Achtung over The Joshua Tree?

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Its hard to say which is better really.

Joshua Tree was considered to be there Masterpeice before Achtung Baby because it came out in a time where a lot of music out was well basically crap! Its a solid album with great highs and lows song wise on it so Joshua Tree makes a good medium. I mean I dont know if without the Joshua Tree I would have been exposed to anything else besides War which was a good album but my dad had a tendency to put sunday bloody sunday on repeat! :eyebrow:

Anyway but as Joshua Tree is what I believe to be there Commecial Masterpeice Achtung Baby is by far there creative. Its a transition album that really did change there sound......which gave little hints on songs like God Part II off of Rattle And Hum.
Achtung is another solid album but far more experimental where Joshua Tree was much more polished as they knew this would be the major album and it shows from the reviews and the general reaction the album has gotten.

personally in the top 100 albums of all time Id put both Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby in the top 30 but as to which is better......
 
MacPhistoPT said:
City of Blinding Lights is a great song but it's not original. It repeats the epic formula of some other great songs.
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i've never heard of a formula for creating epic U2 songs. they had been sitting of CoBL since 1997, so a lot of work must have gone into the song before it was released. i think it's unfair to minimize the greatness of CoBL by saying that it was done by a formula.
 
*brown strolls in, leaving gaping mouths in his wake to announce his two cents*

The Joshua Tree was probably the first record I ever loved. As Axver says it's EPIC. I don't think Achtung Baby can say the same. Yes, every track is amazing, it's a 10/10 record and a masterpiece but there is something about the Joshua Tree's overall sound and flow that just makes it a better record.

The Joshua Tree sounds like a concept album in the way that one of the band could have just said "I'd like the album to have a sort of running theme of 'EPIC-NESS'...!" From start to finish it it just one swash of gorgeous guitars, rythm and atmospherics whereas Achtung Baby nearly gets there but a lot of the tracks are rather 'anti-epic' if you get what I mean and stick to a 'darker', more enclosed overall sound. Even The Joshua Tree's B-sides have that amazing sound, makes a good seperate album or a double album mixed with the original!

None of this means Achtung Baby is a worse record. I hold them both aloft as works of art that no-one can even TRY to emulate, but Joshua Tree wins JUST barely...

However, 'props' to AB on this note...Where Joshua Tree has the first 'Holy Trinity' in 'Streets/Still Haven't Found/With or Without You', Achtung Baby has the second in 'Ultraviolet/Acrobat/Love is Blindness'...which would actually make a pretty good short CD...

I just think The Joshua Tree is overall a better record but for some reason Achtung Baby seems to be ignored when you get 'Top 100s' or ask someone to name a U2 record they like...
 
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gareth brown said:
*brown strolls in, leaving gaping mouths in his wake to announce his two cents*

The Joshua Tree was probably the first record I ever loved. As Axver says it's EPIC. I don't think Achtung Baby can say the same. Yes, every track is amazing, it's a 10/10 record and a masterpiece but there is something about the Joshua Tree's overall sound and flow that just makes it a better record.

The Joshua Tree sounds like a concept album in the way that one of the band could have just said "I'd like the album to have a sort of running theme of 'EPIC-NESS'...!" From start to finish it it just one swash of gorgeous guitars, rythm and atmospherics whereas Achtung Baby nearly gets there but a lot of the tracks are rather 'anti-epic' if you get what I mean and stick to a 'darker', more enclosed overall sound. Even The Joshua Tree's B-sides have that amazing sound, makes a good seperate album or a double album mixed with the original!

None of this means Achtung Baby is a worse record. I hold them both aloft as works of art that no-one can even TRY to emulate, but Joshua Tree wins JUST barely...

However, 'props' to AB on this note...Where Joshua Tree has the first 'Holy Trinity' in 'Streets/Still Haven't Found/With or Without You', Achtung Baby has the second in 'Ultraviolet/Acrobat/Love is Blindness'...which would actually make a pretty good short CD...

I just think The Joshua Tree is overall a better record but for some reason Achtung Baby seems to be ignored when you get 'Top 100s' or ask someone to name a U2 record they like...
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Even though I slightly prefer AB, that was a great reason to prefer JT, you almost convinced me. "EPIC-NESS" :yes:
 
discothequeLP said:




i've never heard of a formula for creating epic U2 songs. they had been sitting of CoBL since 1997, so a lot of work must have gone into the song before it was released. i think it's unfair to minimize the greatness of CoBL by saying that it was done by a formula.
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See i do not get why people go on about COBL being unoriginal, trying to make another streets blah blah blah.....Streets was basically a sound started with Bad, and other songs on The Unforgettable Fire, Streets was the progression from that and COBL is a progression from Streets, similar sound used but very different songs....

Saying that i kinda agree with Brown...but to say JT is better than AB because it is epic? LOTR is an epic set of films and i love them but does that make them any better than an intimate dark drama? The Machinist or some such other film? They come from entirely two different spectrums of music...they are equal masterpieces i think in their respective spheres of theme/content/sound....

Achtung is my personal preference but i do not really see it as better than the Joshua Tree it is just something i like more...
 
i think that JT is a culmination of everything they've done prior...in a way, achieving "perfection" and refinement of their work. no doubt JT is classic and timeless.

but LJT makes a good point...just cuz JT is epic doesn't necessarily make it a "better" album...just makes it an epic album. it's a better album if you like that epic sound, i guess.

i can't claim that AB is "better" than JT but personally i do think it is better, mostly cuz i just like it better (probably not a strong argument but whatevs). AB speaks more personally to me than JT. I love the fact that AB's sound is such a dramatic change from their previous sound. i love how it sounds so experimental and dark. JT is classic, but AB has a twist and that's what I admire personally.

so really, both albums are excellent but different and i think it comes down to a matter of preference.
 
Save your breath, man. This forum's infested with those 90's U2 lovers. I don't think we'll ever be able to get through to some of them. But at least we know the truth. :wink:

Seriously though. The Joshua Tree is possibly the greatest one-album achievement of any band, ever. Like it's already been said, it trancends traditional music. It's more than just music and lyrics. It gives you a feeling like nothing else can.

Not that Achtung's bad. It's probably their best record if you just look at the music itself. But it was nowhere as revolutionary as the Joshua Tree. The Joshua Tree was U2 making amazing music with their own, original sound, and AB was U2 making amazing music with sounds that were already popular at the time. Simple as that. Just because AB had 48395805934805938495 effects running through it at one time, does not make it more revolutionary. Some people seem to forget that, though. :wink:
 
I agree with Hendrix...AB was just a revolutionary step for U2, not in music, thing is though i believe U2 took their own sound and merged it with the music sound which was prevalent at the time..(my technical music knowledge is not great so please no murdering if i get this wrong)...Ultraviolet Light to me is not so far removed from the sound of JT it just has a lot of extra effects/sounds whatever mixed with it, which has given it a whole new mood and atmosphere...Its the combiantion of U2's own sound and the new sounds around it that maintain Achtung's originality for me....
 
One is much better then Streets. Streets is a U2 classic, but I think One is the best record of all time, not because of the lyrics, but because of how it sounds.

When played live, Streets is much better then One.
 
shaun vox said:
JT is the masterpiece of the 80s AB is the masterpiece of the 90s and hopefully their next album will be the masterpiece of 2000!!
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Well said both of those albums are so different from each other, the mood and the sound are very contrast. JT is the album ot the 80's and AB is the album of the 90's....THE BOTH ROCK!!!:rockon:
 
Axver said:
Joshua Tree is on a higher plane than just music. It is epic. You feel it from Streets right through to the final mournful notes of Mothers.

Achtung does not even come close to being epic.
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Word. JT feels like a great novel, Achtung Baby like a book of short stories.

Achtung Baby has never been able to give me the imagery that JT has given. Maybe it's that I am very influenced by the first three songs, thus Streets>ISHFWILF>WOWY can never compare to anything on Achtung Baby. Zoo Station>Even Better>One? The first two are just mediocre to me, kind of uninteresting and meandering, and don't flow well into One, in my opinion. It finishes up strong, but nothing compared to the pain of Exit and the healing of MOTD.
 
xtihn said:
i think that JT is a culmination of everything they've done prior...in a way, achieving "perfection" and refinement of their work. no doubt JT is classic and timeless.

but LJT makes a good point...just cuz JT is epic doesn't necessarily make it a "better" album...just makes it an epic album. it's a better album if you like that epic sound, i guess.

i can't claim that AB is "better" than JT but personally i do think it is better, mostly cuz i just like it better (probably not a strong argument but whatevs). AB speaks more personally to me than JT. I love the fact that AB's sound is such a dramatic change from their previous sound. i love how it sounds so experimental and dark. JT is classic, but AB has a twist and that's what I admire personally.

so really, both albums are excellent but different and i think it comes down to a matter of preference.
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I completely agree with everything you've said! :up:
 
I feel like as revolutionary as it was AB is alittle reserved for U2. Jt was 4 men putting everything that had, everything they were, and everything they had ever felt down on the table. I feel despite all of the experimentation, AB is held back, drifitng almost. Still in my mind both albums are the definition of greatness.

Of course like others have said, they are different albums. Why compare, AB will be there when I need it and so will JT.
 
AB is definitely more innovative - at least more innovative for a band like U2 to make. JT was somewhat different than what they had done before because it was the first time they played around with rootsy, American music, but in other respects it was more of an outgrowth and perfection of what they had been doing, particularly with UF. Achtung Baby was completely different than anything they had ever done before.

And this is coming from someone whose favorite album of all time is JT. :wink:
 
how can you say that One is overated. sure you have heard it more times than your own name, but it is still a very great song and how dare anyone call it otherwise. if you ask me streets is a very overated song. never did understand why everyone kisses its arse so much. good song but i guess i never personaly thought it that great. if you are gonna argue that JT is the best i don't know why you would use streets. there are much better songs on that album. and also i dont see how you can think that an album inspired by popular american music of the past is more innovative than something like achtung. but whatever...

that said, i love both, but i will always love achtung baby more.
 
xtihn said:
I don't personally see how people can say that The Joshua Tree is better than Achtung Baby.

I mean, yea, every song on JT is listenable to, but its not revolutionary like Achtung. I mean, look at One/UTEOTW/Fly. They are absolutley incredible songs, and technically some of the best songs ever written IMO. Yea, you may be sick of them to some extent, but you gotta admit that that they are absolutley incredible beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Also on AB you have Even Better Than The Real Thing/Ultraviolet which are 2 incredible rock songs. Then you have Acrobat, So Cruel, and Wild Horses which are superb songs in their own right.

Now, when you look at JT, and don't get me wrong, its a wicked album, but compared to the brilliance of AB IMO i don't think it can be compared. You have Streets, and I Still Haven't Found... which are very well written songs, and then a lot of good songs to go with.

You can listen to the whole album, and thoroughly enjoy it with songs like WOWY, Running to Stand Still, Bullet and In God's Country.. but they just arn't innovative like the songs you get from earlier.

Anyways, like I said, this is all In My Opinion so comment, and tell me what you think, and where I went wrong or where I went right.

Thanks

:wink: Cooper2000 expressed EXACTLY how i feel...except switch the albums.
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NICE.

I agree :wink:

How best to explain this? To me, Joshua Tree is the sort of album that elevates you to a higher plain. It takes you somewhere else. Achtung Baby keeps you grounded - and forces you into your own mind. JT is epic. AB is real. Both are brilliant. Streets, WOWY, Running, Exit...some of the best U2 has ever made. One, The Fly, Acrobat, Love is Blindness...some of the best U2 has ever made. Both have some of the best "flow" of any U2 album. I don't know why people are knocking AB's flow or whatever. I couldn't imagine the tracklisting any other way, same goes for JT. Both sort of tell a story as they go along, have themes that go throughout the album. But for me, the best will always be Achtung Baby. Of course, this is coming from someone who's favourite album is Pop :wink:

Achtung Baby is sonically superior to Joshua Tree.
 
I love the Joshua Tree, but I cannot listen to it too often. Achtung Baby is an album that I can listen to over and over without getting bored. It's more layered, it's deeper, and it's darker. I could listen to it every day and find something new each time.

Also, AB just has more, better songs. RHMT, In God's Country, Trip Thru Your Wires, and Mothers of the Disappeared are all good songs (especially the first 2) but they don't stick out to me as exceptional. The second side is noticably weaker than the first. AB's second side has, just to name my favorites, The Fly, Mysterious Ways, Acrobat, and Love is Blindness. You just can't beat that. :drool:

In summary, Achtung Baby > Joshua Tree > God.
 
The Joshua Tree is one of the best albums ever made. Achtung Baby is one of U2's best. There is a difference.
 
the tourist said:
The Joshua Tree is one of the best albums ever made. Achtung Baby is one of U2's best. There is a difference.
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:up: As it has been talked about in previous posts, JT feels to me to be almost like one whole song, not necessarily a story, but more of a concept or feeling. I can also recognize that AB follows a consisten and well executed theme as well. However, JT has "it," whatever that is as an album, that elevates in slightly above AB. Individually AB has better songs, but as an album there is nothing better than JT.
 
Streets >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One

Sorry, but I couldn't just allow all of this "Streets is the overrated one!" garbage to continue. :wink:

One is good, no doubt. But it's no Streets.

But, then again, what is? :drool:
 
People who like Streets - like The Joshua Tree and the 80's.

People who like One - like Achtung Baby and the 90's.

We are never going to change people's minds because they are so stubborn.

I just say we leave it at this -
JT and AB are two completey different records, they are both on the same 10/10 level, and you can't say one's better because they sound completey different (Even Horses is such a JT song :wink )

Where The Streets Have No Name >>>>>>>>>>> Zoo Station
I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For > Even Better Than The Real Thing
With or Without You > One (but the world's tiniest margin ever)
Bullet the Blue Sky < Until the End of the World
Running to Stand Still > Who's Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses
Red Hill Mining Town > So Cruel
In God's Country < The Fly
Trip Through Your Wires < Mysterious Ways
One Tree Hill > Tryin' To Throw Your Arms Around The World
Exit < Ultra Violet (Light My Way)
Mothers of the Disappeared < Acrobat

I'm not including LIB, only because there isn't a 12th song on TJT.

The Joshua Tree - 6
Achtung Baby - 5
 
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