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Old 06-13-2007, 08:05 PM   #46
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But that's the biggest problem isn't it? I mean, maybe it will be a good movie in the end. I severely doubt it. But I've been surprised before.

But there ARE people who know better who are still going to go pay to see this movie (looks like I am too now, but only to prove how awful it is ). People bitch and moan about the poor state of Hollywood these days, but they're the first ones to go pay 10 bucks to see fucking Die Hard 4. The only way things will change is if people start practicing a little discretion and stop paying these jerk-off studios to see shit cinema. Once these films stop making money, they will stop being made. But not until then. Unfortunately, as you said, this country if fucking retarded.

*Waits for Cameron and Spielberg to show people what great blockbusters are supposed to be and start fixing this epidemic.*
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Old 06-13-2007, 08:14 PM   #47
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Spot on, my friend, spot on.
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Old 06-13-2007, 08:26 PM   #48
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I like my cars exploding and guns-a-blazin and I wouldn't have it any other way with my summer action movies.
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Old 06-13-2007, 08:28 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMacPhisto

I do agree that if it defies every law of physics, it's fucking stupid, that's a given, but Seymour Dumbass who goes to Blockbuster renting dumb shit will be entranced by cars flying into helicopters, that's the majority of people who will see this movie, very dumb fucking people unlike you or me.
I suppose your shit doesn't stink either, right?
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Old 06-13-2007, 08:30 PM   #50
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I wasn't trying to sound like some elitist jerk, although I probably came off as one, but I would like to think he and I are smarter than the average bears.
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Old 06-13-2007, 08:37 PM   #51
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For the record, my shit smells like lilac.

Wanna take a whiff?
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Old 06-13-2007, 08:52 PM   #52
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:01 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lancemc

Has anyone actually watched the trailer for this film?
Uh, yes. It's absurd. It's supposed to be. It's an action movie. How often are terrorists holding an LA building hostage? How often are airports taken control of by terrorists?
How often does a gang of rebels terrorize New York City and ask for just ONE COP to be on their trail?

Lance, if you are looking for a realistic action movie anywhere, you are going to end up disappointed. The whole point of action movies is to be over the top and blow up as much shit as possible. Die Hard isn't the first to feature such ridiculousness. I watched a Corvette fall out of the sky in a James Bond flick and then Pierce Brosnan parachuted into it and drove away. Honestly.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lancemc
But there ARE people who know better who are still going to go pay to see this movie (looks like I am too now, but only to prove how awful it is ).
Elitism

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Originally posted by Lancemc
People bitch and moan about the poor state of Hollywood these days, but they're the first ones to go pay 10 bucks to see fucking Die Hard 4.
lol, pot, kettle, it's all the same. The studios don't care if you are watching it because you think it's awful (and what a dumb reason to go see a movie in the first place . If you're already planning on it sucking then don't even bother and save the money) or if you think it's the second coming of Jesus, it's still making $10.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lancemc
The only way things will change is if people start practicing a little discretion and stop paying these jerk-off studios to see shit cinema.
I honestly don't know what you are complaining about. You find a movie every month that absolutely blows you away. What are you expecting? Two movies that blow you away a month? Ten? There are excellent, challenging movies being released every month. There are excellent comedies and action films too. If you're going to judge them all by the same standard that you do with Lawrence of Arabia, well then...that's just...dumb. I can't think of a better word for it. It's dumb.
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:36 PM   #54
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Pla

Seriously, it's an action movie, they're fun, they are never realistic, they never will be, and if they were, they would hardly be as interesting to watch
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:36 PM   #55
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I've seen a ton of brilliant movies recently because I've been actively seeking them out. So yeah, a lot of the very best films ever made, I've seen for the first time over the past few months, and they've blown me away. There's a long list of films that are supposedly the best of their kind and I'm working my way through them. But that has nothing to do with the current argument.

And, well, I said I wouldn't get into this, but what the hell. Yeah, you obviously don't know what I'm complaining about. I'm not complaining about the unlikliness of the scenarios in Die Hard unfolding. That's why there's a movie about it to begin with, I agree with you there. But the action setpieces in the first Die Hard were still grounded in reality, and well, you know, the physics of the universe. Of course these films bends those laws (gravity, momentum, heat exchange, stuff like that) to make things more interesting, but there wasn't a whole lot in Die Hard that made you say "Give me a fucking break." That's about all the stuff in the Die Hard 4 trailers makes me say. It's all completely impossible. How is that entertaining?

But it's not all about the stupid as shit action scenes I expect this film to have. It's going to be a self-referential cliche-filled mess. And most action movies this decade have been no better. You seem to think I don't understand the appeal of action movies. Have you seen my signature? The man who pretty much set the standard for action films? I love a good action film. "Good" being the optimal word choice here. Just because a movie has a ton of shit blowing up and people getting their faces kicked in doesn't automatically made it a successful action film (aside from financial terms it seems).

Terminator 2 is one of my favorite films. It always has been. It's possibly the best action film ever made (no hyperbole this time). And it's not just because there's a lot of shooting a fire. It's well acted, well photographed, well-conceived, well-written, thought-provoking, and moving as well. Not saying all action films need to maintain all those qualities, but T2 is pretty much the golden standard.

Just look at the original Die Hard though, another one of the great Actioners of cinema. It had clever and memorable dialog without being hackneyed. It was well acted for an action flick, Alan Rickman portrayed one of the most memorable and likable action villains of the 80's. And all the events and set-pieces were grounded in the universe set up by the film. There were no gravity-defying vehicles in Die Hard.

And I do hold all films to a high standard. Why the hell shouldn't I? Why shouldn't everyone? I don't hold all films up to Lawrence of Arabia, that is dumb. But I hold my genre films up to the standards set in their respective genre's. What's the point of having critics otherwise? What's the point of trying to make good films otherwise? And I don't understand why certain genres (action) are allowed to disregard the standard's of the art of film as a medium. Why do we assume a summer action flick should be well-acted, have a reasonable script, concept or action scenes? Well, turns out I do know why. Because people don't give a shit anymore. People will see any slop, pay their money, and say "Oh yeah Epic Movie was a GREAT MOVIE, that guy was pretending to be Johnny Depp, LOLLerskates."

Oh and I'm seeing Die Hard 4 because of a little bet elevated_u2_fan and I have.

Let's see what else can I address in your post, Pla.

"Elitism "

Is that supposed to be a jab or something? I know I can be an elitist prick sometimes. I take pride in the fact every now and then. Maybe one of these days I'll help someone else find the real satisfaction that comes from the cinema. The appreciation for the art, and not just the cheap thrills and manipulated emotional responces.
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:47 PM   #56
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with a movie name like that, you just CAN'T FAIL
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:55 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lancemc
It's all completely impossible. How is that entertaining?
You have to wonder how Star Wars made so much money then. I mean a lightsaber, come on guys, a lightsaber. A flying personal vehicle. Half-machine people!

lol, you're expecting faaaaaar too much from Die Hard 4, and that's your problem with this whole shebang. You've already judged the whole movie based on the preview. Of course they are going to show all the mind-blowing shit in the trailer. They want you to come and see it! Just think about the rest of the movie with all the talking and reasoning...
You give off the vibe that you think the movie consists of the Die Hard 4 trailer lengthened to an hour and a half. You don't even know what the plot is at this point and you've already made claims to how awful it is!

Quote:
Originally posted by Lancemc
The appreciation for the art, and not just the cheap thrills and manipulated emotional responces.
Manipulated emotional responses is the definition of a movie.

And by the way, I'm wondering what sort of "art" Terminator 2 has to offer. You say this about it:

Quote:
Originally posted by Lancemc
It's well acted, well photographed, well-conceived, well-written, thought-provoking, and moving as well.
You'd have so much more credibility in this thread if you would just watch the damn movie before judging it. How do you know Die Hard 4 is lacking in any of these facets?
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Old 06-14-2007, 12:06 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by PlaTheGreat


You have to wonder how Star Wars made so much money then. I mean a lightsaber, come on guys, a lightsaber. A flying personal vehicle. Half-machine people!
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I felt like I had to respond to this anyway.

I need to draw attention to something Lance said that I feel gets to the heart of his argument:

Quote:
I like my mindless action when it's appropriate in context. I don't like it when it simply exists to defy natrual laws of the universe.
The key words here that pertain to your argument about Star Wars are 'appropriate in context' and 'the universe'. Star Wars takes place in a different universe. It is total fantasy. In that universe, there are people known as Jedi and Sith who have absurd vertical leaps, can pick things up just by looking at them, etc etc. People fly space ships from one planetary system to another to another. On and on and on. This is all acceptable because it is reality in the context of THAT universe.

Die Hard clearly takes place in OUR universe. An entirely different context. That is why your Star Wars argument is neither here nor there.
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Old 06-14-2007, 12:12 AM   #59
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I'm saying I'm betting it will. And I'm saying the majority of big action films in recent years have too.

And you still obviously don't understand what I mean with regards to plausibility in film. Star Wars, and all other fantasy films create their own unique universe with their own set of rules. In the Star Wars Universe, light can emit 5 feet and stop, and said light stops when meeting similar beams of light. It's also a universe where faster-than-light speed is attainable and commonplace. And they're created technology that allows vehicles to hover above the ground. And then there's the force with brings it's own unique physical rules. At the same time, planets still have gravity. You don't see Luke running around and leaping 20 feet in the air on Tatooine. (We'll ignore the atrocious super Jedi flying abilities in the prequel films )

What I'm talking about here, is films that play by their own rules. The Die Hard films are supposed to take place in real life here in the USA and play by real-life rules. If the Live Free and Die Hard trailers showed me all the best action, then I feel safe saying all the action in that film is bogus batha poodoo.

Thrilling action doesn't have to be (and shouldn't be) ludicrous action. Look at the Indiana Jones films. All the action in those films (outside of their unique religious and paranormal phenomina) is realistic yet exciting stuff. Indy throws real fists, gets real beat up, and it's more intense because of it. I'm not saying action films need to be realistic in regards to our own boring lives, but a good actioner should make the audience say "Woah, that was fucking incredible!" as opposed to "Woah, there's no way that would ever fucking happen". There's the crucial difference between good action and bad action. It has very little to do with the actual spectacle of it.

And I think we should expect more from our action flicks. You mention the "talking and reasoning". Yeah, I haven't seen it and I can't say for sure it's a load of shit, but I'm just betting it is, and I'm probably going to be right. But we'll have to wait and see for that. There's also a difference between film scripts that merely act as a vessel for the action and scripts that are captivating in their own rights, where the action merely serves to highten the impact of the plot (i.e. a film like Pirates of the Carribbean 2 as opposed to something like Jaws or The Last Crusade.)
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Old 06-14-2007, 12:13 AM   #60
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So as long as a movie is set in the here and now, everything has to be realistic????
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