vice versa.

But one thing they both have in common... U2 let it all go to their heads.

 

[nightninja56]

well im seeing each of those albums as the end of a U2 'era'...so cross your fingers that the next album wont end up like those

 

[AtomicBono]

2. Good music, but bad lyrics and titles. Songs like "Miami", "If You Wear That Velvet Dress", "Do You Feel Loved" musically great, but lyrically weak. These songs had been done before.

3. Perhaps one of the strongest, and underrated songs, PLEASE. U2 at it's best, and perhaps the global anthem since Sunday Bloody Sunday. But the song had dragged on more to a ramble, than a plea.

2. Miami I can understand, what what's so lyrically bad about Velvet Dress and DYFL? "It looks like the sun/but it feels like the rain" ... very simple lyric sure, but I really like it.

3. I'm not sure what you're saying here. It's U2 at its best but it's just a ramble?

I don't think either of the albums were total flops. R&H probably sold better than Pop but I'm not sure. but really, the "failure" of both these albums is seriously overplayed, I think. It was only a failure by U2 standards.

 

[BVS]

RATTLE AND HUM:

1) An over expressed "journey through America" -- discovering blues, country and experimenting in soul. The Voices Of Freedom contribution to "Still Haven't Found..." is rather annoying than spiritual. It becomes a face off as who can sing it more gutsy.

I love it, and find nothing annoying about it at all.

2) Bono being overdramatic during songs like "Silver And Gold", "Bullet The Blue Sky" and the beginning of "Helter Skelter" -- speeches that never made much sense, more goofy than actually serious.

What speeches? The only speech is the spoken word part in Silver and Gold. And how did it not make sense? The only other speech was the SBS one in the movie.

POP

1) POP conference in the KMart lingerie department... which had nothing to do with the music... okay maybe the Playboy Mansion.

You didn't get the reason why they did the press conference in KMart? It was a big part of the theme of the tour, they even had shopping carts to help spell it out.

POP
2. Good music, but bad lyrics and titles. Songs like "Miami", "If You Wear That Velvet Dress", "Do You Feel Loved" musically great, but lyrically weak. These songs had been done before.

Where had these songs been done before?

I think if we were to decide the biggest bomb in America, it would have to be Rattle And Hum, America loved U2 for it's music, but not it's message. I think that Bono, went off the deep edge, trying to bring third world politics, into American mainstream. Many people kinda were puzzled and thought "What is this?"

I don't think people were puzzled. People already knew U2 incorporated politics into their music and shows. If anything some were annoyed by it, for some people don't like to mix politics with their music. So be it. But they weren't puzzled. And it really wasn't that much "third world politics" to begin with...








I think the reason these two albums weren't any bigger than they were is simple. With Rattle and Hum it was overexposure and with Pop it was poor PR. Pop started getting labeled "techno" early in it's release and dancing around like the Village People I think was a little too much for a lot of U2 fans.

 

[Sken]

Isn't Rattle and Hum U2's 3rd best selling album after JT and AB, not inlcuding the best of's?

I heard it sold over 14 million worldwilde, I think it was the movie that bombed, not the album.

Image killed Pop, the music was great and so was the tour.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Image killed Pop, the music was great and so was the tour.

Image and timing. U2 could have released an album better than The Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby rolled into one and it/they were destined to take a hit circa 1997.

 

[blueyedpoet]

Not finishing the record to their standards, being under-rehearsed, and not releasing the correct songs as singles is what hurt Pop.
I don't really view Rattle as a bomb. It has sold more than ATYCLB and the Bomb - whose sales are said to show that the band is still the biggest in the world.

 

[U2girl]

I think image and moreso being underrehearsed on the tour is what hurt Pop. (I don't think the famous "extra month" would have made any difference on the songs) Lyrics are actually its saving grace.
S. America and Europe (except Germany) had good attendances, but the American legs...

Rattle and Hum is too long, badly chosen mix of songs/live songs/covers and it comes across as self-indulgent. Also, U2 overload anyone? Coming off a big tour, and the very next year you come out with a book, a movie and an album. No wonder they got shot down. To U2's credit, critics misunderstood what they were saying by playing with BB King, Dylan etc. Bono's speeches in the movie also didn't help the media portrait of megalomaniacs and big egos.

I think that both suffer from bad deliverance/execution of ideas.

 

[bono_man2002]

I think image and moreso being underrehearsed on the tour is what hurt Pop. (I don't think the famous "extra month" would have made any difference on the songs) Lyrics are actually its saving grace.

I agree.

I think it would have taken away from Pop's 'Uniqueness', if anything the songs may have ended up overproduced , taken out, swapped around ect ect..

Although, an exta month to prepare for the tour (which Knowing U2, they may not have used to full advantage ), I think would have helped.

 

[DreamOutLoud13]

Pop is lyrically weak? Since when?

 

[Liesje]

As albums, I'd take Pop over R&H. The concept of Pop, from the first song to the last, is more complete. It's a more cohesive album. R&H is more like a compilation of new songs or live versions of old songs/covers.

 

[Bonochick]

I don't consider either of them to be flops.

 

[jacobus]

POP is great and full of classy lyrics and RATTLE AND HUM imo isn't a flop at all.

 

[bridgit]

I don't consider either of them to be flops.

 

[MumblingBono]

Neither was a "flop" in America.

R & H produced more top 40 singles than any U2 record save JT and AB. It's studio tracks still sound fresh today. The movie was fairly lame, and the record has been dragged down in the minds of many as a result.

I consider people who bash R & H to be "U2 snobs" who think every song should be dark and difficult like Acrobat or Exit.

Pop, as other have said, was mishandled from day 1. Kmart stunt, opening in Vegas, poor choices for singles. Still it was not a flop - Discoteque was a hit, and Gone and Mofo are remembered as among the best the band has produced.

 

[vaz02]

I dont consider POP or Rattle and hum a flop , i enjoy them 2 albums a lot.

POP might of been hyped way too much though.

 

[Pero]

Pop wasn't rehearsed. They could have made postponement but it was too expensive. Pop(i mean the whole concept with the tour) was and is great to someone who gave a shot. But it's the perfect example why noone isn't perfect,not even them.

R&H is Bono taking over with his megalomaniacy but remeber it still gave us The fly which imo best u2 ever.

 

[ozeeko]

POP is U2's greatest lyrical album in my opinion. It delves more deeply into Bono's psyche than any other album. Such as Mofo's middle 8 with the "Mother..am i still your son" section. Or even "Please" which bitterly depicts the IRA situation in Ireland better than any other song they've released (except for maybe Peace On Earth, but Please is definitely the better song) It has Bono at his most miserable and hopeless with "Wake Up Dead Man"..his most seductive with "If You Wear..." most cynical with "Miami" and "Playboy Mansion" and even his best stab at the rock star lifestyle with "Gone". How is "Do You Feel Loved" a been there done that song? It tells a great story of one night stands and the consequences and even throws a plot twist with the woman involved getting knocked up (pushing and shoving in the belly of a woman) and the two lovers having to stay together for the child (man and a woman stick together). Honestly there are no songs on that album that obviously point to bad lyrics. Nothing stands out as terrible or lacking. Even "Discoteque" has a deeper meaning. The part about chewing bubblegum knowing what it is but stilling wanting some isn't supposed to be taken literally. It's about indulging yourself in something that's all surface and no substance and knowing it but you do it anyway cuz it's a cheap thrill. POP has even been called Bono's best "word" album. And this was said by Bono himself.

 

[BVS]

POP is U2's greatest lyrical album in my opinion. It delves more deeply into Bono's psyche than any other album. Such as Mofo's middle 8 with the "Mother..am i still your son" section. Or even "Please" which bitterly depicts the IRA situation in Ireland better than any other song they've released (except for maybe Peace On Earth, but Please is definitely the better song) It has Bono at his most miserable and hopeless with "Wake Up Dead Man"..his most seductive with "If You Wear..." most cynical with "Miami" and "Playboy Mansion" and even his best stab at the rock star lifestyle with "Gone". How is "Do You Feel Loved" a been there done that song? It tells a great story of one night stands and the consequences and even throws a plot twist with the woman involved getting knocked up (pushing and shoving in the belly of a woman) and the two lovers having to stay together for the child (man and a woman stick together). Honestly there are no songs on that album that obviously point to bad lyrics. Nothing stands out as terrible or lacking. Even "Discoteque" has a deeper meaning. The part about chewing bubblegum knowing what it is but stilling wanting some isn't supposed to be taken literally. It's about indulging yourself in something that's all surface and no substance and knowing it but you do it anyway cuz it's a cheap thrill. POP has even been called Bono's best "word" album. And this was said by Bono himself.

With the exception of Miami, I agree 100% with your post.

 

[jacobus]

hey ozeeko, great posting
i agree 100% and unlike BonoVoxSuperstar i think that MIAMI is real great tune with ironical/cynical lyrics. imo the MIAMI lyrics are a modern expressionistic poetry and last but not least MIAMI still rocks

 

[Mogi]

Ozeeko, fantastic post!!! I might sound crazy for this, but I think in a way Pop was the "What´s Going On" of our generation. Both have a similar theme with the loss of faith and god in society at

 

[Mogi]

(continue) My computer crashed. Sorry about the cryptic message. What I was saying is that both had a similar theme at the loss of faith and god in society at that moment, but both had a glimmer of hope. I think Pop was a logical ending for what started with AB/Zoo TV and the early 90´s take on the new media. Pop was the result of the buying into what the media and corporations were selling. The result was massive consumerism, indulgence and mental and spiritual fatigue from overexposure.
I think Bono was quite clever in the way he portrayed this on Pop.

 

[Total U2 Nut]

I don't consider either of them to be flops.

I like both albums, and wouldn't consider either of them as "flops". Actually, Pop is my favourite U2 album...