y'all I left an awful tip for my hairstylist...

[ylimeU2]

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to imply that it's not customary to leave at least a 15% tip for wait staff, or even more if the service is good, in Canada (I know it differs in other parts of the world though). I was just a little surprised at the venom expressed by staff at that website I posted, where it sounds like some of them think of 15% or less as an insult, no matter the level of service offered.

And seriously, where DOES it stop? Say you're in a retail setting, where the staff make minimum wage. Are they given tips for good service? Why not, when everyone else seems to expect it? It just boggles my mind.

Most retail places pay above minimum wage.

http://www.wageaccess.com/ncs/retail.asp

And most places where tips are now being expected are paying less.

 

[VintagePunk]

I'm not sure where you live, but where I am, it's very, very common for retail workers to make minimum wage. And as for the rest, it's regulated by law here that everyone in the work force with the exception of wait staff and bartenders, by law, make at least minimum wage.

 

[ylimeU2]

That is a national average for the US.

As for why you don't tip retailers, for one, most places don't allow it. At the store I managed, it was a firabel offense. I believe the same goes for big chains like McDonald's and Burger King. Secondly, it isn't a very personalized service, unless (as someone already mentioned) it falls into the category of a personal shopper, tailor, etc. Hairdressers, bartenders, baristas, waiters, etc all provide some level of personal service. And they have to deal with a lot of complete fucks in the process, something a data entry clerk rarely, if ever, faces.

The issue here isn't really tipping, though, either. It is a matter of how people are compensated for their jobs. Average pay rates for some jobs are going down because tips are supposedly promised. At the coffee shop where I worked, starting pay with no experience was $7.00 an hour, $8.00 with prior experience. As the shop got busier, it went down to $6.50 + tips! Yes, it is a crappy situation. But the people who are working these jobs "expecting" tips don't really have much choice of unless they want to make a fraction of what they should.

Tipping was meant to show gratitude to begin with. If you feel like someone went above and beyond simply doing their job, why not tip? And if you really don't want to, but you still think someone did a good job, acknowledge that. Some of my favorite customers were people who never tipped, but they did treat me and my coworkers like we were human beings. A simple "thanks for doing such a great job" can go a long way, too, sometimes.

I can argue all day long about this, but at the end of the day, I agree with the negative side of it. Tip if you want, don't if you don't.

 

[JessicaAnn]

According to US labor laws, employers of tipped employees can pay a lower minimum wage ($2.13 an hour or whatever it is now) only if the wage + tips equals the federal minimum wage.

If an employee's tips combined with the wage does not equal the federal minimum wage, the employer must make up the difference.

 

[dazzlingamy]

holy moly! I knew that minimum wage in the states was shit, but not THAT shit!

By the way, most minimum wage jobs here in Australia, if you are over 18 start from about $15 an hour. Then $10 an hour days are long gone! MY friend works part time at Subway and their "minimum" wage is $19 an hour, supermarket worksers its $18.50 an hour, more if you are casual.
MCDonalads is $17.50 for over 18 and more for casual etc.

I just can't believe anyone would work for $5 an hour? I mean.... what CHEEK an employer has to pay his workers that much! Not even a pot scrubber or potato peeler would get paid that low here!

 

[Angela Harlem]

OK, now I need to know; do you gys even have unions? What exactly do they do? Is anyone in government familiar with the Henderson Poverty Line, or similar?

 

[BVS]

holy moly! I knew that minimum wage in the states was shit, but not THAT shit!

By the way, most minimum wage jobs here in Australia, if you are over 18 start from about $15 an hour. Then $10 an hour days are long gone! MY friend works part time at Subway and their "minimum" wage is $19 an hour, supermarket worksers its $18.50 an hour, more if you are casual.
MCDonalads is $17.50 for over 18 and more for casual etc.

I just can't believe anyone would work for $5 an hour? I mean.... what CHEEK an employer has to pay his workers that much! Not even a pot scrubber or potato peeler would get paid that low here!

I remember a professor in college telling me Austrailia was the perfect place for college kids. He said the minimum wage was high, the "welfare" was relaxed, and there was a lot booze and pot... Of course he was somewhat tongue in cheek, but part of him was very serious.

 

[Cleasai]

OK, now I need to know; do you guys even have unions? What exactly do they do? Is anyone in government familiar with the Henderson Poverty Line, or similar?

In short only specialized fields of work have organized unions (i.e. Shipfitters, Electricians, Law Enforcement, Teachers, News Photographers, Actors, et cetera). Generally it is not a requirement to join these unions however there are some places of work who will not hire you if you are not a union member. There is no union for retail or the like (except for upper management possibly).

I'm sorry I cannot comment on the Henderson Poverty Line as I've never heard of such a thing.

 

[indra]

holy moly! I knew that minimum wage in the states was shit, but not THAT shit!

By the way, most minimum wage jobs here in Australia, if you are over 18 start from about $15 an hour. Then $10 an hour days are long gone! MY friend works part time at Subway and their "minimum" wage is $19 an hour, supermarket worksers its $18.50 an hour, more if you are casual.
MCDonalads is $17.50 for over 18 and more for casual etc.

I just can't believe anyone would work for $5 an hour? I mean.... what CHEEK an employer has to pay his workers that much! Not even a pot scrubber or potato peeler would get paid that low here!

Even after getting raises every year for a few years I don't think I ever made that much at any job I worked. My first full time job I got paid $4.50 an hour and that was considered good since minimum wage at that time was $3.35. And I wouldn't have been hired without a degree.

 

[indra]

There is no union for retail or the like (except for upper management possibly).

There are some unions that try to get retail workers and I know some Kroger (grocery) stores are unionised. My brother works at Home Depot and they (the managers) are told that if workers at a store vote to unionise the store manager and assistant managers (and maybe department managers also -- I'm not sure on that point) will be immediately fired and the store will be closed. They will pull out of an entire market before they will allow stores to unionise.

 

[Cleasai]

There are some unions that try to get retail workers and I know some Kroger (grocery) stores are unionised. My brother works at Home Depot and they (the managers) are told that if workers at a store vote to unionise the store manager and assistant managers (and maybe department managers also -- I'm not sure on that point) will be immediately fired and the store will be closed. They will pull out of an entire market before they will allow stores to unionise.

Opps you are right. I forgot about Grocery Workers even after that major strike we had to go through for several months

Indra if that last part is true then they are breaking the law according to the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA). The NLRA says:

Section 7: "Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representation of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining . . . ."

Section 8(a): "It shall be an unfair labor practice for an employer . . . to interfere with, restrain, or coerce employees in the exercise of the rights guaranteed in section 7. . . ."

 

[indra]

^
It sounded hinky to me, but I think the managers they say they would fire are exempt workers (doesn't that make a difference in stuff like this?) and as for closing the store they will just call it a change in their business strategy.

And most people are afraid to test it.

 

[cobl04]

Sheesh. I couldn't imagine tipping my hair stylist $20.00. That's insane. I give $5.00 - $10.00 at the most, and only if I'm extremely satisfied with what has been done.

I can't stand the North American obsession with tipping. Where I come from, IF you tip it's based purely on performance. People back home don't expect you to tip them. Here they do, and they don't just expect small tips either. Last semester, I was late for class and had missed my bus. It was the middle of winter so I wasn't exactly going to walk. I called a cab. I'm only a five minute drive from the university, so I only expected it to be about five or six bucks. The fare cost $8.50! I thought, screw that, I'm not giving a big tip, $8.50 is a ridiculous amount of money to pay for a five minute trip. That was my lunch money gone for the day. I gave the cab driver $10.00 and told him to keep the change, and he got SARCASTIC with me! 'Oh THANK YOU, how KIND of you,' he muttered under his breath. Of all the bloody nerve!

No offence, but screw that! I wouldn't have tipped him at all!

 

[Vincent Vega]

OMG!........It works out to be around AUS$8 per hour and this is including tips! That's insane, i just would not work for that, plain and simple. i have to admit i always have assumed US wait staff prolly had made between $6-$8 per hour NOT INCLUDING tips, that's why it made sense to me that the income would be supplemented with tips!

Many restaurants in the major Australian cities are paying A$8 for dishwasher, and A$12+ for waiting staff.
At least these are the offerings I've seen in backbacker hostels etc.
Up to 45% is taxed, which you can reclaim when you leave or have left the country.

I remember a professor in college telling me Austrailia was the perfect place for college kids. He said the minimum wage was high, the "welfare" was relaxed, and there was a lot booze and pot... Of course he was somewhat tongue in cheek, but part of him was very serious.

Yes, but as a foreigner you are paying between A$6,000 and A$10,000 per semester, plus living costs, plus accomodation etc. and are only allowed to work 20 hours a week.

 

[dazzlingamy]

Well, you are here to STUDY as opposed to working, so i guess those are the laws to live by. Most countries have the same rules when it comes to student visas, you come, you study, you graduate you go home and get a good job etc. Its not about making money, or trying for residency. I also think those job offers are cash in hand type jobs, flying under the radar etc.

For instance im moving to the uk for a few yeas, but can only work half the time on my visa and can't apply or accept permanent jobs, only temp, contract or casual due to my visa restrictions. For residents of a country, its a lot better, but then, it is their country!

 

[Allanah]

Many thanks to the people who pointed out that wait staff and bartenders (in the U.S., anyway) are paid less than minimum wage -- it's $2.13 per hour. With tips, our income usually comes out to more than minimum wage. If it doesn't, your employer is required to pay you the difference. On a good night I'll make over $20 per hour, but I've worked in places where it was a lot less than that. The disparity seems huge when compared to, say, Australia, but isn't the cost of living much higher there?

And we do have to claim our tips as income, which is taxed. All of those taxes come out of that $2.13/hour paycheck, which means our paychecks are pretty much nonexistent. Mine for this week was for about six dollars. So there's a reason that wait staff in America has a sense of entitlement when it comes to tips: tips constitute our entire income. That sense of entitlement does bother me (you should take pride in your job, dammit, even if it sucks), but I do understand the cynicism that comes with the job, especially if you've been doing it for a long period of time. Customers -- not most of them, of course, but you'll get several of them in any given shift -- are incredibly rude, make outrageous/impossible requests, and will make bogus complaints in an effort to get free food or avoid leaving a tip. I can't tell you how many times I've had someone complain that their order was incorrect or cooked improperly after they've already eaten it, even though they'd tell me it was "fine" when I checked on them while they were eating. If the kitchen messes something up or takes a long time, my tips are affected even if I had nothing to do with the screw-up. I've been insulted, sworn at, and had men ask, "Are you on the menu?" I've been accused of being racist and unprofessional for making a joke about silverware.

If we were paid decently, your food/drinks would cost a lot more, but you wouldn't have to tip. It all evens out, I guess. And I realize I'm making waiting tables and bartending sound like slave labor when it isn't; I actually like my job, and I have a lot of great regular customers. But when I have a bad day, it's baaaaaad. The day that I get my degree and find a decently-paying job cannot come soon enough.

As for hairdressers, I usually leave around 20%, mainly because the girl who colors my hair does a fantastic job and partly because I know how badly it sucks to work for tips. And also because Revlon discontinued the one fail-safe haircolor-in-a-box that looked great on me, those bastards.

GibsonGirl: that taxi driver is an ass.

 

[partygirl2u]

Nothing burns my ass more than being left a poor tip! I'm a hair dresser and have been burned many a time. It's a slap in the face when you've spent hours with a client and you've done a great job (and the client tells you so) to find out at the end of the day that so in so left you $ 5 bucks for services that took you three hours to do! I work in a high end salon and if your going into the salon knowing that you should be prepared to tip at least 15-20%. Usually the sytlists only get 50% com with no hourly wage.

I have no problem with clients who are truely pleased with the services but forgot to tip and make up for it later .

It is the clients who know how much the services are going to be who think that by leaving you a buck they 're doing you a favor because they've paid x amount of dollars .

anyhoo,,,,,, be kind to your stylists they have scissors! lol

and if you don't want to tip big there is always FANTASTIC SAM's

 

[U2Girl1978]

holy moly! I knew that minimum wage in the states was shit, but not THAT shit!

By the way, most minimum wage jobs here in Australia, if you are over 18 start from about $15 an hour. Then $10 an hour days are long gone! MY friend works part time at Subway and their "minimum" wage is $19 an hour, supermarket worksers its $18.50 an hour, more if you are casual.
MCDonalads is $17.50 for over 18 and more for casual etc.

I think I know where I'll be moving to in the near future.

ETA: What is the exchange rate in US Dollars?

 

[dazzlingamy]

Well say the average is $15 an hour
or $19 for casual

15AUD= 12.50US

19AUD= 15.90US



but ig uess with tips you'd get up around there an hour?

 

[katiebu21]

Nothing burns my ass more than being left a poor tip! I'm a hair dresser and have been burned many a time. It's a slap in the face when you've spent hours with a client and you've done a great job (and the client tells you so) to find out at the end of the day that so in so left you $ 5 bucks for services that took you three hours to do! I work in a high end salon and if your going into the salon knowing that you should be prepared to tip at least 15-20%. Usually the sytlists only get 50% com with no hourly wage.

I have no problem with clients who are truely pleased with the services but forgot to tip and make up for it later .

It is the clients who know how much the services are going to be who think that by leaving you a buck they 're doing you a favor because they've paid x amount of dollars .

anyhoo,,,,,, be kind to your stylists they have scissors! lol

and if you don't want to tip big there is always FANTASTIC SAM's

i love this post, especially the last sentence...it's so true!

 

[vaz02]

Tipping is a stupid idea and YOU SHOULD NEVER FEEL PRESSURISED into giving one.

Their not providing you a service from the goodness of their heart, its their job. Believe it or not they get paid for doing it.

 

[BVS]

Believe it or not they get paid for doing it.

You obviously haven't read a single post in here.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Nothing burns my ass more than being left a poor tip! I'm a hair dresser and have been burned many a time. It's a slap in the face when you've spent hours with a client and you've done a great job (and the client tells you so) to find out at the end of the day that so in so left you $ 5 bucks for services that took you three hours to do! I work in a high end salon and if your going into the salon knowing that you should be prepared to tip at least 15-20%. Usually the sytlists only get 50% com with no hourly wage.

I have no problem with clients who are truely pleased with the services but forgot to tip and make up for it later .

It is the clients who know how much the services are going to be who think that by leaving you a buck they 're doing you a favor because they've paid x amount of dollars .

anyhoo,,,,,, be kind to your stylists they have scissors! lol

and if you don't want to tip big there is always FANTASTIC SAM's

The thing which pisses anti tipping folk off is that quite simply, the solution to low or outright poor wages is not to introduce an honour system of tipping. It's a scenario no one is happy with; the workers whine that people are not generous enough and the customer grits their teeth and curses. Don't waste your energy getting angry at your clients. It's not really the client's responsibility to fluff up your wages. The climate of tipping in the US is a result of shit awful laws protecting the wages of sevice industry staff.

 

[dazzlingamy]

amen!

i think tipping for EVERYTHING is bullshit, and all the guilt/annoyance/frustration that goes along with t from the tippee and the person getting tipped. Tipping should be voluntary for GOOD/GREAT service, and if you're shit, NO TIP FOR YOU! [/soup nazi]

I think people need to stop think of asking for more money for fair work as "greedy" or shameful, and fight for proper saleries. I mean $5 an hour? That is utter highway robbery!

 

[bonosloveslave]

I do it all the time, not out of being cheap but because I'm horrible at doing math in my head(especially when I've been at a bar). Restaurants I usually do well because I'll pull out my cell phone and use the calculator.

But if I'm at a bar or haircut etc and I screw up, I'll usually just tip extra next time I'm there and apologize.

I can understand math being a little tricky when you're drunk - but here is my relatively easy trick for calculating (for someone who is not great with doing math in your head) -

I generally leave a 20% tip as long as the service was reasonably good, more if it was great or the bill is quite small (like breakfast at a cheap diner). Most people can calculate 10% of a number very easily, you know just moving the decimal place one number to the left. To get a 20% tip, just think of what the 10% amount is and then double it (never hurts to round up to the next closest whole #):

Ex: Bill comes to $19.25

$19.25 is practically $20

10% of $20 is $2

Doubling $2 is $4

If you're a stickler for 15% that isn't all that hard either, just figure 10%, then add whatever 1/2 that amount is:

Bill is $28.97

$28.97 is basically $30

10% of $30 is $3

1/2 of $3.00 is $1.50

$3 + $1.50 = $4.50

 

[*browneyedgirl*]

that's the way i do it too bonosloveslave and the way i calculate sales at stores too

 

[BVS]

I can understand math being a little tricky when you're drunk - but here is my relatively easy trick for calculating (for someone who is not great with doing math in your head) -

I generally leave a 20% tip as long as the service was reasonably good, more if it was great or the bill is quite small (like breakfast at a cheap diner). Most people can calculate 10% of a number very easily, you know just moving the decimal place one number to the left. To get a 20% tip, just think of what the 10% amount is and then double it (never hurts to round up to the next closest whole #):

Ex: Bill comes to $19.25

$19.25 is practically $20

10% of $20 is $2

Doubling $2 is $4

If you're a stickler for 15% that isn't all that hard either, just figure 10%, then add whatever 1/2 that amount is:

Bill is $28.97

$28.97 is basically $30

10% of $30 is $3

1/2 of $3.00 is $1.50

$3 + $1.50 = $4.50

But remember not everything is taxed on the bill. A bottle of wine at a restaurant isn't taxable...