Achtung Baby vs. Ok Computer

[AtomicBono]

Are you kidding? Radiohead is respected wayyy more than U2 because they stayed true to their own creative instincts and are making the kind of music they want to make instead of bowing to the majority of the music buying public in America, that doesn't know shit anyway.. judging by the total crap on the charts like 50 Cent and what not! I'll stop right there because I don't want to create an argument and I know you won't agree with me anyway.

See, I disagree with you. I don't think U2 has ever not made the kind of music they want to make. Just because it's not what you want, doesn't mean it wasn't what they wanted.

I do think that after Pop's "failure" (failure my ass), U2 made a conscious decision to regain the title of biggest band in the world, and thus created songs that would make good singles. But I think they were making the music they wanted to make the whole time, because if they weren't, it would show. Listen to ATYCLB. That album has soul. HTDAAB has its moments, too. Songs like Beautiful Day and Original of the Species are filled with so much joy and soul I can't dismiss them as "oh, U2 was just trying to please the masses." And you know what, in the 00's I'd say U2's only hit singles were BD and Vertigo, and maybe Elevation. The rest did fairly well, but they weren't really hit singles, in America anyway. Of course, I could be wrong, I'm sort of just judging this on songs the average high schooler knows. But the point is if you listen to U2's last two albums and listen to what's on mainstream radio now (again, we're talking America here, since that's what you brought up), the only thing that's really similar is Coldplay. They're definitely more actual pop music than U2 has been before, but they're still not really like what's popular now. Some may say that's just U2 not realizing what's hip, and that could be true. But I'd say that they stayed true to themselves and the music they wanted to make. The 90's was an incredible journey, but it had to end sometime. As far as I'm concerned Pop has 12 of U2's best songs, but they may not see it that way, and it was time for a change of pace. U2 didn't want to lose the central elements that made them famous in the first place. After a decade of mad experimentation, it was time for a break. And now that break is coming to an end. Mark my words: U2 will experiment again, when they're ready. And I think they are. They're itching, now. Even Larry said they want to start experimenting again. It will happen, and when it happens U2 will remain as true to themselves as they ever have.

As for Radiohead, I respect them for doing what they want to do as well. But they've never had the ambition to be the biggest band in the world. U2 wants it, they don't. Is it wrong to want it?

 

[U2Man]

Zoot., AtomicBono just beat the crap out of you

 

[LemonAid]

See, I disagree with you. I don't think U2 has ever not made the kind of music they want to make. Just because it's not what you want, doesn't mean it wasn't what they wanted.

I do think that after Pop's "failure" (failure my ass), U2 made a conscious decision to regain the title of biggest band in the world, and thus created songs that would make good singles. But I think they were making the music they wanted to make the whole time, because if they weren't, it would show. Listen to ATYCLB. That album has soul. HTDAAB has its moments, too. Songs like Beautiful Day and Original of the Species are filled with so much joy and soul I can't dismiss them as "oh, U2 was just trying to please the masses." And you know what, in the 00's I'd say U2's only hit singles were BD and Vertigo, and maybe Elevation. The rest did fairly well, but they weren't really hit singles, in America anyway. Of course, I could be wrong, I'm sort of just judging this on songs the average high schooler knows. But the point is if you listen to U2's last two albums and listen to what's on mainstream radio now (again, we're talking America here, since that's what you brought up), the only thing that's really similar is Coldplay. They're definitely more actual pop music than U2 has been before, but they're still not really like what's popular now. Some may say that's just U2 not realizing what's hip, and that could be true. But I'd say that they stayed true to themselves and the music they wanted to make. The 90's was an incredible journey, but it had to end sometime. As far as I'm concerned Pop has 12 of U2's best songs, but they may not see it that way, and it was time for a change of pace. U2 didn't want to lose the central elements that made them famous in the first place. After a decade of mad experimentation, it was time for a break. And now that break is coming to an end. Mark my words: U2 will experiment again, when they're ready. And I think they are. They're itching, now. Even Larry said they want to start experimenting again. It will happen, and when it happens U2 will remain as true to themselves as they ever have.

As for Radiohead, I respect them for doing what they want to do as well. But they've never had the ambition to be the biggest band in the world. U2 wants it, they don't. Is it wrong to want it?

great post!

...at first I thought we were in for another All That You Cant/Atomic Bomb 'love in'......but some really good points made.

...and God I hope you're right about the future and experimentation.....I think you are, but god I just hope so.....

..we tend to associate u2 experimenting with the words 'distort' and 'electronica'......but Im sure they'll want to go somewhere different again on top of this, so it really could be interesting I think....

...dont want to turn this into coldplay-bashing, so please, noone take the non-existent bait, but I read a link yesterday with Chris saying how they view their albums as 'trilogies' and they want to move on now and start experimenting....with.....'electronica'........jesus, what a snore. someone tell these people that that is NOT 'experimenting' anymore.....it has become a cliché for experimenting, on the back of Bowie, U2 and Radiohead......they were experiments at 'that' times, but Electronica has been abused to death over the last decade....we're in a different musical environment now, I just wich all these people would grow some more balls...

..sorry.

 

[Zoots]

Zoot., AtomicBono just beat the crap out of you

Well... the thing is it's not just the change in musical direction that pissed me and other fans off...

1. Making a mess out of the 90s Best Of, by not only remixing and butchering perfectly good songs but also by including 2 songs from the 00s just so it would sell better!

2. Apologizing for Pop (unfinished blah blah), Popmart etc. They seem to practically dis-own that gem of an album!

3. The lyrics have gone down recently but I admit that's only my opinion!

4. Is it just me or does Bono overdo everything!!! Everything is super hyped up! Over produced! Over worked! Extreme stage posturing even more so than in the past! It's so obvious he's trying hard to be the biggest in the world! Like Lennon?... or maybe Jesus??? You say there's nothing wrong in that? Ok, that's fine.

But when somebody's trying too hard to project an image, it's just not that attractive IMO.


Just thinking out aloud here, don't kill me.

 

[bollox]

so, following the u2 blueprint, if the 00s are radiohead's "experimental" decade, will the 10s herald their return to "safe" music?

 

[MrBrau1]

so, following the u2 blueprint, if the 00s are radiohead's "experimental" decade, will the 10s herald their return to "safe" music?

You mean songs?

We can only hope.

 

[xaviMF22]

so, following the u2 blueprint, if the 00s are radiohead's "experimental" decade, will the 10s herald their return to "safe" music?

lets hope radiohead don't follow U2.

 

[LemonAid]

Well... the thing is it's not just the change in musical direction that pissed me and other fans off...

1. Making a mess out of the 90s Best Of, by not only remixing and butchering perfectly good songs but also by including 2 songs from the 00s just so it would sell better!

2. Apologizing for Pop (unfinished blah blah), Popmart etc. They seem to practically dis-own that gem of an album!

3. The lyrics have gone down recently but I admit that's only my opinion!

4. Is it just me or does Bono overdo everything!!! Everything is super hyped up! Over produced! Over worked! Extreme stage posturing even more so than in the past! It's so obvious he's trying hard to be the biggest in the world! Like Lennon?... or maybe Jesus??? You say there's nothing wrong in that? Ok, that's fine.

But when somebody's trying too hard to project an image, it's just not that attractive IMO.


Just thinking out aloud here, don't kill me.

Totally agree with every one of your points.

Especially Pop. God....if only THEY would stop apologising for it, it would begin to get the credit it deserves.......

...notice that in this months Q Magazine with the 100 greatest albums of all time poll, Pop is listed as 1 of 10 'almost' classic albums....

...its a start!

 

[MrBrau1]

lets hope radiohead don't follow U2.

My sentiment is that they do. I hope they rediscover the power of song, and stop recording the sound of melting legos. They seem to do everything they can to actually avoid writing and recording a direct song.

Leave the sampler, drum machine, and vintage computer effects off the next record. It's stale. They've done it. Move on. Find a new inspiration.

 

[xaviMF22]

My sentiment is that they do. I hope they rediscover the power of song, and stop recording the sound of melting legos. They seem to do everything they can to actually avoid writing and recording a direct song.

Leave the sampler, drum machine, and vintage computer effects off the next record. It's stale. They've done it. Move on. Find a new inspiration.

In a way I agree with you, I hope they write some more "actual songs" but I also hope that they don't quit experimenting.

 

[MrBrau1]

Here's an interesting interview bit from after Amnesiac was released:

Yago: It seems like Radiohead is the only major label band that's allowed to take these huge artistic and stylistic risks. Why is that?

O'Brien: It's the economics of the fact that OK Computer sold 4.5 million records [worldwide] — it gives us some leeway. That's the bottom line. They wouldn't be giving us this amount of freedom if OK Computer sold 200,000 copies. No way.

 

[angelordevil]

My sentiment is that they do. I hope they rediscover the power of song, and stop recording the sound of melting legos.

Melting legos...

My brain is deeply attracted to music that veers from the traditional verse-chorus-verse model. I love the tempo changes, the non-structured kinds of music. That's what I really enjoy about Kid A, parts of Ok Computer...and probably most of U2, come to think of it.

"Songs" are great, if they're original, but I love finding magic in the madness.

 

[JOFO]

Here's an interesting interview bit from after Amnesiac was released:

Yago: It seems like Radiohead is the only major label band that's allowed to take these huge artistic and stylistic risks. Why is that?

O'Brien: It's the economics of the fact that OK Computer sold 4.5 million records [worldwide] — it gives us some leeway. That's the bottom line. They wouldn't be giving us this amount of freedom if OK Computer sold 200,000 copies. No way.

now THAT is the truth.

 

[AtomicBono]

Ahh Zoot, you know I love you

1. Making a mess out of the 90s Best Of, by not only remixing and butchering perfectly good songs but also by including 2 songs from the 00s just so it would sell better!

The 90's Best Of was an absolute mess, I agree. I wish they hadn't included anything from ATYCLB at all. As for ES and HTBA, fuck that shit, if it belongs on any best of album, which I doubt they do, it would be 2000-2010, with ATYCLB. And the remixes were pointless. But hey, whatever makes U2 happy.

2. Apologizing for Pop (unfinished blah blah), Popmart etc. They seem to practically dis-own that gem of an album!

I think everyone knows how I feel about Pop at this point It's unfortunate that the only Pop song on Vertigo tour (which was also the BEST VERSION EVER) got dropped... maybe someday, years from now, U2 will finally realize that Pop was one of their greatest efforts. It just doesn't help that any article you read about U2's history or whatever, Pop is always mentioned as a "failure" or "misstep," and not from U2 themselves, though U2 sure like to throw around the word "unfinished" a lot. For an unfinished album, songs like Mofo and Wake Up Dead Man sure have a lot of shit going on.

3. The lyrics have gone down recently but I admit that's only my opinion!

Eh, I sort of agree. I would say that comparing the lyrics of everything from the 00's to everything from the 90's, the 90's is better. Probably the 80's is better too. Bono's style has just changed a bit, I guess. But there's some absolutely brilliant stuff - Mercy, for example. I love the crazy lyrics to Fast Cars, the message of the song is actually very ZOOTV-media-overload. City of Blinding Lights actually has some fantastic lines ("Time won't leave me as I am, but time won't take the boy out of this man"). And of course ATYCLB has some good stuff, like BD and Kite (I think I'm the only person in the world that actually likes the last verse of Kite). I guess Bono's lyrics are sort of hit and miss these days, but really, they always have been, perhaps just now a little more than usual. But, again, I think they'll get better. I'm hoping Bono will maybe try to focus more on the music this time. But he's accomplished a lot as a humanitarian so I can't really blame him, in the end helping Africa is far more important than good lyrics, though I want good lyrics.

4. Is it just me or does Bono overdo everything!!! Everything is super hyped up! Over produced! Over worked! Extreme stage posturing even more so than in the past! It's so obvious he's trying hard to be the biggest in the world! Like Lennon?... or maybe Jesus??? You say there's nothing wrong in that? Ok, that's fine.

But when somebody's trying too hard to project an image, it's just not that attractive IMO.

Uhh, I dunno quite what to say to that. ZooTV was the epitome of exagerration. Bono's always had quite the stage presence and it doesn't seem any more extreme (WOOOOOO XTREME MOUNTAIN DEW XBOX SK8RZ!!!!11) now than before, in fact I think it's slightly more mellowed, but not much. Over hyped - well, they always hype their latest album, don't they? Don't all bands? Was HTDAAB really much more hyped than Pop or AB? And of course, we live in a different world now, with different technology, so now with the internet and all it's kind of impossible for an album to "slip through the radar" like Zooropa did, so might as well hype it eh? Over produced - I agree that the last two albums were overproduced, especially HTDAAB. But that's not entirely Bono's fault. Bono wasn't the producer. Yeah he made the final decisions, but so did Larry, Adam, and Edge. You can't put all the blame on Bono.

Just thinking out aloud here, don't kill me.

I won't kill you, just correct you

 

[corianderstem]

I hope they rediscover the power of song, and stop recording the sound of melting legos.

Sorry, nothing to add. I just wanted to see that again.

Hee!

 

[angelordevil]

Sorry, nothing to add. I just wanted to see that again.

Hee!

Yes, that was fucking brilliant!!

 

[Zoots]

Ambition makes you look pretty ugly.

 

[namkcuR]

Ambition makes you look pretty ugly.

Who is that directed at? I don't exactly get what you're saying there...

 

[Zoots]

I was merely quoting a lyric.




















No, really!....

 

[U2DMfan]

Hail to the Theif has plenty of 'songs' on it.

They aren't straight up vanilla pop rock, but they are pretty direct, verse chorus, bridge and so on. Guitars, basses, drums and pianos. They tried to take that formula, the basic direct rock/pop stuff and mix it up, make a longer verse, put the choruses at the back of the song, tempo changes, U2 need to start thinking like that again, I think.

Contemporary rock/pop can be a complete bore even when it's great. Radiohead aren't doing anything revolutionary, they are trying to take Beatles rock and make it more interesting. That's all they are doing. U2 are doing Beatles rock and trying to make it better. That's the difference to me.

back to HTTT, besides Myxamotosis and Backdrifts, most of them are straight up songs, they are just more sonically interesting than basic shit that has been done 90 million times. I get a little bored by direct songs that have nothing sonically interesting to say. Otherwise it's complete retread, even if they can be good or great, it's retread of a sort. They are just trying to do something a little different than what they've heard over and over again.

Bravo, to them for trying.

 

[angelordevil]

I was merely quoting a lyric.




















No, really!....

You better be, or I WILL EAT YOU ALIVE

 

[xaviMF22]

Hail to the Theif has plenty of 'songs' on it.

They aren't straight up vanilla pop rock, but they are pretty direct, verse chorus, bridge and so on. Guitars, basses, drums and pianos. They tried to take that formula, the basic direct rock/pop stuff and mix it up, make a longer verse, put the choruses at the back of the song, tempo changes, U2 need to start thinking like that again, I think.

Contemporary rock/pop can be a complete bore even when it's great. Radiohead aren't doing anything revolutionary, they are trying to take Beatles rock and make it more interesting. That's all they are doing. U2 are doing Beatles rock and trying to make it better. That's the difference to me.

back to HTTT, besides Myxamotosis and Backdrifts, most of them are straight up songs, they are just more sonically interesting than basic shit that has been done 90 million times. I get a little bored by direct songs that have nothing sonically interesting to say. Otherwise it's complete retread, even if they can be good or great, it's retread of a sort. They are just trying to do something a little different than what they've heard over and over again.

Bravo, to them for trying.

 

[Zoots]

Hail to the Theif has plenty of 'songs' on it.

They aren't straight up vanilla pop rock, but they are pretty direct, verse chorus, bridge and so on. Guitars, basses, drums and pianos. They tried to take that formula, the basic direct rock/pop stuff and mix it up, make a longer verse, put the choruses at the back of the song, tempo changes, U2 need to start thinking like that again, I think.


They are just trying to do something a little different than what they've heard over and over again.

Bravo, to them for trying.

Yeah, exactly!!! I don't get Brau's point about songs because if not songs, what are they, then? At least RH is making it more interesting sonically with drum loops, backwards recordings and timing changes. What's wrong in incorporating these techniques into perfectly good 'songs'?

 

[Zoots]

You better be, or I WILL EAT YOU ALIVE

There'll be no more lies...

 

[namkcuR]

Hail to the Theif has plenty of 'songs' on it.

They aren't straight up vanilla pop rock, but they are pretty direct, verse chorus, bridge and so on. Guitars, basses, drums and pianos. They tried to take that formula, the basic direct rock/pop stuff and mix it up, make a longer verse, put the choruses at the back of the song, tempo changes, U2 need to start thinking like that again, I think.

Contemporary rock/pop can be a complete bore even when it's great. Radiohead aren't doing anything revolutionary, they are trying to take Beatles rock and make it more interesting. That's all they are doing. U2 are doing Beatles rock and trying to make it better. That's the difference to me.

back to HTTT, besides Myxamotosis and Backdrifts, most of them are straight up songs, they are just more sonically interesting than basic shit that has been done 90 million times. I get a little bored by direct songs that have nothing sonically interesting to say. Otherwise it's complete retread, even if they can be good or great, it's retread of a sort. They are just trying to do something a little different than what they've heard over and over again.

Bravo, to them for trying.

Yes!

 

[U2DMfan]

Yeah, exactly!!! I don't get Brau's point about songs because if not songs, what are they, then? At least RH is making it more interesting sonically with drum loops, backwards recordings and timing changes. What's wrong in incorporating these techniques into perfectly good 'songs'?

I think Brau was probably just put off by Kid A/Amnesiac

I really think HTTT owes more to The Bends than anything.

 

[ultraviolet7]

Zoot., AtomicBono just beat the crap out of you

Naaaahh

Atomic Bono has made some good points indeed even if I don't agree one bit on Beautiful Day! LOL
U2 want to be the biggest band in the world so they are out in the mainstream. Whilst there might have been certain label pressure in trying to persuade them to make more commercial material I agree that the change of direction was actually what the band wanted. They probably thought that continuing in the Pop direction might have ended up into making them a niche band as opposed to a widely popular one. Add to that the fact that particular members (Larry basically) were not that comfortable with the deviation from the pop/rock band standard and everything fits smoothly in the picture. The problem with us fans (esp those fond of the 90s as myself) is that we believe U2 is capable of coming up with more interesting material than what they are doing now but that material, which doesn't necessarily involve electronica, but perhaps the sort of songwriting that spawned songs like Stay, The Fly or Gone and that was still alive in The Ground Beneath Her Feet, sadly is incongruent with the desire to stay at the top of people's preferences nowadays. However, artists have the right to put out what they feel they should and us public the prerogative of saying yea or nay. As far as sales and current tour go general public seems to be saying yea...

Zootlesque makes excellent points too. I agree 100% with:

Originally posted by Zootlesque
Well... the thing is it's not just the change in musical direction that pissed me and other fans off...

1. Making a mess out of the 90s Best Of, by not only remixing and butchering perfectly good songs but also by including 2 songs from the 00s just so it would sell better!

2. Apologizing for Pop (unfinished blah blah), Popmart etc. They seem to practically dis-own that gem of an album!

1. Best of 90s is an absolute mess. That decade (IMO U2's most brilliant) didn't deserve such a crappy tribute.

2. I won't ever believe that a band like U2 released an "unfinished" album or something ever slightly different from what they had envisioned for Pop in 1997. Sorry Bono but I don't buy that one. What may have happened is that in hindsight (1999/2000 perhaps?) they may have felt, in view of sales figures or the plans they had for the band, that it had been a mistake to release an album like Pop - but that's a different story altogether.

And partially with

Originally posted by Zootlesque
4. Is it just me or does Bono overdo everything!!! Everything is super hyped up! Over produced! Over worked! Extreme stage posturing even more so than in the past! It's so obvious he's trying hard to be the biggest in the world! Like Lennon?... or maybe Jesus??? You say there's nothing wrong in that? Ok, that's fine.

But when somebody's trying too hard to project an image, it's just not that attractive IMO.

HTDAAB is indeed overproduced IMO. I don't know about Bono...I don't see him more postured than in the past. Perhaps it may seem he's overdoing it since he apparently is being himself now as opposed to playing characters like MacPhisto et al.

 

[MrBrau1]

I think Brau was probably just put off by Kid A/Amnesiac

I really think HTTT owes more to The Bends than anything.

Yes.

 

[ultraviolet7]

That's what I really enjoy about Kid A, parts of Ok Computer...and probably most of U2, come to think of it.

"Songs" are great, if they're original, but I love finding magic in the madness.

I can't recall when U2 didn't make songs...

 

[namkcuR]

HTTT seems to be underrated on this forum. I have to be in the right mood but when I am it is an unequivocally -worthy record.