ye olde englishe/european footballe threade

[1stepcloser]

my midfield would be something like this

young - barry - lampard - bentley

if hargreaves was fit i'd probably have put him in instead of barry.

young and bentley are both young, quick, skilful and have good crosses on them. david beckham only offers you one of those traits. i couldn't care less if becks makes it to 100 caps, i just want england to have real wingers who will cause the opposition full backs problems all match long.

we need to be looking to the future, not reverting to old formula's which haven't worked in the past and won't work in the future.

 

[Zoomerang96]

haven't worked in the past? finishing in the top eight of the world with these four men isn't a success? by english standards, it certainly is. why does england think they're the best? what have they ever done to allow them to think that save for a tournament in 66?

furthermore, that midfield only lost 1 out of 20-odd qualifiers played together and managed to win their qualifying group for the last 2 or 3 tournaments.

i'm sorry but you didn't even include gerrard in your midfield... but you DID include lampard. wasn't/isn't everyone calling for his head? granted, he's been in fine form for chelsea the past 6 or so games but your formation is DEFINITELY not what we need going into croatia if in fact that game's gonna mean anything at all.

 

[1stepcloser]

are you happy with getting the quarter finals each year then inevitably getting knocked out? i don't think england are the best but we have a set of players that could go all the way if we had a quality manager and were set up right. we were awful at last years world cup. we just about scraped past ecuador in the 2nd round. seeing a team like greece win the european championships shows what you can achieve with a little organization.

the problem is that lampard and gerrard are too individual. you need a hargreaves/barry type player in there to keep things simple and to make the tackles and track back.

reverting to this tried and tested and failed formula is tiresome.

 

[Aardvark747]

The partnership between Gerard and Barry seemed to me to make perfect sense. They played really well together and Stevie G seemed to play far more freely than anytime with Lampard. Looks like Barry won't be playing tonight but as long as he's back in the frame against Croatia I'll be happy...providing we still have something to play for of course!

Incidently, if anyone read Steven Howard's column in The Sun today I totally agree with him on the Mclaren issue. If the result 2moro night doesnt go in our favour, then he should go before the Croatia match and a stand-in for that final game should step in - someone like Trevor Brooking, one of the few respected men at the FA.

 

[Aardvark747]

Dull, meaningless game last night - the win meant nothing and we ended up paying the highest price for risking Owen, when he didnt even need to play. Fate really doesnt seem to be going in our favour, but then - we blew it at the end of the day. 0-0 with Macedonia at Old Trafford? That was just awful.

Anyway, i'll still be cheering for Israel tonight and keeping my fingers crossed - for Scotland too of course.

 

[1stepcloser]

i'm quietly confident israel might be able to get something against russia. although there's still part of me that doesn't want england to qualify just so we might be able to get a new manager who knows exactly what he's doing.

owen didn't need to play last night but mclaren played him anyway and he got injured. good forward thinking there from mclaren. talks about how the croatia game is huge and then goes and risks our best striker in a completely meaningless match. well done steve

 

[Zoomerang96]

are you happy with getting the quarter finals each year then inevitably getting knocked out? i don't think england are the best but we have a set of players that could go all the way if we had a quality manager and were set up right. we were awful at last years world cup. we just about scraped past ecuador in the 2nd round. seeing a team like greece win the european championships shows what you can achieve with a little organization.

the problem is that lampard and gerrard are too individual. you need a hargreaves/barry type player in there to keep things simple and to make the tackles and track back.

reverting to this tried and tested and failed formula is tiresome.

you didn't read a bloody thing i said about the "tried tested and failed formula" did you?

 

[Count Marzipan]

The problem is that Mclaren simply chooses the 'individuals' and attempts to create the team around them. If you look around the pitch Arsenal don't necessarily have the strongest starting eleven for each given position but when you put them together it clicks and they compliment eachother. I don't believe for one minute that Mclaren orchestrated the Barry/Gerrard pairing which has given us more options and balance in midfield. But it is an indication that this team needs to to mix things up a little to find a formula that works and not rely on the brand names all the time.

 

[1stepcloser]

i read everything you put and if scrapping our way to the quarter finals and then inevitably losing to a better organised team constitutes success for you then fine. getting to the quarter finals and losing does not constitute succes for me.

do you think australia and new zealand were happy with getting the quarters of the rugby world cup? of course they weren't. im not saying england are the footballing equivalent of them but we've got some very good players that aren't being set up right. i just wish we could take some wisdom from greece in 2004.

 

[Aardvark747]

Unlucky Scotland. 10 mins to go and it's Israel 1-1 with Russia!!

 

[Aardvark747]

2-1 Israel!! FUCKYEAH!!

 

[Aardvark747]

They've done us a HUGE favour - only a point needed on wednesday now. We cannot fuck it up.....!!!

 

[1stepcloser]

the significance of that last minute israel goal is massive, surely we can get a point at home? also croatia have nothing to play for.

thank you israel!

 

[Zoomerang96]

yeah, this is unbelievable. what a great weekend. saw the england friendly in vienna (first time i ever saw them play) and then went mental on the streets of bratislava with the rest of english/canadians when the final whistle blew on russia.

can't wait for wednesday!

 

[1stepcloser]

do canadians feel a strong affinity for the england team?

 

[Zoomerang96]

that's a tough question. i do, yes. but i don't know if i can answer that for the country... ha.

during the world cup last year there was a poll done amongst canadians to see who they were cheering for most. england came out on top.

canadian soccer is going nowhere, in terms of the national team. football is growing in the country, in fact the cbc says it's their second most "important" sport in terms of viewership.

i know amongst my friends back home in canada, they're all pretty much england fans first and foremost when it comes to football.

just a good fit, you know? hell, we had to sing god save the queen in school...
it only makes sense to cheer for england.

 

[1stepcloser]

you had to sing god save the queen at school? man i feel sorry for you, i never knew canadians had it that hard! i care for the queen about as much as i care for the political situation in lithuania...i.e. very little.

i can see the link though, britain certainly has a stronger bond with canada than with america. also i hear toronto fc have a very english feel about them, especially with the fans...

 

[1stepcloser]

oh and another great thing about tonights result, it means the FA can keep their dirty hands off martin o'neill for a good while yet

 

[Zoomerang96]

you had to sing god save the queen at school? man i feel sorry for you, i never knew canadians had it that hard! i care for the queen about as much as i care for the political situation in lithuania...i.e. very little.

i can see the link though, britain certainly has a stronger bond with canada than with america. also i hear toronto fc have a very english feel about them, especially with the fans...

yeah the difference between canada and america is pretty great. for a start, they revolted against british rule, canada never did. we're part of the commonwealth, they're not.

as for toronto fc, the games i've seen they have st. george's cross flying by the canadian flag on top of the stadium. not sure what that was about... the union jack flies all over canada, but st. george's cross isn't.

 

[Aardvark747]

oh and another great thing about tonights result, it means the FA can keep their dirty hands off martin o'neill for a good while yet

Alan Shearer is linked with the job in the News OfThe World today...!

 

[jimmmm]

They've done us a HUGE favour - only a point needed on wednesday now. We cannot fuck it up.....!!!

I wouldn't put money on it.

 

[jimmmm]

why does england think they're the best? what have they ever done to allow them to think that save for a tournament in 66?

God only knows, as you rightly ask Zoomerang, what the HELL have england done since '66 to justify any kind of confidence going into major tournaments, 1 semi app. in the world cup in '90, & likewise in the Euro's in '96, both in my opinion achieved with a great deal of fortune along the way in each tournament, & their performances in the other tournaments since '66, the 1's they have managed to qualify for have been at best mediocre, & at worst absolutely F***ING S***E!!!!
I've said for sometime now, IF england reach tournaments, a 1/4 final place is about their target, anything less should be judged as disappointing, anything more a bonus, THERE are FAR better teams in Europe, & Sth. America than england, & its about time the press & the public realised it!

 

[jimmmm]

Btw, just like to add, genuine commiserations to any Scots fans, after yesterdays defeat, at the start of these qualifiers I personally never gave the Jocks a cat in hells chance in such a group, but they've performed brilliantly throughout, & I genuinely felt fgor them watching the match, but, every cloud has a silver lining, & apparently on the strength of their performances in these quals. they'll be promoted to a second seed for future qualifying tournaments so they'll not have to be stuck in groups containing the likes of Italy & France for the World Cup qualifiers next year.

 

[1stepcloser]

will be interesting to see what formation mclaren goes for on wednesday. lots of people are saying he might go for 4-5-1 and pack the midfield with just crouch up front with lampard and gerrard running up to support him.

i'd rather see a 4-4-2 with lampard/gerrard playing alongside hargreaves/barry in the middle. if hargreaves is fit enough he should play because whilst barry is better technically, hargreaves is more defensive and that's what we'll probably need against a good side like croatia

 

[Zoomerang96]

england are pretty weak with a 4-5-1 (recent history would suggest), but i agree that it probably makes the most sense at this point given our lack of strikers at the moment.

i'd play the usual four with hargreaves as a holding midfielder.

plus, having five in the middle helps us better cope with a very (internationally) inexperienced back end.

 

[1stepcloser]

i'd also advise him not to play john terry either. the last thing we want is a guy who hasn't played for 6 weeks being rushed back into the team. added to the fact that terry is slow anyway, some of croatia's quicker players could expose him.

i just hope we try and attack and don't hold out for a draw as that runs the risk of conceding a late goal. we've got a good record at wembley though so it should be difficult for croatia even if we have a few key players out.

 

[Aardvark747]

Good on Mclaren for goin with Carson over Robinson. I reckon that's a great move and i've got faith in Carson that he'll do a good job at the back.

The fact that SWP is in for Beckham shouldnt have even been up for discussion in my book. Becks isn't 100% and put in a lacklustre display on friday in Austria. SWP will be up and down the right-hand touchline all game long - and he'll get you goals.

 

[Zoomerang96]

in this formation, and with becks' current fitness, there's no choice but to play swp.

however, that doesn't mean i like it. ask mourinho or grant what they think of swp if you don't believe me.

he'll run around out there, but i doubt he'll do a thing.

i imagine he'll be subbed around the 60-70th minute, especially if england are down or even level.

 

[1stepcloser]

i think eventually in the next 1-2 years we'll see david bentley being given more of a chance on the right for england. SWP is quicker than him but bentleys crossing is far superior. SWP can't cross to save his life. and they never criticise him about in the BBC studio cos his fuckin dad is always there as pundit.

anyway, i reckon tonights match will be crap but i'm also quite excited about it too. glad carson is in goal. the defence need somebody they can trust and carson hasn't let down villa once this season. you can't really say the same thing for robbo.

 

[Aardvark747]

Fuckin terrible. Fuckin awful. We were 2-2 and we fuckin blew it. Get the fuck out Mclaren. Why the fuck did u scarper down the tunnel at the end of the game?? U stood with with a fuckin umbrella thru the whole game when not even Prince William did that. Im sorry everyone, im pissed and pissed off. Bridge was awful, Carson is to blame for the first goal and im not sure Becks wouldve done anything if he'd started. I hate this. Im so fuckin annoyed I dont know what else to say.