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Old 05-28-2007, 04:06 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by VintagePunk


Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to imply that it's not customary to leave at least a 15% tip for wait staff, or even more if the service is good, in Canada (I know it differs in other parts of the world though). I was just a little surprised at the venom expressed by staff at that website I posted, where it sounds like some of them think of 15% or less as an insult, no matter the level of service offered.

And seriously, where DOES it stop? Say you're in a retail setting, where the staff make minimum wage. Are they given tips for good service? Why not, when everyone else seems to expect it? It just boggles my mind.
Most retail places pay above minimum wage.

http://www.wageaccess.com/ncs/retail.asp

And most places where tips are now being expected are paying less.
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Old 05-28-2007, 09:03 AM   #62
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I'm not sure where you live, but where I am, it's very, very common for retail workers to make minimum wage. And as for the rest, it's regulated by law here that everyone in the work force with the exception of wait staff and bartenders, by law, make at least minimum wage.
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Old 05-28-2007, 02:20 PM   #63
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That is a national average for the US.

As for why you don't tip retailers, for one, most places don't allow it. At the store I managed, it was a firabel offense. I believe the same goes for big chains like McDonald's and Burger King. Secondly, it isn't a very personalized service, unless (as someone already mentioned) it falls into the category of a personal shopper, tailor, etc. Hairdressers, bartenders, baristas, waiters, etc all provide some level of personal service. And they have to deal with a lot of complete fucks in the process, something a data entry clerk rarely, if ever, faces.

The issue here isn't really tipping, though, either. It is a matter of how people are compensated for their jobs. Average pay rates for some jobs are going down because tips are supposedly promised. At the coffee shop where I worked, starting pay with no experience was $7.00 an hour, $8.00 with prior experience. As the shop got busier, it went down to $6.50 + tips! Yes, it is a crappy situation. But the people who are working these jobs "expecting" tips don't really have much choice of unless they want to make a fraction of what they should.

Tipping was meant to show gratitude to begin with. If you feel like someone went above and beyond simply doing their job, why not tip? And if you really don't want to, but you still think someone did a good job, acknowledge that. Some of my favorite customers were people who never tipped, but they did treat me and my coworkers like we were human beings. A simple "thanks for doing such a great job" can go a long way, too, sometimes.

I can argue all day long about this, but at the end of the day, I agree with the negative side of it. Tip if you want, don't if you don't.
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Old 05-29-2007, 10:26 AM   #64
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According to US labor laws, employers of tipped employees can pay a lower minimum wage ($2.13 an hour or whatever it is now) only if the wage + tips equals the federal minimum wage.

If an employee's tips combined with the wage does not equal the federal minimum wage, the employer must make up the difference.
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Old 06-02-2007, 12:45 AM   #65
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holy moly! I knew that minimum wage in the states was shit, but not THAT shit!

By the way, most minimum wage jobs here in Australia, if you are over 18 start from about $15 an hour. Then $10 an hour days are long gone! MY friend works part time at Subway and their "minimum" wage is $19 an hour, supermarket worksers its $18.50 an hour, more if you are casual.
MCDonalads is $17.50 for over 18 and more for casual etc.

I just can't believe anyone would work for $5 an hour? I mean.... what CHEEK an employer has to pay his workers that much! Not even a pot scrubber or potato peeler would get paid that low here!
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Old 06-02-2007, 03:17 AM   #66
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OK, now I need to know; do you gys even have unions? What exactly do they do? Is anyone in government familiar with the Henderson Poverty Line, or similar?
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Old 06-02-2007, 04:24 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by dazzlingamy
holy moly! I knew that minimum wage in the states was shit, but not THAT shit!

By the way, most minimum wage jobs here in Australia, if you are over 18 start from about $15 an hour. Then $10 an hour days are long gone! MY friend works part time at Subway and their "minimum" wage is $19 an hour, supermarket worksers its $18.50 an hour, more if you are casual.
MCDonalads is $17.50 for over 18 and more for casual etc.

I just can't believe anyone would work for $5 an hour? I mean.... what CHEEK an employer has to pay his workers that much! Not even a pot scrubber or potato peeler would get paid that low here!
I remember a professor in college telling me Austrailia was the perfect place for college kids. He said the minimum wage was high, the "welfare" was relaxed, and there was a lot booze and pot... Of course he was somewhat tongue in cheek, but part of him was very serious.
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Old 06-02-2007, 04:58 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
OK, now I need to know; do you guys even have unions? What exactly do they do? Is anyone in government familiar with the Henderson Poverty Line, or similar?
In short only specialized fields of work have organized unions (i.e. Shipfitters, Electricians, Law Enforcement, Teachers, News Photographers, Actors, et cetera). Generally it is not a requirement to join these unions however there are some places of work who will not hire you if you are not a union member. There is no union for retail or the like (except for upper management possibly).

I'm sorry I cannot comment on the Henderson Poverty Line as I've never heard of such a thing.
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Old 06-02-2007, 04:59 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by dazzlingamy
holy moly! I knew that minimum wage in the states was shit, but not THAT shit!

By the way, most minimum wage jobs here in Australia, if you are over 18 start from about $15 an hour. Then $10 an hour days are long gone! MY friend works part time at Subway and their "minimum" wage is $19 an hour, supermarket worksers its $18.50 an hour, more if you are casual.
MCDonalads is $17.50 for over 18 and more for casual etc.

I just can't believe anyone would work for $5 an hour? I mean.... what CHEEK an employer has to pay his workers that much! Not even a pot scrubber or potato peeler would get paid that low here!
Even after getting raises every year for a few years I don't think I ever made that much at any job I worked. My first full time job I got paid $4.50 an hour and that was considered good since minimum wage at that time was $3.35. And I wouldn't have been hired without a degree.
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Old 06-02-2007, 05:08 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cleasai

There is no union for retail or the like (except for upper management possibly).
There are some unions that try to get retail workers and I know some Kroger (grocery) stores are unionised. My brother works at Home Depot and they (the managers) are told that if workers at a store vote to unionise the store manager and assistant managers (and maybe department managers also -- I'm not sure on that point) will be immediately fired and the store will be closed. They will pull out of an entire market before they will allow stores to unionise.
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Old 06-02-2007, 05:23 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra


There are some unions that try to get retail workers and I know some Kroger (grocery) stores are unionised. My brother works at Home Depot and they (the managers) are told that if workers at a store vote to unionise the store manager and assistant managers (and maybe department managers also -- I'm not sure on that point) will be immediately fired and the store will be closed. They will pull out of an entire market before they will allow stores to unionise.
Opps you are right. I forgot about Grocery Workers even after that major strike we had to go through for several months

Indra if that last part is true then they are breaking the law according to the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA). The NLRA says:

Quote:
Section 7: "Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representation of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining . . . ."

Section 8(a): "It shall be an unfair labor practice for an employer . . . to interfere with, restrain, or coerce employees in the exercise of the rights guaranteed in section 7. . . ."
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Old 06-02-2007, 06:01 AM   #72
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^
It sounded hinky to me, but I think the managers they say they would fire are exempt workers (doesn't that make a difference in stuff like this?) and as for closing the store they will just call it a change in their business strategy.

And most people are afraid to test it.
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Old 06-02-2007, 06:55 AM   #73
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Quote:
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Sheesh. I couldn't imagine tipping my hair stylist $20.00. That's insane. I give $5.00 - $10.00 at the most, and only if I'm extremely satisfied with what has been done.

I can't stand the North American obsession with tipping. Where I come from, IF you tip it's based purely on performance. People back home don't expect you to tip them. Here they do, and they don't just expect small tips either. Last semester, I was late for class and had missed my bus. It was the middle of winter so I wasn't exactly going to walk. I called a cab. I'm only a five minute drive from the university, so I only expected it to be about five or six bucks. The fare cost $8.50! I thought, screw that, I'm not giving a big tip, $8.50 is a ridiculous amount of money to pay for a five minute trip. That was my lunch money gone for the day. I gave the cab driver $10.00 and told him to keep the change, and he got SARCASTIC with me! 'Oh THANK YOU, how KIND of you,' he muttered under his breath. Of all the bloody nerve!
No offence, but screw that! I wouldn't have tipped him at all!
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Old 06-02-2007, 07:59 AM   #74
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OMG!........It works out to be around AUS$8 per hour and this is including tips! That's insane, i just would not work for that, plain and simple. i have to admit i always have assumed US wait staff prolly had made between $6-$8 per hour NOT INCLUDING tips, that's why it made sense to me that the income would be supplemented with tips!
Many restaurants in the major Australian cities are paying A$8 for dishwasher, and A$12+ for waiting staff.
At least these are the offerings I've seen in backbacker hostels etc.
Up to 45% is taxed, which you can reclaim when you leave or have left the country.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I remember a professor in college telling me Austrailia was the perfect place for college kids. He said the minimum wage was high, the "welfare" was relaxed, and there was a lot booze and pot... Of course he was somewhat tongue in cheek, but part of him was very serious.
Yes, but as a foreigner you are paying between A$6,000 and A$10,000 per semester, plus living costs, plus accomodation etc. and are only allowed to work 20 hours a week.
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Old 06-02-2007, 02:13 PM   #75
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Well, you are here to STUDY as opposed to working, so i guess those are the laws to live by. Most countries have the same rules when it comes to student visas, you come, you study, you graduate you go home and get a good job etc. Its not about making money, or trying for residency. I also think those job offers are cash in hand type jobs, flying under the radar etc.

For instance im moving to the uk for a few yeas, but can only work half the time on my visa and can't apply or accept permanent jobs, only temp, contract or casual due to my visa restrictions. For residents of a country, its a lot better, but then, it is their country!
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